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Staredit Network -> Miscellaneous -> I shall now victimize you all with a rant!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-07 at 15:15:57
QUOTE
What’s wrong with the world today you ask?  Well you can always point to things like poverty, war, corruption, etc.  You could even go as far as to trace those in turn to more specific things like race, class, gender, religion, etc.  But I can tell you what the real root to all of these is: Communication.  In a nutshell, when people or things can’t communicate, they can’t coexist; one of them must override or displace the other.  That at least is a fact as old as the universe itself.

Communication is not simply about talking, body language, or writing, but simply the exchange of messages between parties.  But what are messages?  Well they can be anything.  From giving someone the finger on the freeway, to exterminating an entire species of indigenous animals in their natural habitat; it’s all about communication.
Communication, or the exchange of messages, is as fundamental as the law of physics.  You could say that a larger object moving in a collision course with a smaller one would give the “message” to the smaller one to move out of the way by transmitting force upon it on contact.  Of course we don’t usually like to think of it on those low-level terms, but why not?  A bigger person bullying a littler one to get them to do something is the bigger person sending two messages: Their intent, and that the littler one is littler, and must obey.  But communication isn’t a one-way process.  For the process to be complete, sent messages must also be received.
It’s when they aren’t received properly that there’s a problem.  But is that a problem of the sender or the recipient?  Or both?  You could imagine an example where the littler person did not hear the bigger bully, or chose to ignore them.  Or they could have misconstrued or misinterpreted the message, or even outright rejected it, and then reacted with a course of action directly opposite to the intent of the bully.  Does this mean that the littler person has failed to communicate, and thus failed to adapt to the situation?  Or is it simply that the littler person has sent their own message; whether the bully received it right or not, that he does not wish or is unable to abide by his intent?
In any case, you can probably guess what happens next.  If the bully goes by predictable action, and the littler person reacts accordingly, the bully would then use force to assert his message: A low-level means of communication.  It is then that we commonly consider communication to have failed, as when one party can no longer send or receive messages in any compatible way it comes down to whom can override or displace the other.  While you may feel sorry for the little guy, in this case, it’s really his own damn fault.

So what does this have to do with the problems of the world today?  Well because we have the fortune/misfortune of being an instinctually hierarchical species, that bully/little guy scenario plays out all the time in the world.  It’s not always that people can’t communicate without failure; it’s that they choose not to.  People have a natural inclination to use force as their way of communication to lesser or foreign parties, which usually can only be overridden by a strong force of intelligence and awareness.
That’s where ignorance comes in.  I like to define ignorance as the intentional inability or misplaced ability to communicate.  There are cases where parties simply cannot communicate, and that the law of physics must play itself out for things to be resolved.  I can’t or won’t try to deny that.  But we as humans with our abnormally capable brains have the gift of not only being able to learn to communicate “properly”, but also the ability to modify our environments to convey communication in ways our meager bodies might not be able to achieve.
I’m firmly of the belief that we have no real excuse to revert to the law of physics for our means of communication; even if it means sacrificing some of ourselves in the process.  Of course, in order for that ideal to function properly for its intended purpose, it of course needs the right conditions, or environment.  You don’t sacrifice your life trying to tell a wild animal you are a friend when it’s clearly not capable or receiving your message in any meaningful way.  But your options for preventing the communication failure can range from avoiding the encounter with the animal, or even conditioning the animal rigorously from birth to accept your presence.

But why bother?  That is another provocatively broad question.  If the animal has an inborn instinct to reject weaker or foreign entities, then even conditioning it from birth would only yield an artificial layer of compliance for the instance of that one animal in particular.  What about all the other animals of the same species?  What happens if, for some reason, you must “communicate” with each of them your friendly intent?  Well clearly communication will once again fail, as it will come down to numbers.  One person could in theory accomplish a lot during their lifespan, but normally the limits of both their mortality and individuality would prevent them from applying their energy toward conditioning or avoiding every single encounter with said animal.  Then it comes back down to the law of physics: A smaller entity would again have to yield to the larger one.

Unless there can be a change on a large scale with both the recipients and the senders, there will be no lasting resolution to the issue of communication.  In which case, that poor littler guy is probably going to have to listen to the bully after all.



So saith the lord! Or something.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kame on 2006-07-07 at 16:01:00
Sort of the actions-speak-louder-than-words bit, right?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-07-07 at 16:14:38
Wouldn't a rant be words speaking louder than actions?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kame on 2006-07-07 at 17:26:31
or maybe the action was posting this in the first place...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-07 at 18:12:01
QUOTE(Kame @ Jul 7 2006, 03:00 PM)
Sort of the actions-speak-louder-than-words bit, right?
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More like, because people suck they don't use words instead of actions.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-07-07 at 18:17:57
What the heck? I seriously don't get this. And by the way, the action was posting this and the words were the LONG speech tuxedo just replied to in this forum. So, he made an action by posting the topic and typing a reponse and now he's reading everything you guys typed..and he used words..

..........
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-07 at 18:22:37
Well if you don't get it then....




Oh nevermind.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-07-07 at 18:25:48
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ Jul 7 2006, 05:22 PM)
Well if you don't get it then....
Oh nevermind.
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If I don't get then..what?

Oh nevermind? Are you trying to attempt to help by saying those words..or are you just deciding not to say what you were about to say?

ADDITION:
And I've just been victimized. How nice mellow.gif

ADDITION:
Hi Do-0dan! I know this isn't the perfect place to say 'hi', but HI!
Note-to-self: Use shoutbox next time...god dam nit!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Do-0dan on 2006-07-07 at 18:27:08
Hi. Who are you?

and i think he was saying those words that you replied to because it would have been too complicated to explain.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-07 at 18:28:26
Something like that. I've grown a nasty sore spot where people's cluelessness have rubbed me, but I figure it's only a rant so I won't flame or nuthin.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-07-07 at 18:35:08
QUOTE(Kame @ Jul 7 2006, 04:26 PM)
or maybe the action was posting this in the first place...
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... Cosmic.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-07-08 at 00:27:12
Am I doing something wrong if people choose to talk while I be assertive?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kame on 2006-07-08 at 01:36:24
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ Jul 7 2006, 03:28 PM)
Something like that.  I've grown a nasty sore spot where people's cluelessness have rubbed me, but I figure it's only a rant so I won't flame or nuthin.
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wait...what are we talking about now?


QUOTE
More like, because people suck they don't use words instead of actions.

Just to clarify (for I am slow) you'd rather people just come right out and state their intentions instead of inferring what they'd do if they had some guts? I may be reading this totally wrong.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-07-08 at 01:36:34
People don't have to be nice to each other.

Failure makes the human experience interesting. If no one ever screwed up, we'd all be Ned Flanders. Do you want to be Ned Flanders?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-08 at 02:52:18
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Jul 8 2006, 12:36 AM)
People don't have to be nice to each other.

Failure makes the human experience interesting. If no one ever screwed up, we'd all be Ned Flanders. Do you want to be Ned Flanders?
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Yes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-07-08 at 05:27:56
Stupid Flanders.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2006-07-08 at 06:50:19
lol.

I see what your saying, and for the most part agree. More communication = more knowledge about the other = better understanding of their side = better judgement. It would help solve many of the problems any of us face today.

But the problem lies in humanities distrust in itself. Working out a common solution would not be as appealing if you could simply act without the other party and gain everything for yourself. That is essentially the entire basis of our society nowadays. Businesses do not work with one another and the customer for each others benefit, but simply to the benefit of themselves. People do things for themselves and people they know or who are like them. Its survival in its primest form.

And I think it is not communication that we are missing, but rather understanding and interpreting that communication. Understanding on both sides, not simply the recieving end. If you have the smaller object and larger object and they will, in their current courses be immenantly intersecting one another, then they should both realize this and take action. If the best mode of action for them is to communicate with the other than it is fine, but the end result is that they should understand what is taking place, as best as possible. Which as I said in the first paragraph, more communication = more knowledge about the other = better understanding of their side = better judgement.

Its simply a means to an end.

Why is this in null?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-08 at 13:27:33
QUOTE(Rantent @ Jul 8 2006, 05:49 AM)
Why is this in null?
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Because it's a rant. tongue.gif

QUOTE
But the problem lies in humanities distrust in itself. Working out a common solution would not be as appealing if you could simply act without the other party and gain everything for yourself. That is essentially the entire basis of our society nowadays. Businesses do not work with one another and the customer for each others benefit, but simply to the benefit of themselves. People do things for themselves and people they know or who are like them. Its survival in its primest form.
Well survival works fine for brainless things, but we're not brainless. The civilization and culture we have for ourselves now is owed primarily to the few who decided to use their brains. It wasn't born from the usual mindless, survivalistic thugs.

But in this day and age, it's clear that the thugs arn't going anywhere. Capitalism, therefore, comes to power because its the best way to accomodate the mindless thug majority. By providing a compromise between society and nature.



The real solution, sadly, is to have more Ned Flanders in the world. Might not be fun, but I'd pick that over wars, poverty, corruption, violence, etc.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodan on 2006-07-08 at 13:38:32
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ Jul 8 2006, 12:27 PM)
Because it's a rant. tongue.gif

Well survival works fine for brainless things, but we're not brainless.  The civilization and culture we have for ourselves now is owed primarily to the few who decided to use their brains.  It wasn't born from the usual mindless, survivalistic thugs.

But in this day and age, it's clear that the thugs arn't going anywhere.  Capitalism, therefore, comes to power because its the best way to accomodate the mindless thug majority.  By providing a compromise between society and nature.
The solution, sadly, is really to have more Ned Flanders in the world.  Might not be fun, but I'd pick that over wars, poverty, corruption, violence, etc.
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But you mustn't forget that people just want what they want. No matter how smart, well intentioned and well mannered someone is, the goal they seek will always end up depriving someone else of something.

The order of the brain seems to be (in order of priority):

1. Animalistic brain: the one that wants to eat, reproduce, etc. and do all it takes to get those things. Key word: instincts.
2. The emotional brain: the one that feels happiness, sorrow, anger, etc. (usually in relation to the successes or failures of the animal brain)
3. The thinking brain: the one that calculates everything that must be done to ensure the other two brain sections are pleased. It's also the one that is capable of higher thinking, but it is also the first one to go silent when the other two start pushing for what they want.

It's like the evolution of the brain from the simple reptiles to what we are now. Sorta like how the simplest, yet sturdiest structure is the foundation, and everything above becomes more complex, yet dependant on that foundation. No matter what our thinking brains accomplish, at our core, we are still animals, and animals will fight and kill to meet their desires. That's never gonna change.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-08 at 14:01:20
QUOTE(Doodan @ Jul 8 2006, 12:38 PM)
But you mustn't forget that people just want what they want. No matter how smart, well intentioned and well mannered someone is, the goal they seek will always end up depriving someone else of something.

The order of the brain seems to be (in order of priority):

1. Animalistic brain: the one that wants to eat, reproduce, etc. and do all it takes to get those things. Key word: instincts.
2. The emotional brain: the one that feels happiness, sorrow, anger, etc. (usually in relation to the successes or failures of the animal brain)
3. The thinking brain: the one that calculates everything that must be done to ensure the other two brain sections are pleased. It's also the one that is capable of higher thinking, but it is also the first one to go silent when the other two start pushing for what they want.

It's like the evolution of the brain from the simple reptiles to what we are now. Sorta like how the simplest, yet sturdiest structure is the foundation, and everything above becomes more complex, yet dependant on that foundation. No matter what our thinking brains accomplish, at our core, we are still animals, and animals will fight and kill to meet their desires. That's never gonna change.
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Well you can build a large structure by hauling huge stone bricks together until you get a pyramid, or you can pour a bit of concrete and a few metal supports to make a scaffolding and simply add in between it. Sure, the pyramid would last longer, but just what would we use a pyramid for anyway?

As a society, we should be at least trying (a lot more than we are now) to ween away from stone pyramid building (figuratively speaking). No one has a right to complain about the problems in the world if they prefer to throw stones at it instead of build around it.






Hurray for metaphors. tongue.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodan on 2006-07-08 at 14:04:18
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ Jul 8 2006, 01:00 PM)
Hurray for metaphors. tongue.gif
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Indeed.

But personally, I gave up years ago on any "hopes" that society can better itself. Nowadays, I only focus on myself and my family's prosperity. Am I contributing to the problem? Maybe. But I'm doing what I must.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-08 at 14:09:38
Well humanity might not be able to change under its own power... SO WE'LL MAKE IT CHANGE! Buahahah!


No really, I think the solution from here on out is to use our brains instead of our genes (as long as our genes allow us to have brains, ironically). We have technology, science, and time. We should be using them to improve ourselves fundamentally.




Build me an army worth of mordor!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-07-08 at 14:42:10
QUOTE(Doodan @ Jul 8 2006, 08:38 PM)
we are still animals, and animals will fight and kill to meet their desires. That's never gonna change.
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I disagree.

I belive in God. I think we are better than animals, we have a better brain. If we are animals that can't change their destiny that is "eat or be eaten", why did God bother to create us ? We can, belive it or not, we can make it without wars, greed and all the other problems. We are just morally weak. We are like clever students that are lazy and do not wish to learn more, saying "hah, I'm already smart".

Why are we weak ? Every person has some good living in him, any person. We are weak, because someone started this evil, that surrounds us today, and even if one person out of a million is trying to be good, he is laughted at by the society. Being weak, he backs down and plays this game that millions play. If every one of us was strong enough to break the evil inside atleast one person near him, we would live like Jesus wanted, like we want. So in general, human kind is morally weak.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-07-08 at 15:06:34
This whole God thing makes it so much easier to think about the world, doesn't it? I mean, you can just keep shifting the pressure onto someone else for the rest of your life! Maybe I should try it some time.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-07-08 at 16:45:41
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Jul 8 2006, 10:06 PM)
This whole God thing makes it so much easier to think about the world, doesn't it? I mean, you can just keep shifting the pressure onto someone else for the rest of your life! Maybe I should try it some time.
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Belief in God answers questions, that science cannot answer for me. And yes, it is easyer to understand some things that way.

Yes, maybe first part of my post is connected with God. But how is the second part of my post connected with God ?
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