Report, edit, etc...Posted by Drakiel on 2005-02-23 at 09:47:31
I know there's a list of SC LIMITATIONS and COMP AI in the tutorial database.
-What about strings?
I don't know much about strings, I just know something like... it's any text which a player/creator inputs into Staredit.
What exactly takes up ONE string? I'm making an RPG and would a string be...
Using seperate triggers for each line...
Trig1: display: "Hi guys lets go to the Inn."
Trig2: display: "No way, you scare off the girls"
Would that be two strings?
Where as - using the same trigger for two lines...
Trig1: display: "Lets get drunk." (line) "I have low tolerance."
Would that be ONE string?
Also COMMENTing triggers - Would ONE comment be ONE string? And would the length of the comment make any difference?
ALSO - Is there a character limit? I didn't notice one on the list.
I plan on having multiple quests, and I fear my character limit might break, if there is one. Also what is the corolation between characters and strings?
ALSO - I believe there is a trigger limit... I think that WAS on the list, what is it again? I know iwth a non-RPG I've already reached... I believe over 1,500 triggers or so.
ALSO - on a seperate note (to save a post).
This has been brought up a million times with no satisfactory resolution as far as I know... but how do I create intelligent comp AI?
If you notice all Starcraft Campaigns, comps have fifty million buildings starting off and STILL get wooped by noob players. Where as in MELEE games (1v1 comp-vs-human), comps OWN by comparision to triggered AI.
Is there any way to get Comp AI as intelligent as MELEE comp games, in a use map setting game (using triggers)?
Yes, I know about the different comp AI triggers, but they all suck compared to a melee game.
That's all, SORRY this is so long. Thanks in advance!
Recap: Strings? Char limit? Total Trigger limit? AI?
-What about strings?
I don't know much about strings, I just know something like... it's any text which a player/creator inputs into Staredit.
What exactly takes up ONE string? I'm making an RPG and would a string be...
Using seperate triggers for each line...
Trig1: display: "Hi guys lets go to the Inn."
Trig2: display: "No way, you scare off the girls"
Would that be two strings?
Where as - using the same trigger for two lines...
Trig1: display: "Lets get drunk." (line) "I have low tolerance."
Would that be ONE string?
Also COMMENTing triggers - Would ONE comment be ONE string? And would the length of the comment make any difference?
ALSO - Is there a character limit? I didn't notice one on the list.
I plan on having multiple quests, and I fear my character limit might break, if there is one. Also what is the corolation between characters and strings?
ALSO - I believe there is a trigger limit... I think that WAS on the list, what is it again? I know iwth a non-RPG I've already reached... I believe over 1,500 triggers or so.
ALSO - on a seperate note (to save a post).
This has been brought up a million times with no satisfactory resolution as far as I know... but how do I create intelligent comp AI?
If you notice all Starcraft Campaigns, comps have fifty million buildings starting off and STILL get wooped by noob players. Where as in MELEE games (1v1 comp-vs-human), comps OWN by comparision to triggered AI.
Is there any way to get Comp AI as intelligent as MELEE comp games, in a use map setting game (using triggers)?
Yes, I know about the different comp AI triggers, but they all suck compared to a melee game.
That's all, SORRY this is so long. Thanks in advance!
Recap: Strings? Char limit? Total Trigger limit? AI?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nozomu on 2005-02-23 at 09:59:06
You're correct about a string being any text a player inputs into a map. In addition to displayed text in triggers and comments, other things that take up a string are renamed units, switches, the name of sound files, leaderboard names, and anything I forgot to put in that list.
Each box where you input text is one string. You can have multiple lines in that one box and it will still only take up one string. However, using two triggers will use two strings. One comment is one string. The maximum number of strings you can have is 1024.
There is a character limit, but it is quite high. Maybe someone will correct me, but I think it's safe to assume that the limit is 65355. So you've got some leeway, even with multiple quests in an RPG.
There is no trigger limit. You can have as many triggers as you want. But not as many commented triggers as you want, as those use a string.
I don't know anything about melee AI, so you'll have to wait for somebody else to help you on that one.
Each box where you input text is one string. You can have multiple lines in that one box and it will still only take up one string. However, using two triggers will use two strings. One comment is one string. The maximum number of strings you can have is 1024.
There is a character limit, but it is quite high. Maybe someone will correct me, but I think it's safe to assume that the limit is 65355. So you've got some leeway, even with multiple quests in an RPG.
There is no trigger limit. You can have as many triggers as you want. But not as many commented triggers as you want, as those use a string.
I don't know anything about melee AI, so you'll have to wait for somebody else to help you on that one.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (U)Bolt_Head on 2005-02-23 at 11:26:34
Forces names, Map Title, Map description, Display text, transmissions, Leaderboard names, Comments, Locations, Changed unit names, Change switch names, and Wavs all take up one string each.
Also about your comments, If you have multiple comments that are the same they each take up a string. But if you make a comment and insert no text then no string will be used.
Also about your comments, If you have multiple comments that are the same they each take up a string. But if you make a comment and insert no text then no string will be used.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-02-23 at 12:40:07
QUOTE(Nozomu @ Feb 23 2005, 08:59 AM)
There is no trigger limit. You can have as many triggers as you want.
I don't know anything about melee AI, so you'll have to wait for somebody else to help you on that one.
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I don't know anything about melee AI, so you'll have to wait for somebody else to help you on that one.
[right][snapback]151509[/snapback][/right]
Wrong. There is a trigger limit, it's just so incocivably large that no one will ever reach it.
And melee AI runs off of the following AI scripts:
QUOTE
[Expansion] Terran Custom Level – The computer will build a town, expand that town, and attack any enemies that it encounters on the map.
[Expansion] Zerg Custom Level – The computer will build a town, expand that town, and attack any enemies that it encounters on the map.
[Expansion] Protoss Custom Level – The computer will build a town, expand that town, and attack any enemies that it encounters on the map.
[Expansion] Terran Campaign Easy – The computer will only build basic units (Goliaths, non-cloaking Wraiths, non siege-mode Tanks, etc.)
[Expansion] Terran Campaign Medium – The computer will build all basic units, and research the basic level technologies. Science vessels and “nukes” are not researched.
[Expansion] Terran Campaign Difficult – The computer will build all units with all research abilities.
[Expansion] Terran Campaign Insane – The computer will build all units and research abilities. After doing so, the computer will school you in the art of playing Starcraft.
[Expansion] Terran Campaign Area Town – The computer will harvest only, no attack. This is useful for “mining” bases.
[Expansion] Zerg Campaign Easy – The computer will build all basic units (Mutalisks, Zergling, etc.)
[Expansion] Zerg Campaign Medium – The computer will build all basic units, and research the basic level technologies. The computer will continue to research until the Ultralisk unit can be produced.
[Expansion] Zerg Campaign Difficult – The computer will build all units, and research all technologies.
[Expansion] Zerg Campaign Insane – The computer will build all units, and research all technologies. After doing so, the computer will school you in the art of playing Starcraft.
[Expansion] Zerg Campaign Area Town – The computer will harvest only, no attack. This is useful for “mining” bases.
[Expansion] Protoss Campaign Easy – The computer will build all basic units (until the Scout units can be produced.)
[Expansion] Protoss Campaign Medium – The computer will build all basic units, and research the basic technology tree (stopping at the Carrier units.)
[Expansion] Protoss Campaign Difficult – The computer will build all units, and research all technologies.
[Expansion] Protoss Campaign Insane – The computer will build all units, and research all technologies. After doing so, the computer will school you in the art of playing Starcraft.
[Expansion] Protoss Campaign Area Town – The computer will harvest only, no attack. This is useful for “mining” bases.
[Expansion] Zerg Custom Level – The computer will build a town, expand that town, and attack any enemies that it encounters on the map.
[Expansion] Protoss Custom Level – The computer will build a town, expand that town, and attack any enemies that it encounters on the map.
[Expansion] Terran Campaign Easy – The computer will only build basic units (Goliaths, non-cloaking Wraiths, non siege-mode Tanks, etc.)
[Expansion] Terran Campaign Medium – The computer will build all basic units, and research the basic level technologies. Science vessels and “nukes” are not researched.
[Expansion] Terran Campaign Difficult – The computer will build all units with all research abilities.
[Expansion] Terran Campaign Insane – The computer will build all units and research abilities. After doing so, the computer will school you in the art of playing Starcraft.
[Expansion] Terran Campaign Area Town – The computer will harvest only, no attack. This is useful for “mining” bases.
[Expansion] Zerg Campaign Easy – The computer will build all basic units (Mutalisks, Zergling, etc.)
[Expansion] Zerg Campaign Medium – The computer will build all basic units, and research the basic level technologies. The computer will continue to research until the Ultralisk unit can be produced.
[Expansion] Zerg Campaign Difficult – The computer will build all units, and research all technologies.
[Expansion] Zerg Campaign Insane – The computer will build all units, and research all technologies. After doing so, the computer will school you in the art of playing Starcraft.
[Expansion] Zerg Campaign Area Town – The computer will harvest only, no attack. This is useful for “mining” bases.
[Expansion] Protoss Campaign Easy – The computer will build all basic units (until the Scout units can be produced.)
[Expansion] Protoss Campaign Medium – The computer will build all basic units, and research the basic technology tree (stopping at the Carrier units.)
[Expansion] Protoss Campaign Difficult – The computer will build all units, and research all technologies.
[Expansion] Protoss Campaign Insane – The computer will build all units, and research all technologies. After doing so, the computer will school you in the art of playing Starcraft.
[Expansion] Protoss Campaign Area Town – The computer will harvest only, no attack. This is useful for “mining” bases.
Or in other words, the only AI scripts Blizzards editor will allow you to run.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-02-23 at 14:39:07
QUOTE(chuiu_os @ Feb 23 2005, 12:40 PM)
There is a trigger limit, it's just so incocivably large that no one will ever reach it.
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It's not because it's long that nobody will reach it, it's because your computer will lag out and crash first
I tried to copy triggers over and over again and in the end my computer just stopped and I had to end task SCXE.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Drakiel on 2005-02-23 at 15:57:24
ALright thanks so much guys, All questions were answered satisfactorily...
Except the AI.
I already know about the Starcraft AI Scripts. Still, none compare to the AI melee comp games have, correct?
Except the AI.
I already know about the Starcraft AI Scripts. Still, none compare to the AI melee comp games have, correct?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Heimdal on 2005-02-24 at 00:45:27
I think this is worth pointing out...
The AI scripts are MUCH different when playing on b.net and when playing in single player. I found this out when making a map to force a computer player to upgrade with AI scripts. It would upgrade only on b.net, not single player (offline).
Theoretically the trigger limit would be around 1.8 million.
The string limit is breakable, but no editor exists that can do it yet. The character limit (65535 - 2 * (n + 1), where n is the number of strings) is not breakable. Every letter, color or alignment mark, tab, space, etc is one character. Line breaks are two characters. Every string has a null character at the end, so the string "hello" takes 6 characters.
The character limit would be very difficult to reach unless you have some serious novels in your triggers. At the standard of 1024 strings, you have an average of 62 or so characters per string. That doesn't sound like a lot, but let's make some reasonable assumptions. Location and switch names are probably not more than 16 characters long. If you use up all of these (unlikley), here's what you have left to work with:
512 strings, with an average of about 115 characters per string.
The AI scripts are MUCH different when playing on b.net and when playing in single player. I found this out when making a map to force a computer player to upgrade with AI scripts. It would upgrade only on b.net, not single player (offline).
Theoretically the trigger limit would be around 1.8 million.
The string limit is breakable, but no editor exists that can do it yet. The character limit (65535 - 2 * (n + 1), where n is the number of strings) is not breakable. Every letter, color or alignment mark, tab, space, etc is one character. Line breaks are two characters. Every string has a null character at the end, so the string "hello" takes 6 characters.
The character limit would be very difficult to reach unless you have some serious novels in your triggers. At the standard of 1024 strings, you have an average of 62 or so characters per string. That doesn't sound like a lot, but let's make some reasonable assumptions. Location and switch names are probably not more than 16 characters long. If you use up all of these (unlikley), here's what you have left to work with:
512 strings, with an average of about 115 characters per string.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Drakiel on 2005-02-24 at 02:00:32
Thanks Guys, Heimdal is a freakin' genious.
STILL no resolution on intelligent comp AI though ehh?
I've said this on another similar post about AI that was never resolved... But there's GOTTA be an intelligent AI somewhere that doesn't require a lot of work.
Best AI I've seen is BoTD's Squad Support, but after much playing, it appears he just Creates units for the comp within the base... something like
If player brings 0 units to terran base (player can't see).
If elapse time is at least 300 seconds.
If comp has at least 1 barracks
Create 10 marines, Create 5 firebats, Create 4 medics at LocBarracks.
Something like that... or...
If player brings 0 units to terran base (player can't see).
If comp has at least 1 command center
Comp commands at most 5 scv's at terran base (players wiped out harvesters)
Create 12 scv's at LocHarvest
Reset AI
Any way NOT to use something like that?
STILL no resolution on intelligent comp AI though ehh?
I've said this on another similar post about AI that was never resolved... But there's GOTTA be an intelligent AI somewhere that doesn't require a lot of work.
Best AI I've seen is BoTD's Squad Support, but after much playing, it appears he just Creates units for the comp within the base... something like
If player brings 0 units to terran base (player can't see).
If elapse time is at least 300 seconds.
If comp has at least 1 barracks
Create 10 marines, Create 5 firebats, Create 4 medics at LocBarracks.
Something like that... or...
If player brings 0 units to terran base (player can't see).
If comp has at least 1 command center
Comp commands at most 5 scv's at terran base (players wiped out harvesters)
Create 12 scv's at LocHarvest
Reset AI
Any way NOT to use something like that?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by sckor on 2005-02-24 at 04:24:36
I'm not sure, but use the applicable race "custom" Ai. That's what I'm thinking.
so if the computer is terran,
terran custom level ai.
but I'm not so sure..
so if the computer is terran,
terran custom level ai.
but I'm not so sure..
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Basan on 2005-02-25 at 09:30:18
"Custom level" AI triggers for all races behave better in game if you don't provide'em (computer players) early resources by triggers, such as in the game campaigns. (Those are 'seenable' if you follow this tutorial in case of doubts.) 
If you start with similar ammounts on resources as them, it should work fine.
If you start with similar ammounts on resources as them, it should work fine.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by M_s4 on 2005-02-27 at 17:11:21
Will default unit/building names take up strings too? 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-02-27 at 17:22:31
Nope, those are in the MPQ files.