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Staredit Network -> SCMDraft -> Compare SF and scmdraft
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SoftWarewolf on 2005-02-10 at 14:45:24
i mostly pointed out things i like better about starforge so it can be suggestions for improvement of SCMDraft
and i must be excused for my bad spelling..

Terrain editor:
scmdraft can do isometric terrain but it only has prebuilt blocks for terrain and sizes like 1x1 4x4 etc, while starforge can use terrain pieces of any size like 10x2 and while scmdraft needs to use that anoying terrain box, starforge has the basic terrains directly from the toolbar. and heres a HUGE feature only starforge has, you can select any size of square terrain on the map and create a preset, then you can place that everywhere like a doodod.

unit placing:
scmdraft has uneditable dropdown list with player 1-13 while starforge can make for any player (1-256)
the grid on scmdraft is defined as fine, large etc.. while starforge can make any custom grid f.ex 16x64
as for the unit settings, starforge can set the starting HP of an unit (for making funny colors etc) as for the build time i dont remember exactly but starfoge may set it to any number while scmdraft sets by SC seconds (so starforge may set a unit to build almost instantly without crashing)
anyhow, as for selecting multiple units at once, or a unit behind another scmdraft is more handy becouse it shows icon for units currently selected and on the properties you may select between them
however starforge has the option to stack units, and fine move them with arrow keys
on starforge unit properties you can set the unit number value (for placing all the rare unused units)

other:
starforge can type any number for player color, and has preview for first 17 or so
starforge has very nice text based trigger editor.
when i tried to change player on a sprite on scmdraft it crashed..
scmdraft has some better gui, like unit animations and debugging text
scmdraft can change terrain size
starforge lists bad and good sprites

no program can do this: (suggestions)
copy and paste units (make presets)
change placement ID of units (on maps with 4x\8x speed the units placed before the p14 unit will be frozen, make this placement value changable)
show trigger order ID (first trigger = 0 then 1,2 etc)

well thats what i could think of.. feel free to add some
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SI on 2005-02-10 at 16:33:00
ok, lets see...
I think the last released version of Scmdraft had the main terrain types in the tree already, I know the current one does. Also as you can see on the screenshots I released yesterday you can now enter any size brush, enough people asked so I added it.

0.5.0 has an option to create custom sized grids. Stacking works fine, you just need to repeatedly place instead of selecting count.
I'll see about adding the hitpoints thing and the exact build time, this should be easy.

I may enable all the illegal indexii in the next version (player 256, color 256, etc), via an option in the settings.
the scmdraft trigger editor will be redone later on, the current version is just a proof of concept editor.
that crash has been fixed, not sure whether 0.4.x has the fix yet or not.

I probably wont be labeling all the sprites as good or bad, since this depends on the version of SC. BW sprites will probably crash vanilla players, or 1.11 effects will not work for 1.05, etc.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by SoftWarewolf on 2005-02-10 at 17:22:54
ah.. i see it got 2 dropdown dialogs on the terrain thing
but can u write manualy? like click then write 17 instead of scrolling down to it

clicking repeatedly is a really bad alternative.. if you f.ex want 50 bunker replacements for each player it would take forever and probebly not get the exact count (bunker fire from nowhere, look poker tower def)

as for debugging of maps crashing or not. just assume poeple are running broodwar 1.11b (1.12 soon?) on windows XP.
but adding like star on crashing sprites is not work i would prioritize

and consider that unit order (#placement value) thing, would be nice with a editor that could handle it
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SI on 2005-02-10 at 18:35:01
QUOTE(SoftWarewolf @ Feb 10 2005, 05:22 PM)
ah.. i see it got 2 dropdown dialogs on the terrain thing
but can u write manualy? like click then write 17 instead of scrolling down to it

clicking repeatedly is a really bad alternative.. if you f.ex want 50 bunker replacements for each player it would take forever and probebly not get the exact count (bunker fire from nowhere, look poker tower def)

as for debugging of maps crashing or not. just assume poeple are running broodwar 1.11b (1.12 soon?) on windows XP.
but adding like star on crashing sprites is not work i would prioritize

and consider that unit order (#placement value) thing, would be nice with a editor that could handle it
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yeah you can also enter a number manually.

I'll see about a way to stack a selected unit... hmmm...

I dont plan on changing the sprite list, it would take forever to update the list and I would much rather spend the time coding.

Would it be enough to be able to say "this unit first" or "this unit last", thats alot easier to make than entering a position
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SoftWarewolf on 2005-02-11 at 03:26:44
sounds very nice smile.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.ZeALoT.oO on 2005-02-20 at 12:11:19
1 thing that annoyed me alot with scmdraft was: WHen im map making, im obviously going back and forth from the editor, to hosting my game, deep in concentration(sorta), and sometimes i forget to leave the game, and i do a bunch of modifications with the terrain etc in scmdraft, then I hit save and scmdraft Crashes because i was still in the game on battle.net. That was very annoying. With Starforge and Xtra editor, It would just say "unable... bla bla bla" so i would realize that i was still in the game, exit it, then save and not have lost all the progress. I Don't no if that was fixed or whatever, I was using Scmdraft2, Maybe theres a newer version with that fixed..
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SI on 2005-02-20 at 12:17:07
QUOTE(Oo.ZeALoT.oO @ Feb 20 2005, 12:11 PM)
1 thing that annoyed me alot with scmdraft was: WHen im map making, im obviously going back and forth from the editor, to hosting my game, deep in concentration(sorta), and sometimes i forget to leave the game, and i do a bunch of modifications with the terrain etc in scmdraft, then I hit save and scmdraft Crashes because i was still in the game on battle.net. That was very annoying. With Starforge and Xtra editor, It would just say "unable... bla bla bla" so i would realize that i was still in the game, exit it, then save and not have lost all the progress. I Don't no if that was fixed or whatever, I was using Scmdraft2, Maybe theres a newer version with that fixed..
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if it isn't fixed tell me, it should just be giving you an error that it cannot save
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TERRAINFIGHTER on 2005-02-22 at 14:07:49
Can you make it so that I can chose to place units for players 1-255 but don't include the players that have units that can crash StarCraft...
that would probably make Scmdraft a lot less glitchy then StarForge so more people would use Scmdraft 2
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SI on 2005-02-22 at 17:04:57
QUOTE(TERRAINFIGHTER @ Feb 22 2005, 02:07 PM)
Can you make it so that I can chose to place units for players 1-255 but don't include the players that have units that can crash StarCraft... 
that would probably make Scmdraft a lot less glitchy then StarForge so more people would use Scmdraft 2
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no I wont go and find out which player works and which one doesn't
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Haplo on 2005-02-22 at 20:00:28
First of all, that depends entirely on your operating system. Certain colors will crash windows 9x and none of the players above 12 work the same on mac and pc. Since there will be an SCMD2 for both, that would mean he'd have to make two lists of 256 or so players which have wide effects depending on what units you place. Considering that it might not work for certain people, there's really no point. What I suggest though, is to make the side bar's contents customizable. For instance store the data in a units.xml and a sprites.xml so that any idiot with a text editor can make their own custom tree view in the order that works best for them.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cnl.Fatso on 2005-02-22 at 22:25:28
As far as I can tell, I have not been able to access bridges as part of the Sprites/Doodad layer on either.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .Coko[CK] on 2005-02-23 at 12:59:01
That has been fixed in the new version. Just wait.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SI on 2005-02-23 at 13:55:38
QUOTE(Lt.Fatso @ Feb 22 2005, 10:25 PM)
As far as I can tell, I have not been able to access bridges as part of the Sprites/Doodad layer on either.
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they should be in doodads layer in all versions, ever since scmdraft 1.
I know it works in the public version since I used the bridges to test doodad code all the time back then.
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