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Since I have made 4 rpgs, (Meaning my opinion is biased as hell) I can speak only on my side when it comes to knowing how to make RPGs, and what is usually required. So again, let me make it very clear. My opinion on abstract matters is very biased, but my opinion on concrete matters is not. And unlike politics, philosophy, or music, this is the only subject I know I can arrogantly say I know what I'm talking about in, and have the room to back it up. I am now done with the self richteous bull:poo:, and I will now get to the point.

I would personally say Great RPGs are harder to make than any other current game type on sc. (yes including melee) This is NOT an argument on which is better. Just an argument on which one is HARDER to do. That is all. Bounds in theory could be the most fun to play, but they are no where near as hard as other game types. Also, we will only debate about maps that have already been made. Otherwise, someone can easily point out that a high quality RPG spanning out 1,000,000 hours with out ever repeating the same quest, would be considered the "Hardest" to do. So again, we will only use maps that HAVE BEEN MADE as examples.

I would say RPG's (high quality), some of the melee promaps out there.

Hardest ones are the ones which require perfect balance.

Triggers themselves to me aren't what make maps hard, but it's the balance of the map (whether it be Player vs player or Player vs comp or w/e) that makes it hard to make.


I know this sounds retarded, but GOOD, unrigged madness maps are hard to make since you really have to balance out the units perfectly.

The fact you included melee makes this argument unfair, unless you want to try to compare any UMS map to the actual game of Starcraft, which Starcraft would win hands down every time.

I think its RPG, if you want them like the best of the best. You need to have the terrain all perfected in each of the grid squares. Use as much space as possible, have a orginal system to use for anything. Of corse BALANCE is the key to all maps!

Average RPGs are easy to make. Make a few beacons with a few characters, add a few basic triggers, a nice trail, a few bosses, Done.

I would have to say either a perfectly balenced melee, or a highly advanced new kind of map. Lets say... Uberena style (Sort of new idea for a map...) map with extremely complicated triggers.

How does it make it unfair? I thought the balancing of the sc strategies on to the terrain was what made melee map making hard. (That's what it's side is) In this light, we're comparing apples to apples. Genres to genres. Before, we were comparing a genre to a group of genres, which was just down right ignorant. This topic is more fair than the last one.

But not completely fair. How do you compare creating a new type of game with triggers to trying to create terrain for a game already made?

How were we not doing that on the other thread?

You were doing that in the other thread, AND you are continuing to do it in this thread.

We're currently comparing which ones are the hardest types of games to make. Just because melee has no actual game making in it, doesn't mean this topic is unconsidered unfair to them. It just means the other genres have another compelete factor to worry about. And that if melee maps are indeed harder to make, they would compensate for that with the so called extreme difficulty of balancing out the map.

If you for some strange reason still think this is too unfair to debate on, then by all means, don't post here. Cause I'm not gonna have a long debate with someone who barely admits their wrong on stuff, on wether this debate is "fair" enough to even debate about. If you want to debate about this debate, then go make another thread and debate there.

The problem is you can't gauge which is harder to make because they are completely different. What are you going to compare them to to scale how hard they are? How much "extremely difficult balancing" is enough to equal the same level of difficulty for triggering? They are both different and you haven't given ways to compare them. It's worse when you make the argument so vague as to say which is "harder" to make. It's pointless to debate this when most of it is going to be based on opinion.

You can't say that balancing will make up for the lack of creating a game element, even if it is extremely difficult, because in UMS you have to "balance" terrain as well, even if it's not to the level of Melee. There's clearly something missing when you say Melee has terrain and UMS has terrain, yet UMS has triggers and Melee doesn't.



The reason isn't strange, it's perfectly logical. Who's saying I don't want to post here? I'm posting my opinion right here. And what does me barely admitting I'm wrong on something have to do with this? If I'm wrong I admit it, and maybe the barely admitting part comes from me barely being wrong. If you debate this with it being unfair then you aren't going to get a very credible result and good arguments. After some bad argument posted here some person will later refer to this and be like "oh see right here it's been proven that this is harder to make than that". If you're going to debate this without showing that it's a fair debate then this is pointless.

Then stop :censored:ing, and help me out then if you think this topic is messed up. I'll change the 1st post, make it have more details. If you can't think of any improvements, then we're done talking, cause I know you won't admit you're wrong if you are.



Ya, that clearly justifies why you barely, (if not ever) admit your wrong. You mean to tell me your so smart, that out of all the controversial arguments you have done, you have always been on the right side for the last few months? Not only that, but all of the examples, and statements you have said, have all been correct as well? Doesn't that belittle everyone else's opinion? Your basically implying that everyone who has been against you in almost every single argument, has been wrong, and that you however, have been right.

PM me for suggestions on this thread. I'll let you put in the final word for the paragraph above, since it attacks your judgement skills personally.

RPG's the hardest, and if there's a war scene, it makes it close to impossible. My Fantasia 3 RPG has undergone 4 years of development, and yet it's not even half done.

This thread is the same as the last thread.

Bounds..












Jk.. but seriously, it really depends on how much effort you put into the map...some of RPG's are major crap, yet some are good.

This topic is currently too vague, I'll close it for now and add in some details in the 1st post today or tomorrow.