Staredit Network

My first attempt @ 2-players map
96x128
TvB

I think it turned out well. There's enough ressources for a decent game (though there aren't too many ressource NODES, but rather alot of minerals at 1 precise spot). Both starting locations have a rather big choke point; I tried to make it so not only siege tanks could protect well there, but cannons and sunkens (or other units) too.

As a counter to this, you can also enter the 2 bases with 2 ramps at the opposite side of the map. It's a rather small passageway, but it'll do for "surprise" attacks. This way, I hope people won't have a too hard time entering the ennemy's base, if the guy is protecting his main choke point like a madman, with static deffence everywhere.

Middle area is open for battles.

Balance issues, comments, ideas welcome.


Completed map:
http://www.staredit.net/index.php?download=2582

I like this map a lot, I will move it to the Pro section of the DLDB when I have the chance.

I especially like the fact that there are 2 entrances to each main, that way you can't turtle quite easily and you'll have to think twice about placing a bunker. Even better is the fact that you can make 2 simultaneous attacks on the enemy from different sides.

I'd also ahev to say that there is a ratehr small amount of resources int he map.

Damn chris how do you do it

Thanks . I usually put alot of ressources on my maps, and block the middle to add more of 'em. But people kept saying there wasn't enough space to battle throught the land (they're right most of the time anyway), so I tried this.

Don't move it right away, I'll see comments first, and if I actually have to add balance changes. I'll submit the map myself when I'll be ready, if you do not mind.

Few comments and some suggestions:

The natural has minerals spread apart way too much. I would pack them together more. Notice in Pro maps they dont really spread out minerals often... It makes for slow unbalanced mining.

There is not much gas on this map. I suggest that you put a mineral only expansion on each hill by the waterways. otherwise those hills are pointless.

I also think you should put a gas in the expansions that are surrounded by water.

I would only have 8 mineral patches at each main and 7 at the other expansion.

I do not think this map is ready for the pro section although i think it would be worthy after some work.

Your comments make sense. Heres what I did so far:

- I put most mineral patches closer to eachothers (workers can still each all of them now without having to manually interfere).
- Added 2 geysers to the east and west of the map.
- Added 2 mineral-only expansions to the hills, but added a ramp also. I don't like the island-like idea
- Minor terrain + doodad modifications


How's this? (map file updated @ first post (not the screenshot)).

Thanks for following through. You did a good job. Now it is worthy of the Pro setion good job. But donw submit it yet, not many have posted on this yet.

Yea I know. I doupt many other people will post anything worthy of modifications, though.

This is a big modification and it will greatly affect the outcome ot the map.

I was thinking of adding another bridge to those 2 islands at each side to which the only way to enter is through the bridge.
I thought of this becasue it's too easy to defend through one bridge and the middle area is too plain, just send your army from the top or bottom area.

These 2 new bridges would each lead to the islands and to the middle of the area. That way both your armies can be having a big battle at the middle but you send some troops through this bridge to out-flank them. It adds a whole lot of strategy to the middle area and it makes you think more about how to defend that island.

I disagree.

Most likely, by the time you have that expansion you and your opponent have air. just attack from behind.

Even if they dont have air I would not change that. I think Chris is better at terrain than anything else at melee map making, he puts alot of time and effort into it, and i think its fine how it is now.

I don't see how putting alot of time on a melee map means the map actually is better , I put countless hours on my Full Moon map, and it ended up in a major crash xD. But enough of this.

I kinda agree with Yenku. I don't particularely want to make the 2 "island" expansions easily reachable. Yenku has a point: By that time, both races will have dropping and/or air capacities; it won't matter anymore that ground troups can access all the mineral expansions easily.


I'd have to agree, though, with Beer about that the middle area is a TINY lil bit too wide. Can't think of anything to do with this, though. I believe the wide area already allows for decent flanking.

The middles area isn't to wide at all =/ Flanking is mostly only important with melee units (although sometimes it helps to flank goons if you don't have enough room) to get the aggregate of attack in your favour. Just flank the little bastard when he comes on your territory. I can't really find too many things wrong with this map at the moment... there's a few space issues inbetween obstacles (the patch of water and the paths at the bottem and the top) but I guess that's what a lot of people find asymmetrically pleasing... however you should keep in mind when making thin paths at the bottem that not all of it is playable (due to the task bar at the bottem of the screen that you will see while playing... thus although they may look to be about the same width one is actually much more difficult to get though.

You might want to actually try the map instead

I just tested it and everything is much wider than it looks. There's only 1 lil piece of land which I will modify, that is narrower than the others.

Thanks for the comment BTW =)

i never said time helped with maps, i basically was saying that you put time into it which shows your interest and care.

The middle is not to wide, it allows for microing in battles.

not that i have anything against this map, it is actually nice. but i want to know how many games have been played on this map? why does beer keg think this is a pro map when he hasnt even tested it? there could be some imbalances that you may not have thought of, and unless you dont test this map, theres no way of saying if its good or not. when making melee maps id rather think of it like this: waste 30% of your time on making the map, and waste another 70% on testing it

and i say "waste" because its rather impossible for any maps displayed here to become pro in the real meaning of the word. if you keep on judging maps just by looking at them you're doomed.

Yes. That's what I was thinking before, too, when I was asked to take over the melee section. But following my (and apparently yours, too) definition of "pro", no maps would have entered the category. The section is only called pro because it reaches decent melee standards.

And I'd rather people comment my map by just looking at it, instead of having no one testing it because people are lazy.


And yes, I did test the map twice as for now with 2 friends

Well i dont think you need to spend that much time testing because the better you are the easier it is to notice problems with a map, you know all the possibilities and the outcomes.

Meh i got owned by paladin on this map, Well i liked it, Besides the fact i got whooped.... Good job.... Not really an expert to say good or bad things.. So its good to me..

Well, making the map does give you certain advantages when playing....

And think the map is fine.

Chris, did you submit it yet?

No. I'm gonna do it now though

Well good job on the map anyway.