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This seems to be an omni-present issue in a lot of today's UMS maps, which I've spend a great deal of my cumulative time with triggers toying with, and feel this is something more important than many people are really aware of. I'm talking of course about how to handle selecting options in your maps, whether it be to purchase a unit in a defense game, cast a spell in an RPG, ban a player, start a movie sequence, move/create/give/order/remove/kill unit(s), etc.

Traditionally, the way to handle virtually all of these has been to manually drag a certain slow-ass, neutered terran hero unit to a beacon, hoping SC's pathfinding AI doesn't decide to give Mr. Hapless a detour to another nearby pathway/beacon/death trap, and that you can get the option to be selected in time to make a difference, like during a battle or in a time-based defense map. You get the picture.

Anyway instead of making a boring outline/overview of all possible alternative selecting systems, which'll inevitably have little room for discussion and'll probably fall into obscurity a few posts from now, I'm going to do something different. I'm gonna post a scenario, and you guys tell me what possible selection system(s) might work best for the given situation. This way, it'll get you to think about why this is important, and also to understand the options available beyond the tired old drag-the-gimpy-civilian-to-the-beacon-repeatedly routine.

Scenario- You have a total of 8 binary options (binary == on/off) you need to choose from for one player. Most of the game's normal units (men, common buildings, etc.) are already in use, but potentially with good trigger management you MIGHT be able to get these units to work for this purpose, but you're under a time constraint so you really can't afford to have to create or debug a set of potentially unecessary triggers to accomodate the process. The options have to be available in a relatively small area (an area enclosed in raised terrain in the shape of a wedge about half the size of the player's screen), and there can be absolutely no way for any of the units involved to escape, attack, or otherwise interact with anything on the outside (though casting vision is ok.)

What might work for this scenario?

P.S. These ARE real scenarios I've done/am doing, so I'm not pulling these out of my ass. I'll clarify details if necessary.

I'm nowhere close to a mapmaker; but wouldn't making an isolated Dark Archon with MC a good idea? You would have like 3 beacons (example) with 4 units (any) on each of them (with a constantly-have-4-units-there trigger). Once a civil is MCed, kill the unit, and whichever unit died for whichever player gets the "selected" unit.

Don't think I ever saw this... Could work... Maybe.

Good. Say for this case, though, that the mind control could potentially be used for units outside of the enclosure that come near. What else might work?

This is a great Idea for a topic tux.

This method uses very little space, no switches, not a lot of "usable" units, and so on. All 8 options can be enabled and disabled, and it was done in 16 triggers. Enjoy!

Oh goody, just the time to be away from my starcraft computer.

Any chance you could explain the just of it?

Aw nuts.

I basically used a simple terrain layout with "null" terrian. (attached below)

When the civ reaches the location, the triggers do two things:

COND
> If the player brings the civ to location '1'
> Player suffers 0 death of '0' ('0' is the unit name of the weird powerup)
ACTION
> Display '1 is enabled'
> Move civ back to the middle
> Set deaths of '0' to 1
> Preserve trigger

COND
> If the player brings the civ to location '1'
> Player suffers 1 death of '0' ('0' is the unit name of the weird powerup)
ACTION
> Display '1 is disabled'
> Move civ back to the middle
> Set deaths of '0' to 0
> Preserve trigger

I would just place a bunch of buildings and have the Players build units for the options. Easy, plus you can use hotkeys.

I thought he wanted to avoid moving the ever-path-missing-civilian o_O

Good job. Anyone think of anything that might work better? Otherwise I'll start with the next scenario.

EDIT- lol, you guys posted too quick. I'll remember to quote next time. Alright, lemme get the next scenario up...

Is it possible to make a trigger that says, when you SEE a unit, you can apply a trigger... Kinda like those crashing maps, except it would be intentionnal (not to crash, to trigger xD)

Would require quite alot of space though... And triggers... Ok, im outta this thread -_- hehe

Why do that? I'm sure people have their own methods as well. Just let bolt eat this topic at least

I've always felt that siege tanks are the best unit to use for a binary selection system. Nowadays you can set their attack to 0 with SCMDraft 2 so they won't be able to interact with anything outside of their area. I find that it's best to use unsieged tanks. When sieged, they change into sieged tanks immediately. Simply remove the sieged tank before it's even finished its transformation and create a new unsieged tank in its place. That's how I would do it. The only problem with this method is that you can't hotkey a tank, because they get removed and new tanks are created every time you siege 'em. You could hotkey a unit in the middle of the spell area, though. Or you could place each players' Start Location in the middle of their spell area and have them press F4 to be taken directly there.

That might work, though you'd need some form of recording (switches most likely) to mark when an option is selected. However according clokr's information, even if you set a tank to 0 dmg, it'll still inflict 1 hp of damage to any units it can hit.

That attachment looks very very familiar ...

Alright, new scenario, this time a bit harder:

You're making a special map that requires up to 30 options for EACH player, at the same time. You have ample units available to use (a few minor exceptions), but you need to make sure you can select a given option quickly and repeatedly, without having to move the view back over the option select area. This will obviously require some form of hotkeys. You have plenty of room for this location, but like before, you can't have any of the option select units able to interact or be interfered by outside units. No more than 2-3 seconds between option selects will be tolerable (consider that the absolute highest upper bound). The system can afford a small learning curve for the players during the start of the map, but it will have to become close to second nature very soon or else it will be too complicated.

What do you do?

My best guess:

Place a barracks and a gateway. You hotkey the barracks and gateway, hence 1 and 2. The learning curve is when you have to create 2 corresponding units that will create an option. Such as the creation of a marine and zealot will be one option. The problem is the combinations will only get up to 16. Otherwise, add a hatchery, which will break the rule of 2-3 seconds, unless your super fast. Plus it wont interfere with outter units since you remove the created units.

Sounds good, but a bit complex for most newbs. You could also have multiple factories too, usable with seperate hotkeys, though for each option you may need up to 8 factories, and you'd have to be sure all units built at the factories would not interfere with other triggers in the map (potential debugging and overhead problems).

Anything else?

Lets stop and think on this one;
Requirements:

• 30 Options
• 2/3 Second Length
• Hotkey'able
• Zero Interaction
• Large Room
• Zero Viewing

Well; we can rule out removing triggers, such as creating units, since those will need the user to hotkey them again, or is that not a problem? Having a DA with Mind Control couldn't work because you are making it so you don't have to view the area in question.

Possible options are left at the "factory" buildings, though not Zerg (Because of slow producing and the fact it would choose them all).
Barracks > Four
Factory > Three
Gateway > Four
Stargate > Four
Robotics > Three
(Nexus/Command) > 1

For the "30 Options" that would need Barracks and Factory, one of each. Ready?
You have them separated and the Barracks is used first, it has four possible options, and so one is choosen. These four are the MAIN MENU Selection.
You then have the Factory and choose one of the Three, these are now effected by your choice in the Barracks Location, and can have three more results so that gets it up to hmm, hard to say, would that be twelve, which isn't what you need, but this is just another way of writing what Pinecone added, in some more detail.

[Personal Edit]

All the above has been kept for later use if need be, below is my way of doing it, slightly different and arguing with the one above, so forgive me.

[/Personal Edit]

A Zerg Hatchery/Lair/Hive can have up to nice possible creations, this enables you much creator choice in what to produce, but with the limitation on Larva it can become a problem, yet this is also important, because creating three is a problem, or is it? Maybe having two of these types, and following the pattern set before, you select from one and then the other, and the number can be reduced so that some units are not made, else you have a possible 81 results, since its;
Location 1 = n
Location 2 = m
Result = R
n x m = R

Anyhow, if you reduce to 6 possible selections, such as units that are not going to be a major problem, so using;
Drone/Overlord/Hydralisk/Mutalisk/Queen/Defiler
Note Zergling and Scourge are removed, because its just annoying with the two, and Ultralisk is too large!
This gives you a possible 36 results, i know too many!
You can go for 5, and that will give 25 possible results if you prefer, and therefore is done fast.

I would advise having a check on the larva and keeping it at one, for the unit creation area, and remember thats it one, followed by the other.

This isn't a problem really, since its HotKey 1/S/'x' and then its done, and then repeat for Hotkey 2. This works as long as you don't have them repeating the triggers too quickly, so that the larva isn't built in time, and maybe have a trigger check so that once they've created one at one location they must complete at other location.

This could be done by giving Larva to another player, and only returning once its all done, and same for the unit made, also include maybe on of the none selected units to be used incase they want to stop the possible transaction.

If you choose the 6 choice then remember for the six possible results that cannot be done, to have something repeated, maybe the most important, and thats it worked out, like the 6th choice, on the second building it is the same for them all!

You forgot the Robotics [3] and Starport [5].

You didnt quite understand what l was getting at. I wanted combinations, like the creation of 2 marines. You wanted a menu and a sub-menu. l would have to say your idea is a little more confusing then mine, and having to remember what you just created, you have a factory right next to it. The noobs wouldnt have any idea what to do if they created a vulture but didnt create a marine. But that idea does seem good to a degree, for those who are pros.

The Hatchery idea is the same build on your sub-menu and menu. The problem is the extra 's'. This would add the amount of time. lt cant compare to 1/M.

Here's an idea(so what if it's stolen?!)(if it breaks any rules it's because I forgot abut the one in question)
The Dropship menu.
Unloading/Loading units will bring you to different parts of the menu.
It would only require 18 or so units, at most... wait, that's a lot.
1 for back, 16 for different numbers, 1 for telling players that unloading a unit will be choosing an option. Lastly, 1 Siege Tank to be sieged, which will tell players that unloading a unit named "1" when there's, say, a Zealot(for telling players that unloading a unit will be choosing an option), then so-and-so will happen, unloading a '2' when a Zealot's in there will do so-and so, and so on.
Credit to- Who was it? (U)Bolt_Head?

Guys, remember the user SHOULDN'T have to view the location, and since when did a starport have 5???

Stargate > Four
Robotics > Three

Just gave it a name that was wrong, and anyhow it is about a second slower, at the most!

hmm im not really a good mapper but what about having like 8 barraks in different locations, and making a different option for every unit created in whatever location, like creating a marine in area one amkes option 1 but making in it area 2 amkes option 5? wouldnt really work well with this many options maybe but otherwise tis an idea it would need 1-8 hotkeyed and then the 4 unit hotkeys in every barrack still are the same..

I believe the dropship would be the best option for you Tux, considering the possibilities, just take a look at bolt's grid location map. I can't see any way more perfected than that.

And what about using archons = OFF, dark archons = ON for display it? and kill the archon or dark swam for toogle it?

I was thinking, if you have Zerg Burrowing Units, and you have two locations, does that give you two possible states if you alter the area within the location?

hint hint...