Staredit Network

HI; I'm new here thanks for having me.

Let's get the issue of backstabing out of the way as there is always someone who will take offense or regard the game play as "not real".
For reference I want to point out to everyone that the way the allie console is set up and what Blizzard allowed to be printed in the "Prima's Official Star Craft guide" (page 212 , 2nd paragraph) make it clear that
that backstabing was intended to be a valuable variable in the game.
Like EVERYTHING in Starcraft it is intended there is a counter unit.
And backstabing is the counter to idiots who like to massively overpower the AI for the sake of easy wins. No win is complete untill
the stats come up. Letting your guard down against any opponent is
weakness. Even the USA has tactical plans against it's closest allies
in case lets say (gigle) Canada should try to anex North Dakot lol lol.

Facts are I am a fairly addept player, I average for wins on "real maps"
%68.8 wins, %12 for disconects and the remainder represents the number
of #### kickings I have taken. That is not bad when you consider that almost
all games I play are "7v1 comp" or "6v1" comp. With any luck after they kill
the comp there 6 remaining opponents who are wanting to tear me a new #######.
I justify this as, if you want to use 7 people to kill one comp, your a lamer trying to
up his stats and you deserve a loss or at least the enjoyment of trying to kill a backstaber.
Sometimes I like to play a fixed map. No game settings, just a regular multi-player game.
But some conditions have been changed. Most common of which of course is that because the terrans are the only ones who can transport their buildings early in the game. Remove all gas sources except for some on raised platform. Now both zerg and Toss require gas to be able to evolve air transport. I have learned over the "Years" that it is better to leave a couple empty wells down below in a common area. It gives more players the idea that there is hope of defeating you. So fewer players will quit the game early. However one needs to remember that this brings an ellement of danger. It does not require that much gas to attain transport and 4 or 5 shuttles and even an empty gas well will suply a value of "2' gas per unit.
The best part of a game like this is not the challenge obviously, but sometimes your gona feel lazy and just rather sit back there on your ledge with 14 nuclear silos and have at them. Or possilbly you would like to have more time to demoralize or other wise slander the opponents oposed to constructive building. We at clan www.FTB.8k.com relish in being called obscene things. The more upset the opponent the higher the grade of gaming. We encourage all opponents in all types of games and all types of maps, to in exchange for a shared win sign our guest book. Of course we do kill them anyways which makes for much better replys in the guest book after the game as well as plenty of denials. (on a side not, we rarely work in teams, although its bloody fun, theres just not enough for 2 or more people. It could be very different lets say if Starcraft II supports 12 or more people :-)

THE MAP: Pg.212 , is the second generation, the origninal was called "Dyzcaiplz_of_$atan" and was constructed on the largest possible settings, which it made it difficult to hunt down the hide outs and runners.
I got the idea from an experience very early in gaming when I was backstabed by some kids who for some reason quit the game. At that time there were no replays. By coincidence I was browsing my maps one day and remembered playing the game when I saw "Bobs Kick Map".
Honestly more has gone into making the map than you think.
I am now living in Thailand, and because my internet conection sucks It has motivated me to finally complete the new even smaller map. Designed strictly for one player, whereas Pg.212 could be shared between 2 stabers. You wouldn't believe how much time I have spent fussing over the new map!!!!!!!!!!! :blink: I am looking forward to showing that map here soon based on whether I recieve any constructive criticism here for this one or simply get banned.

Thanks for your opinions and coments.

1. Records on bnet DO NOT MATTER. You can not tell how good a person is by their record. And having 5000 wins is ot better than having 100.

2. Thats a money map. Why not just clear all the minerals off the map and set a trigger to give everyone infinitecash?

I can't see anything more pointless and gay than $$$ maps. If you want to play with people who dont play vs computers or backstab, go play GOOD maps with people you know. Maps like:

Lost Temple (best example, ever)
Gaema Gowon
Rivalry
Incubus
Hall of Valhalla
Forbidden Zone
Acheron
Sauron
Blade Storm
The Bifrost

The list goes on and on. All of those listed are very good maps.

I don't quite get if he likes BSers or not, or if he BSes hisself or something... Nice editorial, though xD

Back stabbing sucks indeed, but it is funny vs people like you, people that think that they are actually "good" players. I played a money maps, 1 week ago, to see how it was, and to my surprise, the people there had amazing skills, but these skills were nothing in a normal maps where you actually have to care about your economy.

Back to the topic now, this is a money map, and I do not think ANYONE here supports you in an attempt to make BGH even more popular as it is right now, sorry, and, no offence. Try to spend your skills on worthy maps like I do... NORMAL melee maps...

As much as I disagree with backstabbing, Staredit.net's foundations are based apon all types of mapping. Thus, I will suggest improvements:

IMPROVEMENTS

• Too much minerals
• If your going to make a money map, at least make it so everyone has the same amount
• Your map is based apon *Random Chance* for being in certain places. This is a no-no. All areas should be equal.
• Where the #### is the gas?
• The Top left looks like you were rushing to use up the space.
• God didn't make things straight in the world. We did. As a mapper, you are god. So, don't make everything straight.
• Doodads under terrian randomly placed.
• Shouldn't you use more than one type of terrian?
• Ramps?

*Bows*

Have a nice day.

For Chu
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1. Records on bnet DO NOT MATTER. You can not tell how good a person is by their record. And having 5000 wins is ot better than having [COLOR=red]100.

The point of my stating stats was so that we could get beyond assuming that because I played money maps, that I was not necessarily incapable
skill wise of be competative on a real map. Yes certainly a different skill set. And I would say that it is as skill demanding in strategic thinking,
tactical knowledge or requiring the intuitive play needed in a ladder game. There’s a lot of skills required for normal mineral maps that don’t come into play with the former.
[COLOR=blue]
2. Thats a money map. Why not just clear all the minerals off the map and set a trigger to give everyone infinitecash?
[COLOR=red] Only because the desired opponents may not be willing to join a "settings" game.
And such a game does not cary a record of losses, which may not be important to you
Or me, but that it is important to the others is a significant reason why this type of
Game is fun.

[COLOR=gray] And I will address Shadow here.
[COLOR=blue]I don't quite get if he likes BSers or not, or if he BSes hisself or something... Nice editorial, though xD

[COLOR=red] Yeah sorry about that, I have difficulty being succinct.

[COLOR=blue]Back stabbing sucks indeed, but it is funny vs people like you, people that think that they are actually "good" players.
[COLOR=red]
I addressed the former, and I always am hopefully anticipative of someone backstabbing me.[COLOR=blue]
Back to the topic now, this is a money map, and I do not think ANYONE here supports you in an attempt to make BGH even more popular as it is right now,
[COLOR=red]
I think if any of you had actually read my original post, you would understand that what I do as a "backstabber" does not in any way encourage popularity of the BGH style. In fact it certainly inhibits it.

Did you know ........ that the strategic thinking parts of the human mind actually develop quite late in life? Persons under the age of 12 have not yet developed large amounts of the mind that give us our tactical skill that make us good chess players. That’s a fact. So why are so many 8-9 and 10 year olds playing SC? Well its an attractive package that their older brother doesn't use anymore. Its got lots of neat tanks and soldiers
and its colourful and user friendly. These (unfortunately) are the people these days who are dominating 7v1 comp games. Logging up bandwidth with inane mindless games.
Can you imagine how many 10 year olds would be logging up the servers in WCII and SC if they weren’t being bullied? Its the negative experience of being repeatedly backstabbed that shakes these guys up and makes them decide that either it's no fun being beaten up or they start thinking about what can be done to combat the problem. In the process of countering the work of the backstabber they begin to consider more of the possibilities in the game. That is what will separate those who do become fascinated with real strategy maps and start to explore the possibilities and challenges of good gaming, and those who are looking
for a neat toy to play with.
I think the backstabbers (sordid sadists that they might be) deserve
a hand of applause for the work they do in playing the role of the counter
unit to inane stupidity.
[COLOR=blue]
sorry, and, no offence. Try to spend your skills on worthy maps like I do... NORMAL melee maps...
[COLOR=red]LOL LOL none taken, lol have you seen some of the stuff they print in our guest book ? www.FTB.8k.com
I just kind of feel sorry for you that you had to take such a beating from the members of this group before you were accepted. So now you make
"worthy maps" instead of the crap you were making when you joined the group? Its that important to you that your maps are worthy in the communities view?

So now I know that there are some sharp minds here in this group producing impressive map-work.
I realize that my present maps are not
your forte. But if there is anyone willing to contribute constructive criticism it is appreciated either here or email me privately at wryq@hotmail.com

The map I have shown you was intended to look smart. To feature an even playing area for all players with the exception the upper left
expand. The gas in the 4 wells in the centre, should be enough for the
competent Zerg/Protoss players to gain transport abilities (most of these games are considerably long running). There should be after the backstabbers original main, and the computers base have been taken, enough minerals that terrans can create waves of barracks that can either land in the upper base or simply provide diversion for incoming unit drops.
There is a false ramp up the wall of the base under the "backstabbers expand" which has 2 roles. One it creates 2 distinctly different places (on and below) where command centres can be built, thus if a tactful player is
present and comes to explore the big blank area on the map after you have unshared vision, he will likely not have enough time to kill both command centres before one completes. Secondly this are produces a great false hope for the desperate seeking a way into the base.
The minerals in the base below the "backstabbers expand" are within
range of a tank, if the game gets boring.
There is huge ample room for 2 backstabbers to expand to stupid mass production levels and yet is small enough to be easily defended.
All bases are more or less proportionate, feature walls thick enough to protect against tanks, allso providing areas for the stabber to hide drop ships full of ghosts or for the desperate to hide that last floating barrack.
All bases feed into a large open neutral area. Where 3 of the 4 empty gas wells are situated. They are NOT evenly distributed deliberately to
cause some infighting. And that they might stumble on the idea of distributing the gas to toss and zerg while the terans focus on barracks.

I can tell you that it has happened a few times that I was successfully invaded and even killed on this map, usually by other persons having entered intending to BS. But 6 persons working as a team against you can be interesting. If anyone cares to try I am happy to send you the map.
I would really like to hear criticisms on the maps design with consideration given to its purpose.
Thanks all.

Thanks for the reply Techie.
About the "Too much minerals", agreed but then thats what comp stompers are wanting/expecting.
About mineral distribution: I thought it was quite even with the exception of the upper left area?

On the upper left area: The idea of gaining an advantage by escaping to resources likely only known my the game creator is no less underhanded than 7 people mindlessly attacking one comp. So people who enter a game like that garner no respect from me. That is how I justify nuking them to death.

Positioning: It is not based on chance, there is no startingarea in the upper left. I forgot that it is not shown on the map. The idea is that you use the false ramp and the area below it to build 2 new CC's while you continue to gather mins. Lift up and expand. Even someone whith a map hack will not react fast enough or correctly to gain the advantage.
The ramp area provides 2 distinctly different areas to build CC's. They are physically near but logistically seperated in the early game. That way
there is little possibility of both CC builds being usurped.
But no matter where you start location you should be able to remove shared vison and move into a dozen spaces for building.

Gas: all gas is removed, the point to give you a massive advantage against all comp stompers so you can focus on demoralizing and advertising the clans webpage. Some small amount of gas exists in the center of the map. These wells are actually nearly empty (about 30 gas).
Not enough for effective air untis but enough to most importantly give them lingering hope. And for any adept players enough to gain air transport. Usually early in the game someone will anounce "theres no gas" to which I reply "its in the middle so the comp cant get it". By the time that they have established that theres not enough for everyone (or anyone for that matter) the game has advanced far enough that they will take a loss. so then of course they attack your main. I will feign escape with the CC but really its just playing with their minds.But conveniently they will destroy your scv's so that you can build new ones at your new expand.

:Upper left is uneven" yes it is a bit, I kept taking pieces out of it to enlarge the neighboring basees.

Straight LInes and dooddads: I think you have a point on this, I will take keep this under consideration for my next map. Although I think youll hate the one I'm doing now, its very linear.
I only used a few doo dads to clutter up the gas veins. A few more might be nice to fill it in a bit.

Sincer thanks for your input. If anyone would like to see a replay on how this works, their quite long but the first 10 minutes are interesting, the rest just funny. Let me know I will email you .

Don't take my tips too seriously. I'm a harsh guy .

I must warn you two not to fight. If you want to debate the Pros/Cons to BSing, then you can create a new topic. Just do not let it get out of hand.

wow... u two took the time to get at each others throats... or flaming... i dunno:: c

which two?
I duno I'm completley relaxed over here.
I expected to just be deleted or baned for being a backstaber.
That some tactical purists will take exception to my style of gaming is to be expected. I just wanted to explain my position.
Mind you the one fellow did sound a little salty, so I thought I'd just point out how defensive he sounded.
Remember I'm 40 years old and living in Thailand, this is not the stuff to get my turds tied into knots for.
I am honestly hoping to improve the quality of my maps though even though their value is questionable.

The way I see it, other sites would ban you for backstabbing. We are a mapping site. I never said I supported backstabbing, but this is unlike other sites, thus I will not ban.

I'm not God of what you do on Battle.net. If BSing is your way of fun, then do it. I'm a UMS player which extremely rarely has BSing, and when it happens, the BSer gets killed.

I played a BS map yesterday with Andrew, and it was just gosu. Starting minerals were hallucinated ones, so after about 2 minutes in game, all players lost their main's minerals, thus, we know it, and it starts us off better than the other players that don't. Plus, the computers are neutralized, which makes things easier.

More maps like this should be made xD

MPas hsould not all be equal TD i played a map once, its was 2v2 on a 256x256 (big i know)

And each base was different, it was fun, you had to adapt to your surroundings

I didn't mean surrondings. I meant starting conditions.

If someone has 2 minerals and another has 10, thats not good.

Or, if someone has a base the size of a box and someone else the size of Asia, that ain't good either.