Staredit Network

Just curious, because Uber@tion v3 is being made, and I'm not sure if SEN should support it. I say that if someone wants their map protected, then it should stay that way. Yes, people can learn from it, and that's wonderful, but I still don't like it. I think that discovering how something is done for yourself keeps the magic and art form in map making. I'm leaving it open to discussion.

Yes, as long as they don't unprotect the map.

Yes, keep it on SEN. The site is for people who need help (in some aspects) anyways...so leave it here for them.

However, I am against it myself.

As long as you can see the triggers and not open the map, I see no problem with it.

From what I understand, it only lets you view triggers and it doesn't unprotect anything so I don't get why it shouldn't be allowed.

As long as they can only view triggers and not copy those triggers. And I think it would be great for a mapmaker to have the ability to hide triggers from such a program if he or she wanted to.

I dont think they should be supported even though ive used em in the past *guilty* ( I cheked out chineese bound for my castspellbound) But sometimes you have very complicated triggers that you've worked very hard on and then some one just swoops in and takes credit when they haven't done anything cheked em out and copied em.

yes i beleive they are fine, its not like people are opening ur map and editing it

anyways

i really want to dl this program, the link to it way back dissapeareed and its not in the DLDB, can someone send it to me through aim or something?

I say that if people don't understand a concept, they should ASK, and figure it out for themselves rather than simply looking at how someone else did it.
Give a man a fish or teach a man to fish sorta thing.

I agree that it would be better to ask, but it's not really a reason to make it not allowed at this site..

How many people have actually learned from it?

People protect their maps for a reason ><. Ask or figure it out yourself like they probably did.

The whole "figuring out for yourself" thing just creates elitism, which isn't really a problem here so much lately (as far as I can tell) but doesn't really promote map making in general. If a map had something like passwords or something, like as part of the triggers, then it might be ok to disallow viewing triggers, but generally it's more useful I think to be able to see how things work in maps than not to, so I'll vote yes.

But not yes by a very wide margin, I must add.

This is one of those situations where, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

As for my vote:

Neither... Mainly because I am stuck between yes and no. So I'll leave it at that.

I'm on the fence with this one. Morally, I oppose it. However, it's mostly because I learned how to do triggers the hard way. I had learned most of what I know through trial and error before I ever even found this site. I would see something cool in a map and try and try and try to make something like it until I finally figured it out. I'm annoyed when something takes me a year or so to learn and someone else just blows through it in a month or two. Call that elitism if you want, but I believe excellence should be earned and not just given.

Of course, if I were still a total newb at it, I'd jump at the chance to view the triggers in maps that impressed me. Trigger viewing may also encourage what I call "map overload," where they have to put EVERYTHING they think is cool into one map and it ends up being an overblown, nonsensical spectacle.

Now that I've written that out, I say "Yes". Getting free lessons in a certain craft won't make someone an artist. Who knows, maybe someone with genuine talent may be discouraged by the unavailability of a tool like this. I think there may be an uprise in "OMG! Look whut I can do" maps, but it could potentially bring out some true map artists.

Well one thing that I have noticed in a semi-related feild.
Terraining. People have access to maps with lots of editable extended tile blends, but they do not nessisarily learn from it, eg. there are still many people who ask "how do you guys do all that stuff?"
Even though they could open one of our maps and see exactly the peices we used. Just sorta similar in my eyes.

But as a mp maker, we all know we would like to be the best right? If people use trigger viewer then that creates more competition.

There is actually no use in trigger viewer from the point of novice mapper who wants to learn. It is very hard to find/understand what and how someone else has made in his triggers. Even with comments it is hard to navigate trough hundreds of triggers.

If a novice mapper really doesn't understand something he can always ask the author.
Or ask it in our help forums. And don't forget about the countless tutorials we has about everything

So trigger viewer would mostly be used for bad stuff...

I think it's fine, but in Uber@tion 3 there should be an option in its trigger editor, like a checkbox, "Hide from Trigger Viewer". MindArchon should not try to defeat this protection. This way, if you want to hide a trigger, you can, but if you don't, its okay. If its not possible, try the same thing but with the entire map.

No.

Your map, your property, your privacy. It should all depend on the author, whether he thinks it's alright for you to look into his triggers or not.

If you guys really want to learn how to do complex triggers and stuff, using this trigger viewer is NOT the way to do it. First of all, it only allows you to see the triggers. Not the map, not the unit placement, not the locations. To fully understand the triggers, you have to know about the map itself, such as the unit placements, locations, etc.

I say No.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, can learn by just looking at the triggers, to learn you need to make them by yourself. Triggers will have many different variables, be it switches, death coutns, units, etc... and to fully understand how it works, you will need to view all of the triggers.

We already have those triggers in the Tutorials Database and you can ask for them in the Help Forum.

That brings us back to this question:

I haven't seen many posts saying they have. Considering you're putting in Über@tion 3 (which prompted this, by the way), I'd rethink what you're doing.

I've learned from it. I dissected HotH to learn some stuff, back when the first version of Triger Vuiewer came out.