Staredit Network

Each one is different, but one requires much more critical thinking, the same amount of creativity, and... why don't just you watch those VODs?

What the hell, do you not read anything, or are you just too ignorant to understand... you can throw triggers together and anyone will play them in ums, no matter how crappy they are (look at bounds for instance, and those 9999 kill unit maps...)

However, melee maps have to be so balanced and everything else, that it is so much harder to make a melee map that people will play...

You cant say which one is harder for real. To some, UMS might be harder. Others might think melee is harder. It just really depends on what type of person you are.

That's one of the smartest things I've heard all day.

So what if anyone will play a UMS map? That doesn't show which map is easier to make. You can't compare them and that's all there is to it.

Devilesk, I'm getting the feeling you haven't watched them...


Those games are ing gosu, how come you won't watch??

Actually I did watch that first one. Very good game, and map, but I doesn't change my view. Watching the beginning and the end was annoying though. Couldn't understand anything and at the end it was pretty drawn out.

I could say that bagging groceries is harder that making any kind of map making, because hypothetically you could be forced to fit 100 items into one bag while at the same time fighting off an army of ninjas.

However, since that scenario would never happen, you can't use it in an arguement. Just like your hypothetical map.


And if you are allowed to try and prove your point with ONE hypothetical map, why can't I use ONE actual promap to prove mine (I already tried doing that, but you took my comment out of context, as usual)?

ADDITION:
If watching the VOD doesn't change your view then you are just being stubborn. No UMS map ever made has had that much testing, has had that much scrutiny, and has put that much pressure on the map-maker.

so long as you guys are all thinking
and not flaming!

It's just a game being played on the map, what makes the game great is the players and how they are playing, not the map, mostly. It doesn't show that it was hard to make at all. All it shows is that a great game of melee can be played on it.

The hypothetical map isn't the whole point, the point is that Melee is one thing and UMS is that one thing plus more. But even still, melee is unique and different from UMS so you still can't argue it is better.



That doesn't work because ninja's won't always attack you while you are bagging groceries. It would work if say, I tried to make a UMS map fighting off ninjas. UMS alone has more possibilities than Melee mapmaking, but that doesn't show it is harder to make either, because you are doing two different things in UMS and Melee. Melee you are just making a map to support the actual game of Melee, UMS you are creating your own game and trying to do whatever you want for that. They don't relate much at all, and you can't say one is harder to make just because better games are played on it.

That isn't true. You make it seem like any map thrown together will have great games. That is 100% false. Maybe that's why you don't believe any of us; one half of making a map is making it enjoyable to play and observe. The other half is balance.



You said that the hypothetical map is "why UMS is harder", and that it "should be the end of the argument" (both real quotes from page 11 and 8 respectively). Don't deny it.




And not all UMS maps (read: zero) are like your hypothetical map.



Yes, I can. It's much easier to create a simple game (and all UMS games, even the biggest RPGs, are simple, don't kid yourself) than it is to create an enjoyable-to-play-and-observe, balanced map confined by the complicated and seemingly conflicting rules you must abide by.

You are assuming



What should be the end of the argument is you can't compare them.



Still a UMS map.



Yea I'm sure you would know what it takes to make a UMS map, since you have made so many and are the best at it.

Wow, melee argument pwx0red teh UMS side.
Sorry, i was just on Busharetehleet.tk

ill come up with a more detailed post later, im tired from reading 12 pages all at once...

Yeah, I mean, the melee side was so much less ignorant about UMS then the UMS side about melee.

Until ihatett came along... lol

Devilesk's last large post helped me more than him, so unless someone else comes in here and starts it back up again, I can finally leave in peace.


The one thing that makes me mad me is the fact he made the world "seem" from my quote in bold. I'm not sure why, because it doesn't add anything to his post, but it's dishonest none-the-less.

I was happy reading this, and yet pissed at the same time.

Continue on? Or stop and reach 1com?

"1com" won't be reached, but we should stop

Right now, it's already at it's "quiet periods." We must not wake the sleeping giants here

Agreed, lets stop. Although, i wish there were a way to savet his thread...

Let's NOT stop! I still think that UMS making is harder than Melee making..

What if I make a melee map, but then add triggers, It would no longer be a Melee map. Yet it would have been just as hard to make as a Melee map, if not harder..

UMS = Harder to make than Melee

Besides, UMS is for the more artistically gifted, it requires creativity to work with the little triggers that Blizzard has given us, it's a bit harder than programming if you think about it..

We've been over *everything* you have said. Try reading the entire thread (and then you will also see why we all want to stop).

Just because UMS has triggers doesnt mean it's harder than melee.


And for everyone who says melee is easier to make.... i challenge you guys to go make a good and pretty melee map since you claim it's so easy. And let's see if it's as easy as you think it is.

That has never been done, or at least that i've seen, if it's been done, please post the ums map here with a download attachment

The closest thing to what he is describing are the pro maps that show credits in UMS. But that obviously is not what was meant by UMS throughout the discussion (and on this website). Everyone in the world could add triggers like that.

We have been talking about RPGs, bounds, defense maps, etc. You just can't make a pro melee map, slap some triggers on it that show the credits when you are playing it in UMS, and call that a UMS map. It is still a normal map. Plus, devilesk corrected himself when I said that, so he didn't even mean it.

I repeat again that we should stop this discussion. In fact, while the argument is still quite, I am going to lock it.


*click*