Report, edit, etc...Posted by Death-Link on 2005-03-24 at 04:45:06
ive seen this over and over again...
the names for peoples maps are completely stupid. i've probably seen 420347 maps named "islands" or "roadways" or some other lame name everyone in the world has thought of when they make their first map. be more creative and find a better name that sounds more interesting.
and also, please consider the fact that large maps (192x192 and above) are way to big for a 2 or 4 player map, it would take forever for players to travel from one main base to another. but mainly i think big maps suck because it is harder for one to learn the terrain. i wouldnt even bother making a massive map, i know no-one would bother playing on it.
the names for peoples maps are completely stupid. i've probably seen 420347 maps named "islands" or "roadways" or some other lame name everyone in the world has thought of when they make their first map. be more creative and find a better name that sounds more interesting.
and also, please consider the fact that large maps (192x192 and above) are way to big for a 2 or 4 player map, it would take forever for players to travel from one main base to another. but mainly i think big maps suck because it is harder for one to learn the terrain. i wouldnt even bother making a massive map, i know no-one would bother playing on it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (U)Bolt_Head on 2005-03-24 at 05:13:20
I think part of the fun part of a map is not knowing the terrain. So exploring has to be part of your strategy.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-03-24 at 09:21:31
QUOTE((U)Bolt_Head @ Mar 24 2005, 05:13 AM)
I think part of the fun part of a map is not knowing the terrain. So exploring has to be part of your strategy.
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Those replays suck to watch though. Instead of great battles and flanking, you see random troop movement and, if the players are good, hidden tech.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Volcove99 on 2005-03-24 at 09:55:22
Well a map isn't that fun anymore if your practically memorize the terrain. Thats what bugs me about maps like Lost Temple: Its all people play.
Well, if you want a good size for a 2-4 player map, go with 128x128. Ensure balance, but don't make each area too similar to the point where it looks symetrical.
Well, if you want a good size for a 2-4 player map, go with 128x128. Ensure balance, but don't make each area too similar to the point where it looks symetrical.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-03-24 at 10:06:13
Death-Link, I believe if you can blame us at sucking at finding names, you can do better.
Got a couple of suggestions? Or you mean that we have to name our maps in such "poetic" ways as Plokius, Babloot or Jakarax?
Got a couple of suggestions? Or you mean that we have to name our maps in such "poetic" ways as Plokius, Babloot or Jakarax?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-03-24 at 17:52:36
jakarax thats the name of my next map!!! 
jk
jk
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2005-03-25 at 06:34:10
QUOTE(Volcove99 @ Mar 24 2005, 06:55 AM)
Well a map isn't that fun anymore if your practically memorize the terrain. Thats what bugs me about maps like Lost Temple: Its all people play.
Well, if you want a good size for a 2-4 player map, go with 128x128. Ensure balance, but don't make each area too similar to the point where it looks symetrical.
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Well, if you want a good size for a 2-4 player map, go with 128x128. Ensure balance, but don't make each area too similar to the point where it looks symetrical.
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128x128 fastest maps.... hmmm, those maps aren't even close to being balanaced. Terrans have to much of a advantage (you can siege your enemy from your base without lossing that many units), zerg can have up to 30 lairs, and protoss? The only way to stop a ling rush is to build cybernetics cores as close to each other as possible.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-03-25 at 10:55:28
Well put templar, and max, iagree but i would have put it in different terms.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-03-25 at 11:04:13
QUOTE((U)Bolt_Head @ Mar 24 2005, 04:13 AM)
I think part of the fun part of a map is not knowing the terrain. So exploring has to be part of your strategy.
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That's true, but the art of melee as it has evolved has shown that large maps with few players = bad. People, especially pro's, want to play a 1v1 or 2v2 in a map thats 128x128 or the equilvalant in space. It also makes it a great deal easier to scout. It's hard enough to scout in a map thats 128x128 in a 2 player game, how hard and time consuming do you think it would be in a 192x192+ map? I don't know anyone who wants to waste that amount of time.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-03-25 at 11:14:02
hmmm, I dont think there is any art in exploring. you know the map after the first time you play it. It is very easy to see how the map is just after first looking at minimap image and then playing it once.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-03-25 at 12:50:39
Bullshit 
Scouting should be your #2 or 3 priority to get to know what to build. I'm sure you'll stop building mass Zerglings if you found out your opponent had more firebats than marines. Etc...
Just... Alot of people don't scout after 10-15 minute in game.
Scouting should be your #2 or 3 priority to get to know what to build. I'm sure you'll stop building mass Zerglings if you found out your opponent had more firebats than marines. Etc...
Just... Alot of people don't scout after 10-15 minute in game.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-03-26 at 00:48:39
Scouting in any game is tied with cash as #1 priority. Without knowing who your enemy is and where he is, you cannot possibly build the proper units to defeat him or send them to the right spots to attack.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by bajadulce on 2005-03-26 at 03:13:13
QUOTE
chuiu: Scouting in any game is tied with cash as #1 priority
This is fundamental! How can anyone argue this? <--- mistake
update: how can anyone argue differently, otherwise, against this, opposite, or not feel scouting is important.
As far as the map size goes, yes I would agree 128x128 should be max for 1v1. possibly larger for 2v2, but only as a MAX figure. 128x128 is still the better size for 2v2. Show me a pro 1v1 replay that was played on a "large" map. They don't play these for a reason.
Creative names in maps? Again good advice. I would think map names are kind of like "clothes" to humans. Ya you might be a great person, but if you're dressed like a kook people are going to be less likely to approach you.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-03-26 at 08:58:11
QUOTE(PsychoTemplar @ Mar 25 2005, 12:49 PM)
I would have to disagree. The reason a lot of players lose at higher levels is because they don't have good scouting skills. Scouting is especially important to a Protoss player because it's hard for them to switch techs (it takes a lot longer than it would for a Zerg player for example). You have to scout often because of misinformation (typically when a player starts teching to something and you see it, then when you leave cancels it and starts a new tech, though there are other ways). In a lot of games I see players not even trying to stop their enemy from expanding, which is definitly a mistake.
Although it may not be the backbone of one's game it certainly ranks high with me. I appologise if you just meant scouting as in finding the opponent's main base and you refer to tech scouting in some other way; but I feel it should be made known that scouting is a vital part of the game.
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Although it may not be the backbone of one's game it certainly ranks high with me. I appologise if you just meant scouting as in finding the opponent's main base and you refer to tech scouting in some other way; but I feel it should be made known that scouting is a vital part of the game.
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Templar I mean to say that scouting and memorizing a map is not a big part of the game. Someone earlier said that it is important that we play on new maps so we dont know it. I know scouting is important like knowing the enemies tech and seeing what thier plans are is very important. Maybe i should edit my last post so it makes sense.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-03-26 at 11:28:02
QUOTE(bajadulce @ Mar 26 2005, 02:13 AM)
This is fundamental! How can anyone argue this?
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Read above my post and you will find out.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by bajadulce on 2005-03-28 at 01:29:43
Man I wish I had payed more attention in English composition classes. Seems I'm always writing something that "reads" completely opposite than what I intended 
argue against this.
Is what I meant. How could anyone disagree that scouting wasn't important? This seems like such a basic fundamental that it's almost a no-brainer. If you don't scout you'll be making firebats to counter dragoons. Tanks against mutas (tho scouting zerg is a special case that deserves even more scouting than normal because they can switch from any tech at any sec.)
Ok that was my intended thoughts written with poor sentence composition.
argue against this.
Is what I meant. How could anyone disagree that scouting wasn't important? This seems like such a basic fundamental that it's almost a no-brainer. If you don't scout you'll be making firebats to counter dragoons. Tanks against mutas (tho scouting zerg is a special case that deserves even more scouting than normal because they can switch from any tech at any sec.)
Ok that was my intended thoughts written with poor sentence composition.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Death-Link on 2005-03-28 at 03:35:02
replying to psychotemplar: just because i may be new to the forums doesnt mean i have no right to express my opinions... ive been making maps for a long time now, and i check up on this forum very often. im just saying that it would be much nicer for people to put better names for their maps, instead of there being 20 different maps named "islands" or something like that. also its easier for people to remember, like "oh i just played Arizona/Requiem/Luna (or some other nice name) and it rocks".
you may memorize a map in 20 or so seconds (that is memorise where a few expos and chokes are and thats it) but its not learning the terrain that is difficult, it is adapting your strategy to the map. when playing a new map i find myself often wondering what to do, and so do my opponents. but after a few games you can estimate better what is needed and what isnt.
you may memorize a map in 20 or so seconds (that is memorise where a few expos and chokes are and thats it) but its not learning the terrain that is difficult, it is adapting your strategy to the map. when playing a new map i find myself often wondering what to do, and so do my opponents. but after a few games you can estimate better what is needed and what isnt.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by wesmic da pimp on 2005-03-28 at 09:43:02
i dont think the name of the map is really of much importance, in fact... i like maps with easy names so that way it gives me a little help or whatever... but now with the "Map Preview" i guess that doesnt even matter
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-03-31 at 16:58:37
Scouting is extremely important, but memorizing the map isnt bad. You STILL have to scout even if you have the map memorized. Having the map well known lets you concentrate on scouting based on what kind of buildings and strategies they are going for, instead of just finding out where the nearest expo is. Without scouting how would you know what types of build you want? If you didnt scout and know your opponent was Z then you might be going 1gate tech which will get yourself owned. Or if you are playing T and your opponent is Z and you didnt know, you might go fast tech without building enough m&m. If you don't scout you won't know how to counter.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2005-04-03 at 15:59:25
Most of the reason that I go into my 'Blizzard Maps' Folder is because I am unfamiliar with most of those maps. I like haveing the suprise, as well as my opponent haveing the suprise too.
I just played SP on his map he made (I cant recall the name specifically), but he had a probe to me just after I made my first pylon. He knew every aspect of the map, whereas I had no clue where the next expo even was. He ended up owning me (I hadn't played in about 2 months, so I wasn't up to my full potential (Which isn't much anyway). Here's the replay If You want to see it.
Arg, I cannot find it -_-
I just played SP on his map he made (I cant recall the name specifically), but he had a probe to me just after I made my first pylon. He knew every aspect of the map, whereas I had no clue where the next expo even was. He ended up owning me (I hadn't played in about 2 months, so I wasn't up to my full potential (Which isn't much anyway). Here's the replay If You want to see it.
Arg, I cannot find it -_-