Staredit Network

All the melee maps I see are the same in a few ways. The way resources are placed on the map at bases and expantions, the (so-called) balanced sizes and symmetry of everything about the terrain, and some other things. Alot of them are 'just another melee map'.

Now, I have some ideas you might want to try:
Give maps an organic feel, not a flashy design covering the map. Make the map interesting for the players, use some critters, make expansions in wierd places.
Avoid making the map perfetly balanced and symmertical. The map being played the first few times will have a sort of uncertainty about it, the players won't know exactly where all the bases are, where all the expansions are... it makes the game much more entertaining.
Break mineral fields into smaller pieces. (More fields with less minerals each) And make use of depleated or very low geysers.
Don't make hot spots of resources, spread them out a little.
Use square terrain tiles to make parts ot all of the map.
and
Use some unbuildable terrain in places where the players probably won't like it too much.

If you want a map like this, do it yourself. The kind of map your describing is the kind of maps blizzard used to make... only without the dumb idea about minerals. Pick one of theres out, have a ball; those maps were made for n00bs, all the n00bs play money maps now... therefore there's no audience for it.

For money, which is more often the case than you think, this is a bad idea... hell, even for reputation. You may find it a waste of time, others prefer to play a game of skill, because if your opponent finds the natural first, you're dead, expecially if you need to expand quickly. With these types of maps, people will tend to go 4 hat before pool just because they know the opponent probably won't find them.

Your idea sucks, nobodys going to waste there time making it for you. If you want this kind of map, do it yourself.

I don't want anyone to make a map for me. I'm just suggesting some ideas.

I have no idea what you're talking about here...

You should stick to UMS then, or come back in 3 years when you know how to play.

Forgive me if I don't use retarted melee slang bullshit, obviously I'm not GoSu like you are. I guess I'll go back to my poor inferior UMS map making.

I didn't say it was inferior, I said it didn't require an experienced melee player. I'm not using slang, you're just an idiot.

Seriously, don't tell people that their maps suck, and that they should do as you tell them even though you have no competetive melee experience. If the average person is me, then the average person doesn't like a game to be dependent on dumbshit luck, the average person want a competetive and fair gaming enviroment. If you're not willing to put the effort into your peice of shit idea, then don't expect us to.

That's the only thing I had a problem with, I think it's a bad idea.

Psychotemplar stop being a jackass, he never said anything about money maps moron. Instead of discouraging and telling him ideas suck why not at least steer him in the right direction and give him more information about why the suck and some other advice. Hell, at least he's wasting his time in this forum making a topic.

He also never said other maps SUCK, you did. He was just saying the maps he's seen are similar, which they are.

Also, how the hell could you think he's talking about money maps? Are you retarded. Theres like no fastest money maps out there where you would use the word "expansion" or suggest "nonsymmtrical" terrain.



There's a map preview there for a reason. Also, some people LIKE to play on terrain they haven't memorized by heart. Unlike the LT everyone loves to play on all the time.

In addition, if the expos are placed the same distance near each main, yet they are in different terrain, then it does take good scouting to find them.

I never said his idea was about money maps, I'm saying the audience (n00bs) for these kinds of maps now plays money maps. Dolt.

If someone thinks maps are plain and boring and not fun, then that's basically saying they suck, in so many words.

SOME people don't play melee competetivly, like the majority of the melee gaming population. You aren't a melee gamer, you don't know this. One or two games every once in awhile with another newb doesn't count.

Seriously, why do you even post in this forum... all you do is bash and contradict yourself, then start up a rumour. If you're going to post here, at least have the curtisy to realise more active posters in this forum know more than you.

No they aren't



I'm sure all those adjectives were used.



Hey moron, guess what I've been doing for like the past month, exclusively? Playing melee, so shut the hell up. A few games a day with people that can own you sure counts though. Yes, if the majority doesn't play competitively then an unknown asymmetrical map WOULD be fun to play on.



Rofl, you are the one bashing Kenoli, I wasn't the one who started calling people idiots and putting words in their mouths. Yea I'm sure just because you are one of the only active ones here makes you the god of melee, your posts here surely don't show it.

http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=11559
Your topic you made contradicts everything you've said here, one of kenoli's main suggestions was to make asymmetrical maps.

What I meant by that was such as the majority. Clearly I wouldn't be trying to contradict myself. I guess bad choice of words.

In my topic I said symmetrical maps should be accepted, as there are generally very fair. I don't know what you're refering to.


Playing melee with newbs from SEN or random pubbies on Battle.Net isn't very impressive. Join a ladder and get a decent ranking, then I'll respect you (too bad it takes talent).


That says that the maps we've been making are boring and repetetive. Boring and repetetive things suck. QED

Worthless.

I've been browsing, but I had to come back for this

Devilesk is at it again, taking comments that someone said (what psycho said about money map newbs), and skewed what they said to mean something entirely different. He has yet to explain why he does that.


Oh, and by the way, imbalanced maps, it isn't fun being screwed from the start because of start location (or your race).

If neither play knows the map, then it is a game of luck to see who happens to find the terrain features that give them an advantage first. No skill involved, just blind (by definition) luck.



If you want these kind of maps, play blizzard maps.

I don't think anyone should respond to devil, he is a troll who doesn't adress points honestly or completely.

Rofl, I don't barely play anyone on SEN, maybe twice in all, or random pubbies you moron.



They don't suck, they just aren't interesting. You can still play a great game of melee on any map, it doesn't mean the map is special.

LOL, and he says that people that play money maps aren't newbs.

Go away.

Are you retarded? Where did I say that you idiot. You should go away noob.

owned

ADDITION:
You call me a newb? When I get over my flu we can have a best of 7.

I guess my response wasn't clear, it should say No they don't. Kenoli was talking about asymmetrical maps, if you are saying the audience for playing those maps also play money maps and are noobs then you ARE an idiot.

In laymens terms, avoid making it a fair game.

the people who plays those maps are almost exclusively newbs, yes

and i am sure many of them also play money maps, and never actually move up to playing real games (some mght also get lost and start to play UMS )

http://promaps.deported.net/

I'm sure all of them are symmetrical, and the ones that aren't are only played by noobs, but wait, those are supposed to be PRO maps right?

What the f*ck ??

We aren't talking about asymmetrical maps (even 99% of those are), we are talking about what the OP said. You are at it again, taking someone's arguement and twisting it into meaning something different.

If you still think I'm a newb I could play you now. I am confident I can win, even with the flu.

Alright, another contentious debate

But yea, initially i tried just to make my maps as pretty as they could be (and apparently, not too well) and i almost completely overlooked the importance of balance (since i am not very good in melee and i only play money maps ).

If i were to classify myself as what type of race i play, i'd say im a zerg player.

EDIT (I was a little slow on the reply, adding quote so it makes sense)
He's not saying to make it asymmtrical, he's saying it should be unbalanced, because balance makes games predictable. I disagree with him. In my topic I say symmetrical maps should be accepted too, because everytime I submited one, people critisized it, just for that.

You're drawing conclusions from nowhere... stop =D

Whoops, I forgot the A in asymmetrical

I am confident I will lose the game, but I won't play with a jackass who will just use it as an excuse to say he is right about everything. Your skill PLAYING melee isn't very relevant in whether or not an asymmetrical map is good. As long as you at least know the basic game.




Ok your right there, though I don't fully understand what he meant by "unbalanced". I don't think anyone in their right mind would intentionally mean to say unbalanced matchup wise so that one race gets an advantage over another.

I'm taking it as asymmetrical to actually make something of his suggestions.

we are talking about what the OP said, not about assymetrical maps

lost temple is not symmetrical, by the way

and it was me that left the "a" off, but it could really go both ways

edit: stop trying to twist the arguement around

The argument isn't about the balance of assymetrical maps, it's about the fact that people shouldn't purposly make a map unfair, which is exactly what the guy said. What's wrong with you?

Skill in melee is relevent to ones ablility to determine if a map or idea is fair or balanced. It's only logical, you seem to have a problem with logic. Ever wonder why godly map makers like bill307 try to get a lot of feed back from high level gamers... it's because more experienced gamers can spot what will happen before playing the game.

EDIT
It's not even just race matchups, this guys saying start locations shouldn't be balanced.