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Guide to RPG Making


These are some simple and complex steps for those who want to make their own SC/BW RPGish map.


DISCLAIMER (AKA "Why the hell should I listen to this guy?"): I have been playing SC since April 98 and BW since December 98 and mapmaking and modding since, oh, spring-summer 98. I've learned a few tricks (well, no, I've learned a potpourri of tricks) and I'm here to help YOU because...

1: I'm a nice guy.

2: I want to help you.

3: We need more worthy RPGMs (RPGish maps) and makers!

4: A lot of the "RPGs" out there...SUCK!

5: The guide that inspired me to write this....SUCKS! (Sorry SCmaps.com. I won't get into the details.)


0: Before you start, realize a few things...

0a: Making RPG maps is A LOT OF WORK, however, it can also be enjoying and profitable in the terms of good feelings.

0b: Unless you are very skilled with triggers, plan on testing almost every addition to them. (And 'Always>>Display Leaderboard for Most Kills' is one of those you don't need to test right away.)

0c: Plan on having public beta tests if multiplayer and more closed betas (look for friends in the SC/BW community) and have them pick out bugs. Because they're VERY likely to develop in any plan.

0d: Get your programs in line. Mapcolor and placer patches (emerald, SCEP, HIM, etc.) are long-existing standards for mapmaking on the multiplayer scene, and Stardraft and Stargraft to some extent on the single player scene, so get them if you lack them. (www.campaigncreations.com/starcraft has Mapcolor, www.infoceptor.com has SCEP and www.scmaps.com has HIM. www.camsys.org has Stardraft/graft, but the others probably do too.)

0e: Be prepared to ask for help. It's a blow to your pride (probably), but a boost to your map. And more people will play your map than you, unless it sucks, in which case you should go elsewhere, but anyway. The point is: Get help if you need it, but don't expect anyone or everyone to do work for you besides suggesting.

0f: Know that there are some ugly limits out there, such as the fact that most Bnetters won't spend 5 minutes DLing a map, or that you won't be able to write a long novel in one map. THERE IS A TEXT LIMIT IN ALL SC/BW MAPS AS OF 1.07! That limit is 1024 strings of text, which I believe to be lines. And if you don't think that goes fast, here's a small breakdown. 255 locations/text strings, 10-40 for the briefing, maybe 100 for units and many for actual in-game text. Comments drive down the available text strings so quickly, so be prepared to delete them to make room for more in-game text.

0g: Don't expect to complete a whole map at once, or in one session- you probably won't. And if you do, you'll probably regret it (and probably have no other life).

1: Get an idea. If you don't have a good idea for plot, battle mechanics, story, etc., your map will fail.

2: Look at the competition. If you like it and it works, you're probably free to take it. Personally, a giant Badlands cave with tasks on opposite ends isn't that appealing, and would be recreating the wheel, or Padorath's Return if you prefer. (I'm not alone on this view, trust me.)

3: Determine how many players will be in the game. (Also relative to 4.)

4: Set a relative difficulty. (From "Timid" to "HOLY $#|+!", also relative to 3.)

5: Figure out what units you will use, and for what purpose.

6: (Now, the hard part..) Start on the terrain.

6a: For RPGs, I -don't- recommend the Ash, Badlands and Space Platform tilesets. There have been RPGs made for all terrains, but using those severely limits you!

6b: If you don't know what size you want, get 256x256. It's easier to block off areas of maps than it is to expand a map if/once you realize yours is too small. (And I've tried and tried and tried....)

7: Complete the terrain; be detailed and artistic. (It might help to start on 8.) Remember, atmosphere helps!

7a: This is probably the hardest thing to start, especially with larger maps. However, once you have a pretty set terrain, you'll be anywhere from ~1/8 to 1/2 done with your 'frame'. (See next subsection.)

8: Get going on the triggers. You may need to inter work this with terrain, so I'm leaving it up to you to decide how much terrain and trig work must be done at a time.

8a: After you have your terrain done and trigs working well, it's time to set up a 'frame'. This is your base for how your map will operate. Frames include the essentials- prices for units, unit stats, area layout, types of foes per area, plot details- and if these are all balanced now, it'll save time later. Just know that nothing's final until you state it is.

8b: An example of a 'frame' is something like this: One working town with a heal station, a recruitment center and an upgrade place, as well as a few outside spots with things to kill/objectives to reach.

9: Implement doodads in appropriate spots. (If you have mention of an area being a cemetery on a jungle map in a dirt area, you could and probably should put some skeletons there.)

9b: If you can, don't use the control-D menu Door and Trap doodads, they're more difficult to use while yielding similar/the same effects.

10: Unit time! If you haven't already done so, (and you probably have, in coordination with the triggers.... Anyway...) set up unit stats. A glorious thing about SC is the ability to modify values, set ultra units if desired, but I won't get into that.

10a: Considerations for units should include abilities possessed (upgrades and spells), movement speed, damage type, attack speed, atmosphere (it doesn't help to have planes in a place where metal hasn't been used for more than medievalish items, except perhaps as a plot twist) number of hits and perhaps more. Unit numbers, like number of hits per kill on average and ability/spell costs figure into difficulty. Also, the ability to get new/more/better units must be factored in.

10b: Upgrade buildings, if you use them for the players, must be put somewhere. It's up to you to decide if they're always available or must be toggled in a certain area (town?).

10c: Possible "best units" given the right stats:

-Marine: Normal damage, ranged, can hit air and ground, has fastest attack and move rate of any ground ranged unit while stimmed, except vultures.

-Zergling: Regen, burrowing, plus the fastest attack and movement speed of any land unit, except vultures for movement, they're equal.

-Tassadar Templar: Shields and HP meter, ranged, normal attack, and Storm and Hallucination spells that are at least useful distractions.

-Trainable Dark Templar/Zeratul: Permanently cloaked- Zeratul has a faster attack, but the trainable Templar has faster movement speed with Leg Enhancements researched. Shields, also.

-Archon: Fairly quick movement speed, can't be broodlinged, ground and air attack in one, normal splash damage and shields.

-Dark Archon: Brief paralyzation of organic units and Mind Control. Sometimes, Feedback as well.

-Goliath: Best unit for GTA attacks with Charons, repairable, longer range than Marine.

-Tank: With Siege Mode researched, THE LONGEST REACHING GROUND TO GROUND ATTACKER THERE IS. I just had to say that. Also, repairable.

-Wraith: Cloakable flyer that can hit air and ground that's also quick and repairable.

-Carrier: Mass interceptors, also has shields.

-Corsair: Fastest ATA attacker available, splash damage, normal damage, quick from the start, shields and one of the most powerful abilities on the Protoss side: Disruption Web!

-Mutalisk: Regen, normal damage flyer that hits up to 3 foes per attack, also quick.

-Firebat: Quick attack with Stim, splash damage. Zerglin's, beware!

-Queen: Broodling and Ensnare. All you need to know.

11: Polish your map. Not that you print it out and rub it with a rag, but pay more attention to detail and criticism. If you don't like the colors provided (like you want everyone mango), you can alter them with SCMToolkit or GUedit (check the sites mentioned before). Secrets are a nice touch, though add protection (like making sure the last boss can't be player-handled). And secrets can be minor (like a cash bonus) to something unbelievable (a new ending, or such).

12: Create an interesting and helpful briefing (like anyone ever reads it...). Suggestions on format.

Page 1: Instructions/Features

Page 2: More instructions if needed/Features if needed/Story

Page 3: More story if needed/Credits

Going back to 11, you could put hints to secrets in the briefing near the end (because SO few people ever read to the end these days, pfah!). Also, make sure your mission objectives are the way you want them, or be ready to have a trig that changes them soon after entering the map.

12a: For speaking during the briefing, make sure a logical person is doing it. It generally isn't good form to have 4 flags flying with something like:

"Damrin:

We've lost 'em!"

12b: Make sure you times line up! Your wait, display time and speaking animation should be the same unless you have something else (odd?) planned.

12c: Ensure your display time is long enough. It helps to speak the lines and add a half second or two.

12d: Mission objectives can be a good place to put prices (9000, 16000 and 50000 are level ups!).

12e: You've probably seen it before, and may be anxious to try it (I don't recommend it, but...). What I mean is animation in the objectives. (Like creating pieces of a star then assembling them.) If you feel you MUST put in such animation, save it for after the main text.

13: Sounds. This is a big issue of quality vs download time, so use your discretion. If you want sounds to play when units "talk" to them, I suggest having categories. For normal, play a sound like "Transmission". For beasts, play "Roar", etc. And if you (and the other players) can manage the extra time for a secrets-only sound (I REALLY recommend Kefka laughing for this one), go ahead. But realize that most people aren't patient enough to sit through a map that's more than 200k.

14: Packaging. "It isn't that you have something to sell. It's that you sell what you're selling." It's a marketing rule- noone will buy it (or DL it in this case) if they don't know it exists. They also probably won't get it if they heard that it sucks. You must make it appealing, (this also goes to 11) and the word I'm thinking of is "grammar". Proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, capitalization and other literary devices are key- you know, the stuff you probably mentally slept through in language class. Type it like a term paper, because it's being considered about the same way by players and would-be downloaders.

15: Self-return address it, or not. Some authors like to remain unknown for their work (most people don't know that $4.99 made Demon Incubus), and that's fine by some people. Most, however, want credit for their work. Feel free to insert your name, mail, ICQ, AIM and other contacts into the credits, mission objectives, etc.

16: Prepare for distribution. If you feel everything's ready; bugs are squashed, features implemented, plot sound, units work, everything is where you want it, then prepare to send it out to the masses as a beta or a finished copy through a chain of friends on Bnet or/and popular SC/BW websites (listed above, also Mission Delta at Drop.to/MD). BEWARE, sending out a beta as a final copy will piss off some people, to let yas know.

17: Section for modding. Alright, so you've sent it out and you find something wrong/missing? Go ahead and mod it, but beware of sending out many new versions of maps to sites, they don't appreciate it. Consider maybe -2- new versions per day, and that's probably stretching it. Just be sure to relabel your map with a higher number, letter or/and element name.

18: Section for modders. So you found an RPG you like and want to make it better? Alright, assuming it isn't protected like most maps are, this is what you must do to improve it: Learn the map like the creator did. Know what custom scores go to which effects, switches, etc. Make sure to keep at least one backup copy of the original because something could go terribly wrong!


Appendix E. Some Helpful Tricks

1: Respawning foes. There are 2 main ways to do this, either when players have a unit in an area, or when they don't have units in an area. (Such as GOODIES Bring At Most 0 Men to Fight Respawn>> Create 2 Flamers at Fight Respawn, Wait 30,000 ms, Preserve Trigger.)

2: Inventory system. There are multiple ways of doing an inventory system, however, I favor one the most, that's the type seen in Demon Incubus. Explanation of system:

Each player has a worker. Items, like crystals, are 'used' by moving the worker and the item onto a pad and dropped by moving a worker and item onto another pad.

More detailed explanation:


You'll need 4 locations- 1 for items to appear, 1 for workers to go after they drop, 1 to use items and 1 to drop items.


=Check off each player number to participate

=CURRENT PLAYER brings at least 1 (worker) to Use Item, ALL PLAYERS brings at least 1 (item type) to Use Item

-Preserve Trigger.

-Remove all (item type) at Use Item for ALL PLAYERS

-Desired effect, like SET CURRENT PLAYER's HIT POINTS to 100%



Drop Item Pad:

=Check off each player number to participate

=CURRENT PLAYER brings at least 1 (worker) to Drop Item, ALL PLAYERS brings at least 1 (item type) to Drop Item

-Remove all (worker) at Drop Item for CURRENT PLAYER

-Create 1 (worker) at Worker Creation Spot for CURRENT PLAYER

-Move all units representing items to Item Move Spot

-Preserve Trigger


Buying an item:

=Check off each player number to participate

=CURRENT PLAYER brings at least 1 (unit type, usually MEN) to Alchemist's Shop

=CURRENT PLAYER accumulates at least 20 ore (or gas, or ore AND gas, or CURRENT PLAYER has at least SCORE AMOUNT)

-CREATE 1 'Heal Crystal' (Uraj Crystal) at Item Move Spot for current player

-Set resources (score) for CURRENT PLAYER: Subtract 20 ore (score amount)

-Preserve


3: Uses of Comments. Comments are mainly meant for organizational purposes, such as labeling a 20 effect trigger as "Cutscene 1". Just know that comments suck up available text strings faster than anything else I've used.


4: Comments and Preserve Trigger can be placed anywhere in the trigger effects work. However, having multiple Preserves or Comments won't help- it's redundant for Preserve and only the first comment typed out will be displayed.


5: Units that appear near a hero. A simple one- use MOVE LOCATION to move a location (P1 Loc) to a player's units. Example:


=Have a location (or more, depending on your needs, this example only uses one) for each player unit you want to have a location for.

=Decide which unit(s) you want to have a location center on them.

=P1 commands exactly 1 Marine

-Move P1 Loc to Marine at Anywhere

-Preserve


6: Different 'talk' responses. Use a randomized switch and different text for set and cleared. Of course, the more detailed way:


=Player brings at least 1 men to Talking

=Random Talk 1 is cleared

-Display text

-Wait

(etc)

-Randomize Talk 1

-Preserve


And the other one, which is the same as this one only with the switch set.


7: Units "starting" with kills. Alright, this is just for atmosphere, but 'tis still useful anyway. Place/spawn weak units that can be easily killed by the foes you want to get the kills. Know that the players/forces must be enemies, or this won't work well. (If used for one unit at a time, a location can be moved to that unit and units of an opposing force can be forced to move to it.) Also, remove units in this fight zone if the heroes get close if needed.


=Place/spawn units for Player 1

-Set Player 1 and Player 2 to enemies

-Set HP for all Player 2 units to 100% (or make invincible, but 100% tends to work better)

-Preserve


=Heroes bring at least 1 men to Fight Zone

=Player 1 commands at least 1 units in Fight Zone

-Remove all units for Player 1 at Fight Zone


8: Doors. These are easier than people make them out to be to do. Anyway, when a group doesn't have any units of a type in the door area, enable doodad state there (close it), and vice versa.


=Heroes bring at least 1 men to Door

(=Door Unlocked is set)

-Disable doodad state for DOOR TYPE for all players at Door

-Preserve


9: Switches. I don't know why you'd be reading this if you didn't know how to operate switches, but since they're a helpful part of mapmaking, I'll include them. (Note: All switches are cleared when maps start unless toggled.)


=Any action (Player 1 commands at least 1 unit)

-Set Switch 1 (Player 1 Lives)

And...

=Switch 1 is set

-Set score for Player 1: Add 500 Kills


10: Custom score. This can be used in place of switches as one condition, unless you want to use separate customs for various players (which gets confusing). Just define an action and set a score. (Note: All scores start at 0 when maps start unless changed.)


=Any action (Player 1 brings at least 1 men to Start Quest)

-Set custom score for PLAYER to WHATEVER (1)


11: Player class system. You have a map where players can change hero units, and you want deaths to respawn the right unit. Have a switch per player per unit that tells what unit to spawn.


=Player 1 brings at least 1 men to Become Wizard

-Remove all men for CURRENT PLAYER at Become Wizard

-Create 1 Wizard at Spawn for CURRENT PLAYER

-Set switch: Player 1 is Wizard

-Preserve

And...

=Player 1 commands at most 0 men (or Wizard)

=Player 1 is Wizard is set

-Create 1 Wizard at Spawn for CURRENT PLAYER

(-Set score: 0 kills)

(-Display text, etc)

-Preserve


12: Getting new trigger-based abilities. This combines some of the idea of 11, so read it if you haven't.

=Any action, probably not Always (like bringing to a location)

(=Switch is set, like for a unit's death)

-Set Switch (Player 1 has Ogre form)

(-Display text, etc)


13: Using new trigger-based abilities. You need some system (probably like the suggested inventory listed above) to activate these abilities. I recommend having a spot on the map saved for this.

=Any action, probably Bring

=Switch (Player 1 has Ogre form) is set

=Have a location available for centering on the player.

-Move location (Change) to 1 Warrior owned by Player 1 at Anywhere

-Remove all Warrior for CURRENT PLAYER at Change

-Create 1 Ogre at Change for CURRENT PLAYER


14: Unit theft deterrent. If a player gets ahold of a unit they shouldn't have at a certain time, well, you can punish them anyway you like, but this just shows the basics.

=Heroes command at least 1 MegaDeathBoss

-Give all MegaDeathBoss for Heroes at Anywhere to Meanies

(-Kill all men for Heroes)

-Preserve


15: Earthquake effect. You may know of this, but this makes a large amount of burrowed lurkers in an area.


=Any action (probably not Always)

-Create # Lurkers at Earthquake Epicenter

(-Play sound)

(-Center view around the earthquake area in several locations to give the effect of shaking)


16: Commonly used effects. Create a switch for each condition and you should be set.


(Switch)

=P8 to Heroes is set

-Give all men owned by Player 8 at Anywhere to Heroes (assuming this is a 1 player map, individual units to players are required for more)

-Clear P8 to Heroes

-Preserve


(Other Trigger)

=Any action

-Set P8 to Heroes

(-Etc)



17: Order puzzles. You can use a variety of things for this, custom score, deaths of units or switches (what I recommend).


=Someone brings something somewhere

-Set score/deaths/switch

(-Etc)


=Score/deaths/switch is -whatever-

=Someone brings something to Correct Location 2

-Whatever


=Score/deaths/switch is -whatever- (for #2)

=Someone brings something to Correct Location 3

-Set score/deaths/switch to -whatever- (reset it to the start)


Boss Suggestions Area


#1 Know what abilities the heroes have and try to make them use those as effectively as possible.


#2 Boss fights should be taxing, but always have a way to win (like having a unit with high armor/shield levels, but having a defiler/templar among the heroes).


#3 Maybe give hints beforehand about a boss's nature or/and weakness. If fighting a tanker that doesn't like tank mode, maybe give that hint away.


#4 Scripted nukes and other powerful units work well, but only if the heroes can withstand them or someone is meant to die.


#5 Rewarding players for exploration (such as follower or control of guns in a room) is nice.


#6 Know how difficult things will approximately be. Yamato does 260 before armor, plague does about 400, irradiate about 300, 1.08 storm does 112 and 1.07- does 128.


Appendix Z. General Info

-Trigs that end the map or set the next map don't need PRESERVE.

-Triggers are checked every 2 game seconds.

-Depending on game speed and lag, game speed can be out of sync with clock speed.

-Respawning foes might be a good idea for your map, or not. It's another factor for you to figure out.

-The sites above have other tutorials and files that might be worth checking out/using for your map.

-Protecting maps decreases map size, but tends to increase frustration.

-If you want to keep credit for yourself in a nonprotected map, put in some form of your name in a manner that makes it difficult to remove.

-Cutscenes/movies can be great additions to your map. However, know when to quit with them.

-Consistancy helps. Even down to the color of someone's name- if you make it green the first time and red the next three times, something's probably wrong there.

-Be prepared to revise your map over and over and over and...

-There is much that isn't covered in this guide that you can find on the net or/and in the help file.


Phew! This is much more than I expected the guide would be, but anyway, I hope this helps someone!


And of course, because I preached it..


Guide by Endarire

Mail: R340@Execpc.com, R340@wi.rr.com, Endarire@hotmail.com

ICQ: 33013974 and 43937461

AIM, Bnet, Kali and most other places: Endarire


-EE "Part of the reason I complete things is because I don't know how big they'll be"


"When you're willing to become a gambler and put your dignity at stake, and you think all other things are right, it's about then that you should think yourself done and ready."


March 5, 2001

Last Modded: March 15, 2001

uhhhhh..alright, I really dont need an RPG Guide so i only read half of it....but ok. And one thing i do agree on: We need more RPG Maps! stop massing the Same defenses with Minor changes and calling it a new map! or stop making Amillion bounds that are the same thing! Crank out teh RPGs!

That is a nice long guide. I have been around awhile as well Moogle. I have mainly been interested in making RPGs over my career and I am also ashamed of the current RPGs and lack of these played on bnet. My only real finished project is Sorcery RPG and it was completed about 4 years ago. I look back now and see how much better the map could be if I reworked it. Sadly, I have not seen many RPG maps played on bnet much better than this 4 year old map. What is even more sad is that when I now host Sorcery RPG, someone almost always leaves in the first 2 minutes because they are mad that they are a medic or defiler and do not even read the screen to realize that they have summoning spells. So hopefully my new RPG will please the veterans like moogle and the bnet masses. I don't know if you mentioned it in your guide, but it is really important to guide new players to cut down on this problem. For example, my map asks if they are a new player or not in the beginning and then brings all new players to a help section that explains how the RPG works and is played. It really is not a complicated system to figure out, but the bnet IQ has seemed to drop over the years. They can't walk a spell caster onto a beacon to cast a spell, but hey they know how to stack cannons (yippie). Hopefully this guide will inspire some good map makers to improve the state of multiplayer RPGs.

-bearcat_fan

Reading this was a waste of my time. Simple as this : If your not WoodenFire, Rantent, or a different expert Terrainer AND Triggerer, don't make RPGS.

RPGS demands the following: Professional Terrain, Complex Triggers (SHUT THE HELL UP IF YOU THINK RPGS SHOULD HAVE BASIC TRIGGERING SYSTEMS), Crazy Awsome Storyline, and like... thats it.

Stop being up youself, for starters your not god like. So what if you good at extended terrian whoopie noone really cares. Complex triggers dont make the rpg, geewiz.

\\Moogle

Dude, you are the most Arrogant piece of **** i have ever seen. Just shut up will you. Never post in another topic, Just go back to your little corner and Rot.

[sub]I agree with Woodenfire.[/sub]

Moogle took some time to help out new mappers so give him some credit. I am sure you could have used some of this when you started, woodenfire. I am sure your RPG will be fantastic, but remember that good mappers let their maps do the talking for them.

-bearcat_fan

Terrain, a vital part of the map? Hah. Your terrain can be the next Mona Lisa for all I care; if the gameplay's no good, all your map will have is a fifteen-second stare value.

If you'd look outside of Starcraft for a moment, there are games out there that use text characters for graphics and turn-based gameplay, and are still much more fun than "modern" games. A lot of what mappers do nowadays in terms of overly complicated text effects, extended terraining, long 'cutscene' movies, and the like are just signs that they have hopped on the bandwagen of the modern gaming industry's unhealthy obsession with graphics. But the fact of the matter is, most of the drive for better graphics doesn't come from any concern for making a better game, but rather, from a desire to make a game that will look better than the others in screenshots so that people buy it. And from that, we get the equally useless practice of judging new maps based on screenshots, which tell us next to nothing about how fun the map will be; this in turn puts pressure on mappers to focus more on aesthetics and less on making a bug-free map that is enjoyable to play and will come out within the lifespan of humanity as a species (to say nothing of the lifespan of the Starcraft community). I for one would like to see someone resist the trend for once.

That said, you definitely have a point about the triggers. If I'm subjected to another RPG that is little more than a glorified Special Forces clone, I just might lose it...I don't want to say that the triggers have to be complex, just that they have to be sufficient to make me feel like I'm playing something other than a crude cut-and-paste rearrangement of Starcraft elements. And since the "something other" should be fun, this often means somewhat more complex triggering. But it's not complexity for its own sake...everything should eventually tie back to gameplay. That kind of philosophy could lead to an RPG that I'd like to play.

Is that y ur map is gonna come out yer 3006 and never get played cuz all the uses are way out of date!
Yep don't make rpgs if ur not woodenfire, make RPGS cu rpgs are all woodenfire and he has claimed it. Did i miss anything? Maybe you need 3 years of terraining?
Yeah just to give u ur props for all them great rpgs u've put out there, with godlike everytrhing. Great Job man!

Onto important things...
Thanks for the list moogle, I think you're really doing alot to help the map maker and better yet the rpg map maker community. This list will help drive attention to the map making community for rpgs. Try to get this pinned, it's a real good helper. Oh yeah, I also wanna say great job by ding that contest for rpgs, that'll be great for seeing some brand new rpgs out there. Not much else to say, keep it up moogle ur saving the rpg style for all the rpg map makers that are still out there!

//Avenger of Darkness

I believe people are entitled to their own opinions, so don't attack them. If they find it unnecessary then that is what they find it. However, Moogle's time and effort placed into compiling this RPG Guide is surely not a waste because for one thing, there will always be interested people who actually take the time to read and learn.

Now back to the topic, This is a great guide and very helpful and intuitive.

Rofl, funny how everybody who flamed wooden probobly cant even do something 1/2 as good as him. Although, i dont think this is a waste of time. I think it's helpful for beginners. Good job Moogle.


Wow. All i have to say to you kid is..Wow. Terrain is VERY MUCH a vital part to a map. Terrain is one of the first things people see of a map. It's sort of a first impression. I'm not sure where that statment is coming from, maybe you cant do good terrain, i dont know. But it's definetly a vital part of a map. People spend hundreds of hours on terrain for their maps (wooden is one of them). And you guys wonder why he's so good at it? I doubt most people on SeN spend more then 20 hours on terraining. And dont say, ''Terrain isnt that imporant to me" because it definetly pays off.

WoodenFire, I don't think you were your current level of experience when you started making RPGs. The fact that you, as someone claiming (or actually is, I generally haven't played your maps) to be so good at this, is telling people not to even try because you're that good, is personally shocking to me. According to you, we have to get good at something without doing it, which makes no logical sense. I'm personally in awe that someone with such a respectable mapping reputation would say something like that.

I'm not .
Nice layout moogle, this outta at least get some discussion on different ways of creating rpg type maps and get people talkin about it, only downside is it's a bit long. Try to trim it down if you feel you want to edit it, otherwise it's really good and has tons of info. Keep up the good works within the community!

~Tdnfthe1
(What reputation?)

i will use this. pretty cool. before i place or do my units i would write down on a papper all of it. ill just tweak them if needed.

Wooden, go play Winterglades RPG or a classic, non-edited Elements (if you can find one) and tell me that those simple maps aren't amazing and really fun to play. A map doesn't have to be modernized, flashy, and complex to be good.

Really nice guide for beginners or mid-skill level people making RPGs and starting out. Also cool in how it's from 2001