Report, edit, etc...Posted by bajadulce on 2005-03-13 at 18:52:40
Currently when I want to watch 2 computers fight each other, I create a multiplayer top vs bottom game and build an elementary structure in my computer ally’s base etc. This works fine, but an observer map would be much easier and better suited for my testing needs. I can make this for multiplayer, but how hard will this be for single-player comps? And any suggestions?
*************************** UPDATE: March 19th
The map was the easy part, the triggers were a bit complicated, but I finally achieved what I set out to do; Create an observer map where 3 friends could challenge each others “custom” Ai’s. This particular map allows all possible combinations of matchups involving Terran and Protoss. Also all 4 “starting positions” can be chosen. This seemed a rather complicated trigger system for my first ever UMS, but I had a great time “learning” a bit how to code w/ Staredit and I hope to make some real “maps” soon.
Unfortunately, despite all the hard work it appears custom Ai’s are worthless on UMS maps? and it looks like the only way to test our Ai’s is with a Top vs Bottom Multiplayer game after all.
For some reason Ai’s running in UMS mode have a hard time with the “attack commands” within their scripts? The computer’s build orders are to the letter, just the attacks aren’t acting as they should? In some instances it’s a minor difference, but in others it is so dramatic that the comp is almost paralyized. If you watch for instance you watch a standard “custom expansion terran vs custom expansion protoss” (choose the marine and probe in this map) you might have noticed how strange these attack waves behave. This is not how they behave in melee games as you know from experience playing them. I thought that because these are actually “melee” scripts and their “opening” code is written a bit differently that was the problem when run in UMS, but it appears even “campaign” scripts behave this way. If you watch “custom expansion insane” matchups (pick the archon and vulturef fot this map) you will see the 1st attack wave of marines and zealots also not doing as they were written.
If you were to run this script in “melee” mode (extract it form aiscript.bin and relabel it as custom expansion using SCAIEdit III) you would see how this script is supposed to run. The zealots and marines should group together and then attack, but instead they wander around confused not knowing whether to go forward with attack or return home. Sometimes they never even get out of the base as they are so mixed up.
I have posted this update and example because surely this topic has come up before and someone knows why this is happening and if it can be corrected?
Ok sorry for the novel…. Jeez!
Here’s the map that I eventually came up with if anyone is curious about its construction and a demonstration of this problem. [attachmentid=6534] note: this map does not contain our "custom Ai's", because you would need a modified stat_txt.tbl and aiscript.bin for this to work. "standard" blizzard scripts are used just as an example.
while more than 2 comps can be "activated" it is meant to play 1v1 so it is best to only pick 2 units for 2 beacons. Be sure to leave the unit on the beacon otherwise the Ai script won't be activated. I will probably change this trigger if I can figure out "problem"
*************************** UPDATE: March 19th
The map was the easy part, the triggers were a bit complicated, but I finally achieved what I set out to do; Create an observer map where 3 friends could challenge each others “custom” Ai’s. This particular map allows all possible combinations of matchups involving Terran and Protoss. Also all 4 “starting positions” can be chosen. This seemed a rather complicated trigger system for my first ever UMS, but I had a great time “learning” a bit how to code w/ Staredit and I hope to make some real “maps” soon.
Unfortunately, despite all the hard work it appears custom Ai’s are worthless on UMS maps? and it looks like the only way to test our Ai’s is with a Top vs Bottom Multiplayer game after all.
For some reason Ai’s running in UMS mode have a hard time with the “attack commands” within their scripts? The computer’s build orders are to the letter, just the attacks aren’t acting as they should? In some instances it’s a minor difference, but in others it is so dramatic that the comp is almost paralyized. If you watch for instance you watch a standard “custom expansion terran vs custom expansion protoss” (choose the marine and probe in this map) you might have noticed how strange these attack waves behave. This is not how they behave in melee games as you know from experience playing them. I thought that because these are actually “melee” scripts and their “opening” code is written a bit differently that was the problem when run in UMS, but it appears even “campaign” scripts behave this way. If you watch “custom expansion insane” matchups (pick the archon and vulturef fot this map) you will see the 1st attack wave of marines and zealots also not doing as they were written.
If you were to run this script in “melee” mode (extract it form aiscript.bin and relabel it as custom expansion using SCAIEdit III) you would see how this script is supposed to run. The zealots and marines should group together and then attack, but instead they wander around confused not knowing whether to go forward with attack or return home. Sometimes they never even get out of the base as they are so mixed up.
I have posted this update and example because surely this topic has come up before and someone knows why this is happening and if it can be corrected?
Ok sorry for the novel…. Jeez!
Here’s the map that I eventually came up with if anyone is curious about its construction and a demonstration of this problem. [attachmentid=6534] note: this map does not contain our "custom Ai's", because you would need a modified stat_txt.tbl and aiscript.bin for this to work. "standard" blizzard scripts are used just as an example.
while more than 2 comps can be "activated" it is meant to play 1v1 so it is best to only pick 2 units for 2 beacons. Be sure to leave the unit on the beacon otherwise the Ai script won't be activated. I will probably change this trigger if I can figure out "problem"
Report, edit, etc...Posted by notnuclearrabbit on 2005-03-13 at 19:41:51
[center]An easy one!
Alright, you don't even need to own any units yourself. You just need to make yourself exempt from Victory/Defeat triggers, and give yourself vision with the computers. Very easy to do...[/center]
Alright, you don't even need to own any units yourself. You just need to make yourself exempt from Victory/Defeat triggers, and give yourself vision with the computers. Very easy to do...[/center]
Report, edit, etc...Posted by sckor on 2005-03-14 at 07:56:58
In addition to Nucclear Rabbit, you need to use AI scripts for the computer to do their thing as this game is going to be UMS. Just set it to Zerg/Terran/Protoss custom level.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by bajadulce on 2005-03-16 at 05:47:28
Thanx for responding to post
I am trying to have an Ai contest w/ some friends and we needed a UMS map that could load all 3 of our different Ai's. Now however I seem to be having 2 problems;
1. Can't seem to figure out the victory trigger.
2. I couldn't get Staredit to list our scripts in the pulldown menu "run Ai at location"
So I just replaced the 3 different campaign scripts easy, medium, and hard with our own versions into aiscript.bin, but they don't seem to be running quite right? This is the first time I've tried to run ai scripts in a UMS. I've made at least a dozen Ai loaders that automatically replace the standard "melee" Ai for melee games, without any problems, but not in a UMS.
Here's the map for kicks. Probably the first question is very easily fixed. The second question maybe has to do w/ stat_txt.tbl?
check 1st post for updated map and latest findings
I am trying to have an Ai contest w/ some friends and we needed a UMS map that could load all 3 of our different Ai's. Now however I seem to be having 2 problems;
1. Can't seem to figure out the victory trigger.
2. I couldn't get Staredit to list our scripts in the pulldown menu "run Ai at location"
So I just replaced the 3 different campaign scripts easy, medium, and hard with our own versions into aiscript.bin, but they don't seem to be running quite right? This is the first time I've tried to run ai scripts in a UMS. I've made at least a dozen Ai loaders that automatically replace the standard "melee" Ai for melee games, without any problems, but not in a UMS.
Here's the map for kicks. Probably the first question is very easily fixed. The second question maybe has to do w/ stat_txt.tbl?
check 1st post for updated map and latest findings
Report, edit, etc...Posted by sckor on 2005-03-16 at 07:53:57
I know nothing of Ai, programming such..
Also, victory. Just simply put the trigger
Also, your ai scripts show up on my comp...
Here is what you do.
And you do that for each race, only changing the variable AI Script. Thus, if the computer is protoss, it will center AI on the Nexus, and Execute Protoss custom level.
Just change Hatchery ==> Nexus.
Zerg Custom Level script ==> Protoss custom Level
Those are just the ones you need to change.
Also, victory. Just simply put the trigger
| Trigger |
| Description: |
| Defeat |
| Players: |
| ¤ Computer Players |
| Conditions: |
| ¤ Current player commands at most 0 buildings |
| ¤ Allies command at most 0 buildings |
| Actions: |
| ¤ End scenario in defeat for current player |
| Trigger |
| Description: |
| Victory |
| Players: |
| ¤ Computer players |
| Conditions: |
| ¤ Foes command at most 0 buildings |
| Actions: |
| ¤ End scenario in victory for currnet player |
| ¤ Set Swtich 1 |
| Trigger |
| Description: |
| Victory for Observers |
| Players: |
| ¤ Human Players[/p] |
| Conditions: |
| ¤ Switch 1 is set |
| Actions: |
| ¤ Victory/draw/defeat (whatever you want) for current player |
Also, your ai scripts show up on my comp...
Here is what you do.
| Trigger |
| Description: |
| Run Ai Scripts |
| Players: |
| ¤ Computer Players |
| Conditions: |
| ¤ Current player commands at least one hatchery |
| ¤ Current player suffers at most 0 deaths for Protoss Tassadar (hero) |
| Actions: |
| ¤ Center location labeled "AI" on hatchery owned by current player |
| ¤ Execute "Zerg custom level" for at AI |
| ¤ Set deaths for current player, Add one for Protoss Tasadar (hero) |
| ¤ Preserve Trigger |
And you do that for each race, only changing the variable AI Script. Thus, if the computer is protoss, it will center AI on the Nexus, and Execute Protoss custom level.
Just change Hatchery ==> Nexus.
Zerg Custom Level script ==> Protoss custom Level
Those are just the ones you need to change.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by bajadulce on 2005-03-17 at 08:25:46
Thnx for all the info. I'm going to copy page and try and digest and test all that you wrote offline.
I did figure how to get our "personal heading" scripts (not the ones included in this map) to list in staredit as I did need to include the stat_txt.tbl that was compiled along with aiscript.bin. And have since changed the script headings.
All the problems have been solved except for one last MAJOR MAJOR one. Scripts ran in UMS's seem to act totally different than in Melee mode? The build orders are identical, but the attack_commands are totally out of wack? Mostly the Ai in the Ums stutters and acts confused? The same scripts perform flawlessly in "melee" form?
It's probably something real obvious that I've triggered wrong, or maybe has to do with location layers? I made a small map w/ the minimal amount of triggers needed to maybe demonstrate what I'm talking about. (The luna Ai map has a much more complicated trigger system but basically same)
If you watch the UMS replay, you will see how the 1st attacks are really screwed up as opposed to the Melee replay tho both use the same script. The build orders are identical and seem to be working fine, just the attacks are really screwed up. This is the same problem I'm experiencing with our custom Ai's in the Luna map I made?
While I realize this is sort of "mod" related, there are really no "mods" involved in this problem. Maybe somebody has experienced this before?
Here are the 2 replays and the small testmap if anyone is curious in a demonstration of the difference or can spot any obvious flaw in triggers?
replay 1 [attachmentid=6404]
replay 2 [attachmentid=6405]
map [attachmentid=6406]
Thnx again.
I did figure how to get our "personal heading" scripts (not the ones included in this map) to list in staredit as I did need to include the stat_txt.tbl that was compiled along with aiscript.bin. And have since changed the script headings.
All the problems have been solved except for one last MAJOR MAJOR one. Scripts ran in UMS's seem to act totally different than in Melee mode? The build orders are identical, but the attack_commands are totally out of wack? Mostly the Ai in the Ums stutters and acts confused? The same scripts perform flawlessly in "melee" form?
It's probably something real obvious that I've triggered wrong, or maybe has to do with location layers? I made a small map w/ the minimal amount of triggers needed to maybe demonstrate what I'm talking about. (The luna Ai map has a much more complicated trigger system but basically same)
If you watch the UMS replay, you will see how the 1st attacks are really screwed up as opposed to the Melee replay tho both use the same script. The build orders are identical and seem to be working fine, just the attacks are really screwed up. This is the same problem I'm experiencing with our custom Ai's in the Luna map I made?
While I realize this is sort of "mod" related, there are really no "mods" involved in this problem. Maybe somebody has experienced this before?
Here are the 2 replays and the small testmap if anyone is curious in a demonstration of the difference or can spot any obvious flaw in triggers?
replay 1 [attachmentid=6404]
replay 2 [attachmentid=6405]
map [attachmentid=6406]
Thnx again.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by RexyRex on 2005-03-17 at 09:03:25
I can't really help you on this one. But I can tell you who can.
PM AqoTrooper. To do that, click right here.
PM AqoTrooper. To do that, click right here.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BSTRhino on 2005-03-22 at 00:23:19
Hi baldajuice,
There's no reason why the AI scripts would run differently in melee than from UMS, Melee has triggers and pretty much is just a special case of UMS. Perhaps make sure the locations you use for "Run AI Script at Location" are correctly positioned over the Command Center/Nexus/Hive. Perhaps you have turned on "Random Start Location" and that could mean the locations for the AI scripts don't match the actual start locations.
As for getting your AI Script's name into the editor, just use MPQDraft and select StarCraft Campaign Editor as the program you want to patch.
I hope this helps,
BSTRhino
There's no reason why the AI scripts would run differently in melee than from UMS, Melee has triggers and pretty much is just a special case of UMS. Perhaps make sure the locations you use for "Run AI Script at Location" are correctly positioned over the Command Center/Nexus/Hive. Perhaps you have turned on "Random Start Location" and that could mean the locations for the AI scripts don't match the actual start locations.
As for getting your AI Script's name into the editor, just use MPQDraft and select StarCraft Campaign Editor as the program you want to patch.
I hope this helps,
BSTRhino
Report, edit, etc...Posted by bajadulce on 2005-03-23 at 01:10:02
Thnx BSHTIRhino
I have double checked to make sure I didn't screw up some of the things you mentioned, but It appears I haven't. I thankyou tho for your time.
Also since I have conquered the "single-player observation map" I set out to build and have included it, this topic can be closed as far as this "map" goes. So if somebody with "Uber" power wants to close this topic please feel free to do so.
I have started a new topic that deals with the "location placement" for "Ai's ran at location". I direct you to this topic if you are intersted in further discussion http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=12737
I have double checked to make sure I didn't screw up some of the things you mentioned, but It appears I haven't. I thankyou tho for your time.
Also since I have conquered the "single-player observation map" I set out to build and have included it, this topic can be closed as far as this "map" goes. So if somebody with "Uber" power wants to close this topic please feel free to do so.
I have started a new topic that deals with the "location placement" for "Ai's ran at location". I direct you to this topic if you are intersted in further discussion http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=12737