Staredit Network

From the way I see it, you're telling me to make maps, which I actually never stopped doing, I just didn't do it at SEN, and not under the Yoshi alias.

However that seems to be your generic insult to everybody who thinks open sourcing the community.

From what I can see, the focus of the rage on all sides of the argument is about the way LW handled the projects he was working on, and the way he was treated after he admitted to making OSMAP.

When I first saw the argument forming in the OSMAP news topic several days ago, I reminded myself of my stance on protection at the time, and that was opposition to it. I'm a believer in copyright laws, so I saw protection as a way to prevent theft on the lawless internet. But then I had to ask myself a question. Would I know nearly as much as I do today without the vast amount of information that SEN has provided? The answer is no. I'm very happy that a resource such as SEN was available to me so I could make the best maps I could.

Now I can only assume here, because I haven't been active on the internet for very long, but I imagine that the idea of a site such as this one was met with opposition back in the day. I'm sure there were some people who were opposed to the idea of anyone quickly learning techniques that took them a long time to discover and master, and that's understandable. But the fact is, if Starcraft is to survive and stay innovative for years to come, then knowledge must be passed on.

I think a lot of people are getting their feathers ruffled by seeing their former leader take the side of an unpopular argument. But I think I can see where Yoshi sympathizes with LW. For better or worse, LW was engineering a way for people to bypass secret keepers and learn more about maps. I think he was making OSMAP and trying to popularize the idea of a wiki for those purposes. And that was basically what Yoshi was doing years ago. They both seem to want to create a large archive of information that anyone can use and learn from. Maybe he sees LW's ideas as the next step beyond SEN.

We can all sit around and discuss a sort of "utopia" where everything can be shared and everyone is happy. But in order to try to achieve the best thing possible, a system must be engineered by which information is collected and archived for everyone to use. By nature, a system must include certain things and exclude certain things, and there will always be someone who is opposed to the way a system is constructed.

But I have to compare the newer ways of compiling starcraft info to the way that SEN was put together. I'm sure it had its detractors, but we can all agree that the mapmaking information at SEN has helped more people than its hurt, can't we?

In a few months or years, it won't matter who did what, or who got punished or praised for whatever. Most people in the future won't know or care. What will matter is that the information was passed on. So in my opinion, we should focus less on credit and more on making the newest information archive.

Why are we talking about OSMAP and LW here???

Wasnt this topic made to discuss the wiki, not LW & OSMAP?

Just when I had lost all hope in SEN, Doodan finally comes out and understands the issue.

Thank you my friend.

I think SEN's wiki fits quite well under the "system of information" you describe. Plus, no maps are directly involved... that's why I support the wiki but not open source mapping.

All it was supposed to support was UMS mapping techniques and Mapping tools.

Wow, you actually got that right. Good job, side changing canadian.

You do realize you're the one who came in here demanding Legacy get credit?

I assume you're both talking about the same thing. Yes I did. I wanted him to get credited by running the whole thing, or at least have moose ask him if he wants to run it since he pushed so hard for it. Neither of which, happened. I wanted him to be acknowledged for his hard work that hes done so far with the MMwiki but so far all I've seen SEN do is attempt to destroy it.

You guys are such idiots. You're completely changing the subject to focus on me and HOW I argue instead of my arguments. Cheeze did that to me on the OSmap debate, instead of attacking the issue he attacked me on a personal level (hense why I don't want to debate with him).

One thing I goofed up on in my prior post was saying I initially opposed protection, but I got my mords wixed. I meant to say I supported it at the time.

But anyways, I'm more interested in diffusing the argument than helping any of the sides win. If the people who have the ability to create the new way of indexing map information are too mad at eachother to work on anything constructive, then we all lose.

Legacy, you've been formally invited.

Agreed.

Bit too late for that.

Bingo.

So how're we gonna do it then? Port from the old one into the SEN one? Revert to the (U) one? Create a new wiki? Use my v4 db upgrade idea instead (*cough*)? v5?

Yes. It was faithless to have decided that without anyone else having a say. Whether OS is the right way to go or not.



...as for the wiki, I'm to guess we're to default here and simply port to the new one then?

All I know is things will be sweet will it's actually imported into SENv5.

I'm still for the Staredit.net Wiki, but I'm sure people could say SEN members were in control of the other one. Even are own tutorial manager, etc.

In this conflict, everyone loses.

If you could import a wiki's database, then there'd be no problem. But as far as I can tell, you can't... unless the process is done manually or something. And in that case, the longer we wait with the wiki, and the more it gets developed, the harder it'll be to port to v5.

And by the sound of things, we got some waiting to do yet for v5.

They should have locked this topic after they found out Legacy Weapon had wrote Map-Making Wiki by UnKnOwN Productions. Has Legacy Weapon become angry and is refusing to use the site because I haven't seen him recently?

Oh? I thought my point for that topic was people should have rights. When did I ever attack how you debated, beside the part where I said you repeated yourself?

Well if he's welcome to come back at least, accept a bit of indignity, but realize there's no real ill-will here, then that's at least a start. The ball's in his court now.


It might not be entirely 'fair', but in order to define 'fair' to begin with you need controls in place. LW lost his control here, so I can see where the decision comes from to take over control on moose/SEN's part.

Still, I think this coulda been handled a bit better. On both sides.

How many Legacy Weapon's do we have? The anser is one. We should maybe rethink are feelings about him.