Report, edit, etc...Posted by MindArchon on 2005-05-22 at 18:07:03
As Trigger Viewer 1.07 is nearing completion, I need beta testers to help find bugs.
Here are all the changes in 1.07
If you would like to apply, please post in this thread.
First come first serve, I only need like 5-8 testers or so. I will contact you by PM/AIM/MSN.
Post Bugs/Suggestions for the Beta at http://www.shadowfortress.net/triggerviewer
Here are all the changes in 1.07
QUOTE(versionhistory.txt)
//------------\\
//Version 1.07\\
//------------\\
- Changed About Form.
- Program now Bypasses "DeathKnight' Protection
- Location Viewer!!!
- Player Settings Viewer!!
- Unit Settings Viewer
- Added two hidden trigger actions: Bypass Esc Enable, and Bypass Esc Disable.
- Added shortcuts to menu items.
- Unit Placement Viewer.
- Loading now takes longer because of new features. 2nd bar added.
//Version 1.07\\
//------------\\
- Changed About Form.
- Program now Bypasses "DeathKnight' Protection
- Location Viewer!!!
- Player Settings Viewer!!
- Unit Settings Viewer
- Added two hidden trigger actions: Bypass Esc Enable, and Bypass Esc Disable.
- Added shortcuts to menu items.
- Unit Placement Viewer.
- Loading now takes longer because of new features. 2nd bar added.
If you would like to apply, please post in this thread.
First come first serve, I only need like 5-8 testers or so. I will contact you by PM/AIM/MSN.
Post Bugs/Suggestions for the Beta at http://www.shadowfortress.net/triggerviewer
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-05-22 at 18:16:44
THat house analogy i used back in the news post about the trigger viewer wasn't very accurate with what the trigger viewer was back then.
NOW it suits this one very well...
NOW it suits this one very well...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2005-05-22 at 18:34:57
I like how you call it "Trigger Viewer" to disguise the fact that you can essentially view nearly every aspect of the map expect terrain. I'd love to argue about what this does to map protection, but it won't really stop you. I'll give you a sarcastic golf clap for your achievements though.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MindArchon on 2005-05-22 at 18:40:52
QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ May 22 2005, 03:34 PM)
I like how you call it "Trigger Viewer" to disguise the fact that you can essentially view nearly every aspect of the map expect terrain. I'd love to argue about what this does to map protection, but it won't really stop you. I'll give you a sarcastic golf clap for your achievements though.
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Hey, it was originally called Trigger Viewer. I'm not going to change it now
Report, edit, etc...Posted by axblader on 2005-05-22 at 19:07:35
Me wanna apply!
I have nothing else to do lol.
I have nothing else to do lol.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-05-22 at 20:16:32
QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ May 22 2005, 05:34 PM)
I like how you call it "Trigger Viewer" to disguise the fact that you can essentially view nearly every aspect of the map expect terrain. I'd love to argue about what this does to map protection, but it won't really stop you. I'll give you a sarcastic golf clap for your achievements though.
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The map cannot be modified?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2005-05-22 at 20:26:16
Bypassing DeathKnight's protection method? 
I think that there should always be a way for mapmakers to protect their maps.
If they WANT to have their triggers viewable (but not openable via editors), then I belive that they should be able. But I also think that map makers should have a right to map privacy.
Ahh well, I suppose someone will come up with a new protection method.
I think that there should always be a way for mapmakers to protect their maps.
If they WANT to have their triggers viewable (but not openable via editors), then I belive that they should be able. But I also think that map makers should have a right to map privacy.
Ahh well, I suppose someone will come up with a new protection method.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-05-22 at 22:20:06
QUOTE(Voyager7456. @ May 22 2005, 07:26 PM)
...
If they WANT to have their triggers viewable (but not openable via editors), then I belive that they should be able. But I also think that map makers should have a right to map privacy.
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If they WANT to have their triggers viewable (but not openable via editors), then I belive that they should be able. But I also think that map makers should have a right to map privacy.
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That's exactly what i've been saying since day 1 but noone listens
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-05-22 at 22:27:13
Do I have to apply to test it?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-05-23 at 01:52:26
QUOTE(Voyager7456. @ May 22 2005, 07:26 PM)
If they WANT to have their triggers viewable (but not openable via editors), then I belive that they should be able. But I also think that map makers should have a right to map privacy.
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Does me unlocking your map and viewing it really make you feel violated and offended? Have I really violated your privacy? Thanks for storing your credit card numbers and shit in there, that was pretty stupid of you!
*Side note, I don't actually waste my time unlocking your maps.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-23 at 02:54:04
Proedit should have an intergrated feature that makes it so that you can choose to make your map combatible with the Trigger Viewer.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SI on 2005-05-23 at 06:32:30
send me a copy 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by sckor on 2005-05-23 at 08:19:54
can I test too?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2005-05-23 at 08:31:58
QUOTE(chuiu_os @ May 22 2005, 11:52 PM)
Does me unlocking your map and viewing it really make you feel violated and offended? Have I really violated your privacy?
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Not as much violated and offended as pissed off. What if my map's an RPG that changes depending on what choices you make? What if it's a game that relies on passwords? Then someone can just open it up and get the passwords without playing.
Like I said, I'm not the against the idea of Trigger Viewer, I just believe that there should be some protection against it for mappers that don't want their maps to be opened.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-05-23 at 11:42:13
Have you ever heard of the gameshark or gamegenie? Do you use them? I bet you do. You see, what the gameshark does, is it finds and changes memory locations of your games to give you an advantage or disadvantage depending on the code you entered. The code is actually a memory change. It can give you infinite life, unlock several things, god mode, whatever...
The thing is, people choose to cheat and use these things, just like people can choose to not cheat and play honestly.
If you had a truly random system, it wouldn't matter. If you had a fixed system, then who gives a crap if a certain few people take a look in the map and see how it works? It's done every day with thousands of games wordwide.
You ever hear of a cheat code? Its basically all the same thing. You're complaining about someone's moral choice of whether he wants to cheat or not. Who cares? It's not affecting you in any way.
The thing is, people choose to cheat and use these things, just like people can choose to not cheat and play honestly.
If you had a truly random system, it wouldn't matter. If you had a fixed system, then who gives a crap if a certain few people take a look in the map and see how it works? It's done every day with thousands of games wordwide.
You ever hear of a cheat code? Its basically all the same thing. You're complaining about someone's moral choice of whether he wants to cheat or not. Who cares? It's not affecting you in any way.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-05-23 at 13:00:50
QUOTE(chuiu_os @ May 23 2005, 10:42 AM)
Have you ever heard of the gameshark or gamegenie? Do you use them? I bet you do. You see, what the gameshark does, is it finds and changes memory locations of your games to give you an advantage or disadvantage depending on the code you entered. The code is actually a memory change. It can give you infinite life, unlock several things, god mode, whatever...
The thing is, people choose to cheat and use these things, just like people can choose to not cheat and play honestly.
If you had a truly random system, it wouldn't matter. If you had a fixed system, then who gives a crap if a certain few people take a look in the map and see how it works? It's done every day with thousands of games wordwide.
You ever hear of a cheat code? Its basically all the same thing. You're complaining about someone's moral choice of whether he wants to cheat or not. Who cares? It's not affecting you in any way.
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The thing is, people choose to cheat and use these things, just like people can choose to not cheat and play honestly.
If you had a truly random system, it wouldn't matter. If you had a fixed system, then who gives a crap if a certain few people take a look in the map and see how it works? It's done every day with thousands of games wordwide.
You ever hear of a cheat code? Its basically all the same thing. You're complaining about someone's moral choice of whether he wants to cheat or not. Who cares? It's not affecting you in any way.
[right][snapback]213689[/snapback][/right]
Well, but the point is that the decision of whether to let your maps/products be accessable to the public is up to you as the maker. It's not for the consumers to determine whether your map can be accessed or not.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-05-23 at 13:56:05
Programs like this and devices like Gameshark/GameGenie get around that for a specific purpose. They don't harm anyone or invade your privacy.
The way Blizzard designed them, maps are viewable to everyone. It wasn't untill someone hacked the MPQ format and then hexed the CHK file to prevent people from opening it did that option arise.
Like I said protection is something developed by consumers, someone who likes being selfish with his knowledge and his trigger methods or someone who doesn't like his map being changed by random people. Which one are you? Because if you're the second person, then why do you care so much about this program being released? It's not hurting you at all.
QUOTE
Well, but the point is that the decision of whether to let your maps/products be accessable to the public is up to you as the maker.
The way Blizzard designed them, maps are viewable to everyone. It wasn't untill someone hacked the MPQ format and then hexed the CHK file to prevent people from opening it did that option arise.
Like I said protection is something developed by consumers, someone who likes being selfish with his knowledge and his trigger methods or someone who doesn't like his map being changed by random people. Which one are you? Because if you're the second person, then why do you care so much about this program being released? It's not hurting you at all.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-05-23 at 13:59:55
Im not opposed to this. I'm just trying to approach this in different ways.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-05-23 at 14:03:09
The only arguement against this is:
"I'm selfish and I don't want people to see how I made my map can you please give me a way of preventing people from viewing it through this program".
If people want to use it to just see secrets in the map, then go ahead, let them do so. It's only hurting them. Just like with playing the map in single player and letting them use codes. Why struggle so much to prevent it? It doesn't matter.
"I'm selfish and I don't want people to see how I made my map can you please give me a way of preventing people from viewing it through this program".
If people want to use it to just see secrets in the map, then go ahead, let them do so. It's only hurting them. Just like with playing the map in single player and letting them use codes. Why struggle so much to prevent it? It doesn't matter.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-23 at 14:10:27
Preventing single player is much easier then protecting from the Trigger Viewer though.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-05-23 at 14:34:26
I didn't say it wasn't. I just said that it doesn't matter what you do, people will always find ways to get around protection if they really want to see the secrets in your map. This just gives them more of a reason to not tamper with it/unlock it. And in no way does it affect the map maker.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-23 at 14:51:35
Not if you don't have any secrets in your map.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-05-23 at 14:58:50
Has anyone ever told you you have a knack for pointing out the obvious?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-23 at 15:00:08
You'd be the first person.
Maybe MindArchon should allow a feature to the map that allows you to view the terrain and save all the triggers and settings to a different location.
Maybe MindArchon should allow a feature to the map that allows you to view the terrain and save all the triggers and settings to a different location.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-05-23 at 15:07:12
If he did that, it would be banned from SEN because it's no longer a viewer program. And people would have a reason to be pissed off at it.