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Ok if anyone plays LotR here (remote possibility, but still), they know the events in LotR take place in the Third Age. I have a map that is 95% done, based on the First Age. Now what I wanted to know is, what do you like in LotR, and do you have any suggestions? I really wanna try and make something that feels special, or at least an in-depth Tolkien map. For example, I love showing the depth of Tolkien's world to a player. It's very important to me. Thus I make sure that whenever a hero or city dies, I say so, and I include other names for it. It just adds the depth I seek for my map. Another thing; this map takes place during a huge battle, and then continues onward. I will be settting up a massive battle at the beginning so it might be a cinema for a minute or two, and then a game. Lastly, I thought of having certain hero units (likely units), to be able to cast special spells. For example, there is an Elf-lord who is a wizard, and can camoflage his followers, thus I would maybe send in an invincible Orc for him, that lasts maybe 20 seconds before he is found out. Are there any other ideas? It doesn't matter if you don't like LotR, if you have a good idea, I wanna hear about it! Thanks to anyone who responds.

Well, first off you should make sure you spell all the names right. Add realistic sounds and keep a story line. (for example there are some maps where you just fight eachother and it isn;t very realistic) If you were doing Helm's Deep, you wouldn't just fight, you should add the ladders and the suicide torch guy, etc. If you've ever played the LotR game for PS2, it should give you some ideas.

What part of the First Age are you looking at presently?
- Leaving Valinor?
- Fighting Melkor?

You must make it realistic, that means that heroes are good fighters, but what makes good fighters harder to kill than a common one from an arrow? Not much, just make sure it is balanced.

Remember this will be online, and so it will have to have good action, fast play, balanced units, balanced buildings, locations, storylines that are correct.

If battles occur during the game, make sure they don't unbalance the game, and maybe stop recalling massive armies.
(Done by following this simple set, set Arbiter Recall to about 5, that should be enough, and then when battles occur, have a trigger that sets them all to zero, stopping that recall.)

With that, don't include heroes, since people love them, and if they die because of being moved by a trigger it pisses them off. With this in mind, maybe have battles a choice at the beginning.

Onto the storyline, well there most of it is obvious, though since the First Age is really about the Elves, and then on single units doing great feats, and of course, the great battles, be careful what happens, likely stories like that of Turin and Beren can't be done, it would have to have them too powerful, so make sure, above all, it sits close to the storyline, but allows balance changes! Dates are quite useful to.

Ok. I was thinking sort of like last Alliance for heroes. They have lots of Hp, but not alot of armour, so no godliness. I want it to be unit based, not hero based. What do you think about my suggestion for special hero capabilities?

I always wanted to see a LotR map that seamlessly blends large scale war-type stuff and unit-level RPGing, while retaining a marginal degree of 'realism' *. I've seen a few attempts to do something like this but none of them seem to have worked too well, IMO. If someone can pull it off properly, AND make it the RPG and LotR elements on their own good to play, it'll be a sure hit.

* (at least, however "real" one can call a loose approximation of a dead guy's fictional literary works of the previous century, created as a user-made map for a fictional game taking place in the far future in a world and setting that doesn't exist).

Yeah that's a good idea. So kind of a discover abilities thing? I was also thinking of having some items too. Yeah hey thanks tux this could be cool. Unfortunartely im going to Italy for 3 weeks, so i'll have to work on this late.r

Sorry my friend, but this crowd is different from the B.net community. Oh crap, I just remembered you stopped posting like 2 weeks ago. Oh well. This counts as Post 100!

Things that the B.net community looks for in a LotR map:

-Opping

Yup, that's pretty much it. W/out opping... "screw this gay map! it freaking sucks!" (Actual Quote, or close enough)
Anyways Coko wtf were you smoking?
-Leaving Valinor
Ummm, Flight of the Noldor? The Kinslaying at Aqualonde. I don't think so!
-Fighting Melkor
Roflmfao. That's just so funny I don't want to comment. What would a First Age map be without Melkor? EVERYTHING revolves around him in the first age. Every major event is tied to him in some way.

Here is what I suggest:
Forces:
-HithlumGondolinNargothrond
-SevenSonsofFeanor
-DoriathFalas
-AngbandThangorodrim

Of course that is just a general First Age map...
To be "realistic" you could choose a specific date:
-Fall of Gondolin: Fingolfin Dead, Hithlum No More!

Do NOT base your map off of any maps, specifically Perils of the Noldor
-Kampai_Su-Chi needs to learn how to make maps
-People need to learn to recognize good ones

On another note, people hate intro cinematics in games like this
-Have arbiters
-Stasis 125 energy
-Defilers: DSwarm=150-250 energy
-Spread the good heroes around, don't have one force get all the good ones
-Give everyone Protoss Shuttles
-Air Units should be moderated
-Good Accurate Terrain
-Something new and innovative

Use the "new" *Ahem, I thought I was genius when I found this out* Spawning Technique

All Triggers Except Last = All Players (Last is Player SPecific)

Cond: Always
Action: Add 1 death for Unused Unit for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger

Cond: Current Player has exactly 78 Deaths of Unused Unit
Action: Set Switch Primary Spawn
-Preserve Trigger

Cond: Switch Primary Spawn is set
Action: Add 1000 minerals for current Player
-Set Countdown Timer to 150 seconds
-Wait 5 milliseconds
-Set Death for Unused Unit for Current Player to 0
-Clear Switch Primary Spawn
-Preserve Trigger

*Repeat, except use 156 deaths of Unused Unit Type A for Secondary Spawn*

Cond: Player Specific Commands Exactly 1 Spawner
Switch Primary Spawn is set
Action: Create X Archers at Location Spawner
-Preserve Trigger

Of course you seem like you know what you're doing, but here is the link to the tutorial *I know it's old and kind of outdated!*

Lord of the Rings Tutorial!

By the way, this is post #101!

I personally hate how if a map doesn't have heros that are Melkor, Eru, or the other Valar strength (as in the Sil and such) and it doesn't have arbs, all you hear "OMG Gay map, my heros can't destroy everything without receiving damage !!!shift+11!"

I'm HOPING my map will change that, but that is so unlikley....

Damn the general B.Net idioticy

Actually, people love Last Alliance. I'd say that is the most played map. Even though it is rigged when you get uber-marines, people still love it. Yeah, all new maps are expected to have stupid rigged-ass heroes. It sucks but what is someone supposed to do about it? I helped create TotV, but that isn't as widely played anymore. Even though it's the best pre as far as I'm concerned...

I like the idea of heroes having special abilities. Maybe just use the dropship method and have like 2 ablilities each. Maybe you could use gas as mana. Then to create castles you could just have a trigger that replaces the castle you built with the castle needed to get better units. That way you can add a wait so that they don't get all castles at once.

Yeah I read that awhile ago. I thought it was very well done, and after reading it I made my own tutorial as well! I will submit it to Yoshi when I get back in...5 days. And yeah I used the forces you suggested, I just based that much off of the old Dagor map that I didn't like much, by LotR-Haldir i think. I was thinking about unit hp, and I just decided to keep everthing real real low, like archers have 10 hp and do 3-4 damage for exmaple. It just makes it alot easier to balance for me. Heros would maybe have something like 50. they are heroes, but they are still mortat, you know?

And Last Alliance...ah even I still play it from time to time, even though the terrain isn't really representative of middle.earth. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to some stuff . Yeah I think I will add that dropship idea in, just in a secluded location somewhere. And what do you guys think of me adding a dungeon for menegroth? Also (if you know your Sil), an area where you have to destroy the seve gates before gondolin becomes mortal? Right now, I have a building named Seven gates or some such (my naming rocks that is just me trying to remember), but I could change that easily enough I think. I'd unfortunately just have to have on building be the same for all seven gates, but each time one died I'd have the death messaage saying "Gate of wood/bronze/w/e has died". I wanna make this a really good map.

I don't think I really understand your second idea Vin. Can you explain more? Sorry it's kind of late.

Wow man, you ROCK! Ty very, very much for that compliment. I don't know if there's anything I can do to update it... I'm a lot better now than I was then, but I don't know if there is anything I can do more to LotR maps now than I did then. Anyway, here is my First-Age map if you would like to view it:

Flight of the Noldor - General First Age Map
-Yes, I know Gondolin looks exactly like PotN
-Made to be as accurate as possible for a general First Age map
-I tried to take what was good in all the First Age maps, and make them better

*Yoshi da Sniper gasps - I actually researched things! Like...
*Yoshi da Sniper gasps again - Where things are located *crowd cries out in joy!*

Crap! It's 372 kb. I'm sorry... My name is on B.net (USEast) is...
*Yoshi da Sniper gasps for the last time - WoA-Felagund! Who could've guessed?!

Ummm just personal message me if you want to look at my map.
Feel free to "borrow" any of my ideas! Here, let me post my thing!

Okay, here is how you do a personal message (in case you didn't know!)
-Go to My Controls near top
-Go to Menu on left side, Compose New Message
-I hope you can figure out the rest!

By the way man, you rock! At least someone appreciates what I've done with LotR!

-=~ ~=- -=~ ~=-

if you are only 1 hero, make sure you only control 1 unit, not entire armies, it just makes sense

Lol, here is some info:
The seven gates of Gondolin do NOT make Gondolin invincible... it defends them from the ground...
And the 7 gates are located in a ravine called the Orfalch Echor.
It translates into something like "Circle-Ravine"
I have some great ideas for Flight of the Noldor, but it's a different type of map.
Here try mine:
-Have a "cave" location for the city of Gondolin, set like in Belegaer (Great Sea) to the southwest. You can recreate the city in this location
-Have an outside location for Gondolin with the 7 gates in a ravine. Somewhere near there include the Crissaegrim. Mind you the mountains surrounding Gondolin are called the Echoriath.
-Make Gondolin open to air units (meaning they can enter the city) before the gates have fallen
-Once the gates have fallen ground (evil) units can enter Gondolin
-Noldor (excluding SoF, unless they're allied with other Noldor) can enter Gondolin at any time
-Make the gates run with all Noldor, meaning that if Nargothrond brought at least 1 man to gate 1, gate 1 would open, etc. etc.
-Have anti-hoard in caves, the limit should be about 25-30 for the player who owns the cave, and 15-20 for the allies

Caves:
-Keep in mind the different settings of caves
-Gondolin was well... a rather large city, maybe some Ruins/Temple terrain?
-Nargothrond is your average cave, maybe spice up with a plethora of doodads?
-Menegroth was beautiful, have lakes, trees, and grass
-Angband means "Iron-Hell" Keep that in mind!

Something I did not do in my map and I think should be corrected is to give Maeglin the Sharp-Gleam (many say Sharp-Glance) to Gondolin. He's always given to Melkor's team. Of course, you have to make a decision. Both have good heroes any way, but Maeglin did his fair share for Gondolin too. Giving him to Melkor would be like saying Hurin should be with Melkor because he gave away the general location of Gondolin!

These are just some ideas, I'm bound to post more!

That pic is awesome . Yeah that gate idea was just an idea. But your air idea makes sense, since Gondolin is on Amon Gwareth. Hehe you have so many good ideas, and I still have 4 days to go before I can start working. Bah! My terrain has the southern forest 8the huge one), tar nu deldain or something like that. It's pretty much worthless, well no, you could attack menegroth or falas from there, but it's not serving any other purpose. I think I'll just remove it and include those caves and stuff, seen as how I already have alot of the western sea used by stuff (dungeons of angband, nargothrond, upgrade buildings). Thank god for sprites, now I can juice up those caves like you suggested.

Oh yeah about Gondolin I couldn't fit Maeglin in. I could only have Turgon, Glorfindel, and one other ..oh yeah, Ecthelion of the Fountain. I have literally used every single unit available in SCXE for this map. So many heroes and stuff.

So besides that, I'm gonna set up a beginning battle (not a cinematic that trains your screen on it; then people might get bored). It wll carry through the Dagor until Morgoth attacks Hithlum from the north (seven years later), and Cirdan sails up and helps him. How long do you think that should take in minutes, Felagund?

TotV...

I remember that map, how it is eludes me at the moment

Is it the ice map or am I completely off?

It was an Ice map i believe, or if it wasn't then it wasn't the best, only the Ice was the best. This is an old topic to bring up, anyhow moving onto the Hero part. I don't think just because the hero is in the books you need them, maybe just have one or two for each player, and try and make them better at providing support rather than sitting in front of your army and taking about 1000 kills a second.

Arbiters; maybe use the "Ghost" Style of choosing to include either Statis or not, and if so set it to two uses, at 100, so that they can get it back up quickly, and also set an amount for your Recall, just in case you use battles and don't want instant hoard, because you could just set the Arbiters to Zero and therefore negate the ability to use them.

Terrain is important, get the main bases and surround terrain, and don't worry about the rest, ensure that units cannot air walk into "outside" bases which shouldn't be entered that way, by either stopping all air units entering or else moving them, destroying them is a little harsh, though can be funny!

Units shouldn't be overpowerful, so that they can rush through, same for heroes, it shouldn't be the case that only heroes can hurt heroes. I always thought that heroes should be powerful in attack, (though not Uber) but almost as weak as normal units in health and such, because they are Mortal!

Findables are interesting, maybe have it easy to get, just moving a unit over it, but have different locations for each findable and have random choice for which one is used each game. Maybe four locations for them, thats just two switches on random.

Triggers like this


That's so that you can use gas as mana without having everyone build all their castles in 2 minutes.

That wouldn't work many times, your likely get unplaceable, because they are different sizes, you need something the same side, which is rare for that size.

I think you shouldn't use the same idea as Acadamies and such, just have it so that you can select heroes to pray for better units, and once they've been at a location for long enough, it enables to the next level.

Aren't the academy and observatory both 2x3 grid squares large?

Yeah, I agree with Coko, don't do the regular castle idea if you can help it, do something else.

Heros should be a bit above normal (as was said)

I personally don't think arbs should be used, because its not realistic (Have you ever seen one flying thing transport hundreds of units in LotR?)

Also try to use as little as "specialized" units as possible

so no Elven Longbow, Human Longbow (by which I mean use one unit to represent them both)

And thats the only thing I can think of at the moment

I will think of more things though

I think that there should be some different, maybe make it different, if i can later tomorrow, i'll write into Off-Topic or something all names in Elvish, and say that it is the Elvish idea of what happened, so it is all in Elvish, and such.

Ob = 2x3
Acad = 2x3
Oh yeah, but why change it? Makes no sense...Waits.

In regular LotR maps, you dont get more gas until you finish building your castle. I suggested using gas for mana, but that would mess up the whole castle thing. So you could just use triggers to make the castles, then add some waits so that you still have lots of time between building castles. Of coures unit creation would now depend on how many obs you have, not how many academy.

Whats the point, you just use the other unit, and what do you gain? You could do the same effect with a Counter, rather than changing the unit, and also get rid of those waits by using another counter.

The point was to free up the gas slot so he could use that as mana. Explain how you'd use counters for this, I dont' really understand how you'd do that.