Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nyzse on 2006-03-01 at 07:03:09
I just got into playing a few mods and just kinda wondering what I could do with my own mods.
1) The only thing I really wanna do is change some terrain around (backwards ramp, more levels of terrain that act the same as they do in regular sc (so really high ground > highground has the same effects as highground > regular ground).
2) can you make a forth race? every mod i've seen so far has just changed the origonal races...
3) chaning sprite limit, and other base limits (valks could finaly work in masse =P)
4) I highly doubt you can do these but no harm in asking so..., can you change the hotkey and unit selection systems? (if that requires any coding I know c++ and could work on it that way, but seems like that would be changing the actual program, not the stuff it reads off of).
1) The only thing I really wanna do is change some terrain around (backwards ramp, more levels of terrain that act the same as they do in regular sc (so really high ground > highground has the same effects as highground > regular ground).
2) can you make a forth race? every mod i've seen so far has just changed the origonal races...
3) chaning sprite limit, and other base limits (valks could finaly work in masse =P)
4) I highly doubt you can do these but no harm in asking so..., can you change the hotkey and unit selection systems? (if that requires any coding I know c++ and could work on it that way, but seems like that would be changing the actual program, not the stuff it reads off of).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DiscipleOfAdun on 2006-03-01 at 09:48:03
Well, I try to answer.
1. I don't know. I've don't really mess with terrain.
2. No. You have rape the exe to even attempt it. This is so hardcoded, no-one can really do it.
3. Not really. This still is totally screwing the exe with hex edit changes, but it is more possible than the races.
4. Depends on what you want to do. You can change the key that becomes a hotkey when on a unit by editing stat_txt.tbl. How units are selected are different, that is deep in the exe. Not much to do here.
1. I don't know. I've don't really mess with terrain.
2. No. You have rape the exe to even attempt it. This is so hardcoded, no-one can really do it.
3. Not really. This still is totally screwing the exe with hex edit changes, but it is more possible than the races.
4. Depends on what you want to do. You can change the key that becomes a hotkey when on a unit by editing stat_txt.tbl. How units are selected are different, that is deep in the exe. Not much to do here.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nyzse on 2006-03-01 at 15:05:38
What would "raping" the exe intel (sp?), like I said I know c++ so if stuff like that is accesable without getting the source files and modding them myself (which wouldthen be undistributable because of the illegality of that (or sence the game is this old do they really care? (they don't care enough to realese decent patchs, so maybe =P)), and I do realize modding the source isn't at all as easy as just doing the mpq edits and things, and unless the races are all done by classes (which most likely isn't the case) then itwould be near impossible to add in a fourth one and would probobly be simplier to design your own RTS from scrath =P.
Really I don't care more than to do simple terrain work just to play around with it, but just curious what is doable...
Really I don't care more than to do simple terrain work just to play around with it, but just curious what is doable...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DiscipleOfAdun on 2006-03-01 at 15:33:29
Well, I believe that it would include finding and resizeing anything that is based off the race number and would crash if an extra one was added. a ton of normal modding changes, such as the .bin files would need to be changed, along with the grp's that show the icons. I know that c++ might be able to do some of it in the exe, but there's just too much to do. an easier but still difficult task would be making the .dat files load from maps if they exist in the map.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nyzse on 2006-03-01 at 15:50:56
For the forth race thing, maybe a simple work-around could just be...
1) Make the forth race be all new units inside another race (just add new units and rename them and treat them as if they where another race)
2) Of caurse then the race isn't selectable so, you have to make the base building have a "morph" feature to change it into the base buidling (command cneter type thing) of the new race.
3) to make it symetrical you can just give each starting base no abilities and they all have to morph into which race you want (so if you pick terran then you start with a command center, and your 4 scvs. your command center and your scvs are dummy versions so they have no abilities except... they can morph into real command center, real hatchery, real nexus, (by real I mean the one you create as an aditional building but it has the real ablities of the origonal starting base of each race instead of being dummy) or the forth building, and then your fake scvs are destroyed and reaplaced with the real miners of that race.
Hopefully this all works like I think it does, and with it you can create an infinate number of races (limited by the limit of new units you can create of caruse, but still there are thousands of those)...
edit
and someone pointed out to me that those things in SCMDraft where you type in the ID (like 2008 gets you some weird unit, and all the way up into the high thousands all have (usualy useless) units) aren't really units (I still don't understand how they are there and have their own atributes but aren't really units), but I have to use all the stuff I can get into in scmdraft which still gives you enough room to do 4 units with this system, but it also takes up spells (which I also thought where unlimited) so it's still doable, but you can't make too many units, and you can't have too many spells for the new race cause every new one takes away one from another race. (unless there are some unused spells somewhere (doubt it)).
edit...
ok so you can get the ASM code of starcraft, which from there I guess you can find and copy paste code for a unused sc unit over and over (changing it's id each time) and doing the same for a spell? then you can edit those spells and change them around in a more readable program.
I know I should start with something simplier, but this has just got me curious =P, and I do know some basic assembler, I took a break from learning it a few days ago to try out smoething new and am now getting into modding as that something new....and now I need to learn some assembler to do modding, how ironic =P.
1) Make the forth race be all new units inside another race (just add new units and rename them and treat them as if they where another race)
2) Of caurse then the race isn't selectable so, you have to make the base building have a "morph" feature to change it into the base buidling (command cneter type thing) of the new race.
3) to make it symetrical you can just give each starting base no abilities and they all have to morph into which race you want (so if you pick terran then you start with a command center, and your 4 scvs. your command center and your scvs are dummy versions so they have no abilities except... they can morph into real command center, real hatchery, real nexus, (by real I mean the one you create as an aditional building but it has the real ablities of the origonal starting base of each race instead of being dummy) or the forth building, and then your fake scvs are destroyed and reaplaced with the real miners of that race.
Hopefully this all works like I think it does, and with it you can create an infinate number of races (limited by the limit of new units you can create of caruse, but still there are thousands of those)...
edit
and someone pointed out to me that those things in SCMDraft where you type in the ID (like 2008 gets you some weird unit, and all the way up into the high thousands all have (usualy useless) units) aren't really units (I still don't understand how they are there and have their own atributes but aren't really units), but I have to use all the stuff I can get into in scmdraft which still gives you enough room to do 4 units with this system, but it also takes up spells (which I also thought where unlimited) so it's still doable, but you can't make too many units, and you can't have too many spells for the new race cause every new one takes away one from another race. (unless there are some unused spells somewhere (doubt it)).
edit...
ok so you can get the ASM code of starcraft, which from there I guess you can find and copy paste code for a unused sc unit over and over (changing it's id each time) and doing the same for a spell? then you can edit those spells and change them around in a more readable program.
I know I should start with something simplier, but this has just got me curious =P, and I do know some basic assembler, I took a break from learning it a few days ago to try out smoething new and am now getting into modding as that something new....and now I need to learn some assembler to do modding, how ironic =P.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by nirvanajung on 2006-03-01 at 19:23:12
that just like usemap setting
if could not choose another race at before starting play
like this ...
--------------
random
Terran
Zerg
Protoss
New races
--------------
then result will same as original
if could not choose another race at before starting play
like this ...
--------------
random
Terran
Zerg
Protoss
New races
--------------
then result will same as original
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nyzse on 2006-03-01 at 19:30:26
I know it woulden't give it a new selection thing, that is why I said the command center morph thing, only problem is that takes up more spell slots, so now I'm trying to figure out how to get more spells 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2006-03-01 at 20:14:21
The problem is that the Morph Building action is hardcoded to specific buildings... although I'm not sure, can FireGraft get around that DoA?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nyzse on 2006-03-01 at 21:13:08
just use a hatchery for all races as the dummy building?
and can anyone answer me on if it is possible to get more units/spells by adding them with hex editing or any other method?
and can anyone answer me on if it is possible to get more units/spells by adding them with hex editing or any other method?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TERRAINFIGHTER on 2006-03-01 at 21:40:55
QUOTE(Nyzse @ Mar 1 2006, 09:13 PM)
and can anyone answer me on if it is possible to get more units/spells by adding them with hex editing or any other method?
[right][snapback]437358[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]437358[/snapback][/right]
Yes, that is possible but it would be VERY hard and would take Very Long...
not to mention all the work would be useless after the next patch
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2006-03-01 at 22:16:24
Well, as far as I know adding new unit entries was possible with SCEX, which worked for an older patch (1.07). However... there are plenty of unused entries that are easier to work with.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nyzse on 2006-03-01 at 23:07:43
but are there new spells, and yea looking at Arsenal III there is alot of stuff to work with but it would still be nice to be able to create your own. It dosen't seem right that the number of spells and number of units and stuff like that is in the actual code, rather than the files that store the actual unit info.
Although if what you say is true, that you could easily add units (and spells?) before 1.07 then I could see them changing the way it works just to stop people from doing exactly what we're trying to do, does anyone know if this is the case?
edit...
and what exactly is SCXE? I thought that was X-tra edit, but aperently it's somethign else too...
edit...
I missed terrain's post, they actualy patch this stuff? I could understand a while ago when it was a big thing, and starcraft was their majoir game, but I didn't know they would care enough to patch it now
Although if what you say is true, that you could easily add units (and spells?) before 1.07 then I could see them changing the way it works just to stop people from doing exactly what we're trying to do, does anyone know if this is the case?
edit...
and what exactly is SCXE? I thought that was X-tra edit, but aperently it's somethign else too...
edit...
I missed terrain's post, they actualy patch this stuff? I could understand a while ago when it was a big thing, and starcraft was their majoir game, but I didn't know they would care enough to patch it now
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DiscipleOfAdun on 2006-03-02 at 09:52:42
QUOTE(Voyager7456(MM) @ Mar 1 2006, 06:14 PM)
The problem is that the Morph Building action is hardcoded to specific buildings... although I'm not sure, can FireGraft get around that DoA?
[right][snapback]437284[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]437284[/snapback][/right]
If I want it to....
QUOTE(Nyzse @ Mar 1 2006, 09:07 PM)
but are there new spells, and yea looking at Arsenal III there is alot of stuff to work with but it would still be nice to be able to create your own. It dosen't seem right that the number of spells and number of units and stuff like that is in the actual code, rather than the files that store the actual unit info.
Although if what you say is true, that you could easily add units (and spells?) before 1.07 then I could see them changing the way it works just to stop people from doing exactly what we're trying to do, does anyone know if this is the case?
edit...
and what exactly is SCXE? I thought that was X-tra edit, but aperently it's somethign else too...
edit...
I missed terrain's post, they actualy patch this stuff? I could understand a while ago when it was a big thing, and starcraft was their majoir game, but I didn't know they would care enough to patch it now
[right][snapback]437477[/snapback][/right]
Although if what you say is true, that you could easily add units (and spells?) before 1.07 then I could see them changing the way it works just to stop people from doing exactly what we're trying to do, does anyone know if this is the case?
edit...
and what exactly is SCXE? I thought that was X-tra edit, but aperently it's somethign else too...
edit...
I missed terrain's post, they actualy patch this stuff? I could understand a while ago when it was a big thing, and starcraft was their majoir game, but I didn't know they would care enough to patch it now
[right][snapback]437477[/snapback][/right]
'Spells' per se, are acutally a very complicated web of .dat files and asm. I've had this discussion before, with a mapper who saw it differently. However, basically, here's the way spells work.
Each spell is interconnected in techdata/weapons/order/iscript. They are also tied to the buttons and units through the exe. So, here's the what happens when you cast a spell.
1. You push the button.
2. The exe checks the energy and all the other things that can stop the action.
3. The exe checks multi-player, and then sends a packet based on that.
4. The information is interpreted and some additional checks are made for the action. Sometime around here, you get a targeting cursor to get your target.
5. After your target is selected, it reads orders.dat for all the info on that order.
6. If needed, an iscript animation is called.
7. Information for the affects/energy is again read, all from techdata/weapons/orders. This is done either on the castspell command or internally, based on the spell.
8. The exe runs code to create the weapon, runs its script, and applys the effect to the affected unit.
That's bascially how it works, give or take some stuff. Adding new ones requires either a sacrafice of multiplayer(like 1.07 SCR), or uber asm(which Firegraft should make easier....hopefully).
The .dat sizes are in the exe for a reason. Because Starcraft does not use dynamic memory, all the space has to be set aside by the exe. That's why you get an incorrect command length error when you try to extend the .dat files. StarEx(ScEx), was able to find that data and to extend how much it looked for. It had its fallbacks, because Images.dat couldn't ever work properly(trust me, I updated starex for 1.12b and 1.13a, never released because of this and a PE header writing error).
Patches normally come to stop new bugs/hacks. However, they don't really do much except scramble offsets now. Besides, the last one made more problems with the rally bug.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nyzse on 2006-03-02 at 14:47:05
so basicly right now, it is doable with ASM editing the exe (which is doable, but impractical), but this program firegraft (details?) will be able to do some editing of the exe, when is this program coming out? what exaclty will it be able to do? where is some info on it?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DiscipleOfAdun on 2006-03-03 at 10:07:53
Well, doable is a real stretch.
I'm not really putting to much up about firegraft. Info is pretty scattered around. The most clear explanation is on Soveriegn Modding Empire, the second news post. More to come later, when it is more done.
I'm not really putting to much up about firegraft. Info is pretty scattered around. The most clear explanation is on Soveriegn Modding Empire, the second news post. More to come later, when it is more done.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by [SmC]DiNO-X on 2006-03-07 at 13:29:15
I have appled bounce gemini missiles and the game is crashed
What can i do?
or I only need use another weapon?
What can i do?
or I only need use another weapon?Report, edit, etc...Posted by TERRAINFIGHTER on 2006-03-07 at 13:37:00
Edit the missiles offset in Iscript.bin so it supports the missile bouncing