Staredit Network

Staredit Network -> Serious Discussion -> Black Holes
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-08-13 at 14:03:18
Black Holes - this was a deleted topic from the hacker

What I said,

Posting in other topics got me thinking about Space and Black Holes, I don't know too much about them, neither do scientists, but they say that if black holes do exist that there is a good chance that there are more than three dimensions. The three dimensions we see are like up-down, left-right, and front-back. If black holes exist there could be hidden dimensions that we dont know about in space. They are making a and I quote "Man-Made Black Holes" inside a type of chamber.

What they gave for steps for their experiment-
Step 1- Supermagnets in the 17-mile-long LHC accelerate two beams of protons to near light speed and point them on a collision coarse.
Step 2- Small extra dimensions--if they exist--appear when the protons get close together. In effect, they increase the force of gravity.
Step 3- Eventully the force of gravity between the protons becomes so strong that it forces quarks inside the colliding protons to coalesce.
Step 4- This merger collapses space-time and forms a minuscule black hole tens of thousands of times as small as a nucleus of an atom.
Step 5- The black hole nearly instantaneously disintergrates into a dozen or more different kinds of particles as a result of Hawking radiation.
Step 6- A 10-story-tall detector measures those particles as they blast from its center. Those from a black hole would create unique pattern.

Also they are going to do this experiment in late 2007.
Question and Answer I saw in the book I got all this info from.
Why Extra Dimensions?
They could reconcile the major theories of the 20th century: quantum mechanics (the physics of the very small) and general relitivity (the physics of spacetime). Without extra dimensions, quantum mechanics implies that gravity should be much stronger than it is.

If someone were to go through a black hole, they would be stuck at the point of there death forever. People on the outside of the black hole would be able to still see the person inside (frozen) even after the death of the person inside. Because black holes freeze space time. (4th dimension) but there has to be more than just 4 for black holes to still exist.

Space time is frozen inside a black hole, about being able to see someone in there dead, even know they are long gone and not even there. Space time freezes so you see it even though its not there.

Quoting what wikipedia says!
QUOTE
Objects in a gravitational field experience a slowing down of time, called time dilation. This phenomenon has been verified experimentally in the Scout rocket experiment of 1976,[10] and is, for example, taken into account in the Global Positioning System (GPS). Near the event horizon, the time dilation increases rapidly. To the distant observer, a falling object's movement slows down, approaches but never reaches the event horizon. Any escaping photons do not slow down when escaping the gravity well but experience redshifting. From the falling object's frame of reference, it will cross the event horizon and reach the singularity at the center of the black hole within a finite amount of time.


We arent 100% certain that black holes exist in space. They are so far away, we dont see the matter that goes in, eventually the black hole collapses in on itself. Everything disappears, this would be easier to explain with the dimensions thing.

Scientists looking for black holes are looking for a circular movement that is very tight around some type of object. Like a star (sun) on a very small orbit, slowly losing mass, but much faster than a weak dieing star would lose its mass.

user posted image
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Owyn on 2006-08-13 at 14:40:47
Black hole is a sun with so strong gravity so no light can go out of it and be seen for us.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-08-13 at 19:51:28
Black holes exist, there is no discussion about it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-08-13 at 21:21:48
QUOTE(Owyn @ Aug 13 2006, 02:40 PM)
Black hole is a sun with so strong gravity so no light can go out of it and be seen for us.
[right][snapback]544437[/snapback][/right]


your wrong!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by HolySin on 2006-08-13 at 22:16:37
A black hole occurs when a star has gained so much mass, it has imploded.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lord_Agamemnon(MM) on 2006-08-14 at 11:23:46
Sort of. When a really big star--I think the minimum is something like ten solar masses--runs out of fuel for fusion, gravity pulls it in on itself because nothing is pushing it out any more.

Of topic, I do wonder why this is in Serious Discussion.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-08-14 at 12:08:53
QUOTE(Lord_Agamemnon @ Aug 14 2006, 11:23 AM)
Of topic, I do wonder why this is in Serious Discussion.
[right][snapback]544750[/snapback][/right]


Because there was a discussion on this before. It was here, then the hacker deleted it and I wanted to discuss on it again, because there was only like 30 posts on it. I posted it like a couple hours before the hacker was here so people were actually discussing. I wasnt done!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-08-14 at 21:41:25
A star at least 3 solar masses can become a blackhole.The processbegins when the star goes into a supernovae,which outshines the Galaxy itself.Short time after the supernova,the gravity becomes so strong the escape velocity becomes greater than light(thats why its called a Black Hole,no light escapes),it is known as a Black Hole.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-08-14 at 21:45:39
QUOTE(WoA-Horde @ Aug 14 2006, 09:41 PM)
(thats why its called a Black Hole,no light escapes),it is known as a Black Hole.
[right][snapback]545032[/snapback][/right]

Thanks for like the seventh time saying it, If yo havent noticed but the title of this thread is Black Holes, this is because we already know the name. But thanks anyway
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-08-15 at 16:09:06
QUOTE(7-7 @ Aug 14 2006, 05:45 PM)
Thanks for like the seventh time saying it, If yo havent noticed but the title of this thread is Black Holes, this is because we already know the name.  But thanks anyway
[right][snapback]545039[/snapback][/right]


Yea because some people in this worl have short-term memory loss I might as well remind them.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2006-08-15 at 16:28:26
Black holes don't have to be suns, and they don't need a minimum solar mass, thats normally just for natural occurances.
We have attempted miniscule black holes out of tiny particles before. (I believe I made a topic about there first attempts a while back.) The black holes were unstable simply because they were very tiny, and didn't have eneough gravitational pull to repel the other forces.
It was a research lab near Europe. (not in tongue.gif )

The ten story tall thing's new though... Sounds interesting.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-08-15 at 17:32:51
Ya they are going to try and make a black hole, sending to protons together at the speed of light. I got this information from the magazine, Popular Science, The January 2006 edition, I get it monthly.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-08-15 at 17:37:06
QUOTE(Demaris @ Aug 13 2006, 06:51 PM)
Black holes exist, there is no discussion about it.
[right][snapback]544547[/snapback][/right]



QUOTE(7-7 @ Aug 13 2006, 08:21 PM)
your wrong!
[right][snapback]544589[/snapback][/right]


You're wrong.

Why the hell would someone want to make a blackhole on Earth, doesn't that carry the risk of planetary armageddon?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2006-08-15 at 18:06:16
They destroy themselves immediately, and I believe it was carried out already. The experiment 7-7 is talking about must be testing specific things about it. (I'll have to look through my popsci articles.)

The thing about black holes is they require a large amount of gravity, which small particles cannot provide.. Therefore, no armageddon problem.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Do-0dan on 2006-08-15 at 18:16:39
how long do black holes last?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Laser_Dude on 2006-08-15 at 18:32:45
I'm sure glad I copied all this into notepad

QUOTE
If you aren't in for some serious, serious science discussion, skip over this post, but for the science lovers (like me) read on.

OK, Basically, you make a black hole by crushing enough matter into a small enough space. The "event horizon" is the point at which, if anything passes this "divide", it cannot escape, even light.

The faster you move, the slower time goes (from someone else's point-of-view). The reason you can never reach the speed of light is because, the closer you get to your goal, the more time slows down and the more energy you have to spend(which doesn't get you anywhere). From the point-of-view of a standstill person, that energy goes into mass. The reason you will never reach the speed of light is that your mass increases (exponentially). Should you reach the speed of light your mass would become infinite. But that would take infinite energy, which we can't get.

That problem solved, gravity and acceleration (there is no way to tell the difference) would slow down time. Thus, being near the event horizon of a black hole would slow down time(from someone else's point-of-view). If you were at the event horizon of a black hole, everyone else would appear to be at a standstill, but unless you're orbiting at the speed of light you would get sucked in. Never to escape.

7-7, I don't know where you got that picture, but it's waaaay off. A black hole (hence the name) would appear to be completely black. That is because the photons(light) would get sucked into it, and thus, never reach your eyes.

Black holes, surprisingly, do emit something. You might ask how. Well, the immense energy in the black hole is causing energy to be converted into matter. Particles and Anti-particles appear around the black hole and instantly innhililate each other. Occasionally these particles appear right on the event horizon, one of them gets sucked into the black hole, giving the other a boost, the one that didn't go into the black hole flies off. Unfortunately, this theory cannot be detected due to the lack of sensitive enough equipment.

The problem with the mathematics of black holes is two competing theories, quantum mechanics, and general relativity. Quantum mechanics is used for things very small and light, like atoms, whereas general relativity is used for very large and heavy objects. Quantum mechanics doesn't include gravity, and general relativity doesn't include the strong, weak, or electromagnetic force. What do you use for an object very small and very heavy?

If this is too much to take in, I'm sorry, I've just finished a very interesting book on black holes, string theory, extra dimensions, and relativity. If you're interested, it's called The Elegant Universe by Brian Green.


There is no required mass for black holes. To make a black hole you simply have to crush your matter to a small enough size. It would be possible to make a black hole from a single electron, you would just have to crush it to a pretty small size. A black hole is simply an area where spacetime is infinitely curved.

Also, the lab that was mentioned is at CERN, in Geneva, Switzerland.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-08-15 at 19:13:24
JUst if you people want to know....The sun would become a Black Hole if it was squeezed to about the size of Mt. Everest.The Earth owuld become a Black Hole if it was a sphere with a diameter of about this line ------.Also,miniture Black Holes are destroyed imediatly because Haewking Radiation works faster in smaller Black Holes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2006-08-15 at 19:51:39
I actually wiki'ed black holes a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, as an object draws closer to a black hole, time appears to slow down exponentially, so to any outside observer, they never reach the singularity itself. It's just how space is folded and stuff. I wonder what would happen if a black hole were to get too much energy and it exploded. I mean, it would explode with more force than any supernova, and we probably can't even understand the implications of such an action.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-08-15 at 20:17:28
QUOTE(WoA-Horde @ Aug 15 2006, 07:13 PM)
JUst if you people want to know....The sun would become a Black Hole if it was squeezed to about the size of Mt. Everest.The Earth owuld become a Black Hole if it was a sphere with a diameter of about this line ------.Also,miniture Black Holes are destroyed imediatly because Haewking Radiation works faster in smaller Black Holes.
[right][snapback]545439[/snapback][/right]


No, the sun is not a powerful enough star! The stars that are small like our sun would just die inot a white dwarf then black dwarf, only super giants that go through a supernova(e) turn into a black hole.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-08-15 at 20:50:01
You misinterpet my post.I'm saying if we could somehow squeeze the sun into the size of Mt. EVerest gravity would take over and create a Black Hole.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-08-15 at 22:39:33
No because this would not be strong enough, it would be very strong, but no black hole. The sun is way too small, even for a black hole of that size, it wouldnt be powerful enough.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2006-08-15 at 22:49:15
Plus you have to debate where mount everest's size ends...
All in all your statement made no sense.
QUOTE
how long do black holes last?
Depends on the size, they either disappear instantaneously, or last forever. (To the best of my knowledge.)

QUOTE
A black hole is simply an area where spacetime is infinitely curved.
Well it could still be a non infinate number and suck up everything that we can possibly detect in the universe. It all depends on how small you are willing to look, (and what your looking at)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Laser_Dude on 2006-08-18 at 23:48:46
On the event horizon of a black hole, time stops, thus time past the event horizon is infinitely curved, infinite time would go by instantaniously, unfortuneatly, you can't really go fast enough to sit on the event horizon.

Man, CaptainWill sure did a good job of keeping this topic interesting. It just doesn't seem as "content-ish" without him.

ALSO: I'm not sure about the mount everest thing, but you could create a black hole out of any amount of matter, even only a single electron. You'd just need to crush it pretty small.

ALSO: off topic sorta, can you guys tell me if you can read this, it just seems like all the posts I've ever made have been invisible to some people.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-08-19 at 00:26:45
I can read this, also I have made this topic and have more information in my first post about black holes then anyone else here. But you may not have read it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2006-08-19 at 00:35:19
QUOTE
On the event horizon of a black hole, time stops, thus time past the event horizon is infinitely curved, infinite time would go by instantaniously, unfortuneatly, you can't really go fast enough to sit on the event horizon.
That is only assuming that a black hole is a singularity, which is not nessisarily true. We have never seen the surface of a black hole, so we can't tell what exactly they look like. In theory, you could have a mutitude of things inside the event horizon.
Next Page (1)