Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-08-28 at 10:31:19
If current theories about black holes are true then whit eholes cannot exist.
All the current accepted statements about blakc holes go something like they don't actually destroy the matter they suck in but store it for realese at a latter time. When it is realesed at the end of a black hole's life it's incredibly mangled.
All the current accepted statements about blakc holes go something like they don't actually destroy the matter they suck in but store it for realese at a latter time. When it is realesed at the end of a black hole's life it's incredibly mangled.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Vi3t_X on 2006-08-29 at 21:12:05
QUOTE(Owyn @ Aug 13 2006, 01:40 PM)
Black hole is a sun with so strong gravity so no light can go out of it and be seen for us.
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This guy is partialy right.
A Black hole is a sun that has died out after many billions of years. With the dying star decaying, it realeases massive ammounts of energy creating a cyclone that sucks up everything in its path. When our Star dies out (the SuN) our planet will be sucked into its undenying grasp of terror (lolZ im serious too)
For you 7-7. The only know dimensions now are:
1D: A Line with only 2 sights of view </> Insignifigant crap dimension
2D: A Flat Object with 4 sights of view </^/v/> Paper Dimension
3D: An object with depth and texture allong with 8 points of view </^/v/>/<^/^>/>v/<v. Regular Earth Dimension
4D: 3D Object Infused with time. Has ? points of view and looks like ? Hyperspace dimension
You see? Pay attention in class
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoodenFire on 2006-08-30 at 07:31:01
Supposedly there are as many as ten or more dimensions.
I was watching a show on quantum physics for a few minutes and they said that there can be more than 2 dimensions of time and even more of space.
Perhaps we are forgetting something? I read the guy above me and how he expained everything with sights of view and when he got to the 4th, it added time.
Everything in the world is symetrical at some point and in some form so perhaps...
• 1D - Line, ZERO sights of view, the line has no width, height, or dimensions viewable. This is simply a measurement. You would not be able to see a SingleDimensional object if you knew it.
• 2D - Flat Surface, TWO sights of view, bottom and top, any view of perfectly looking across, the object would vanish to your sight, this object has no height and thus no profile. A bad example would be paper because it does infact have height, and is 3D. This is a Dynamic object inwhich you can judge position from the paper to your line of sight based on the edges of the object and how they change.
• 3D - Dynamic Object, EIGHT sights of view and makes of our world we see with our unaided eyes.
• Time is an infinite length which is an amazing concept to think about. Infinite divisions of our time we know in seconds and minutes and hours can be broken down so many times to the speed which electrons move, which is the absolute fastest time can travel based on observations and complex math. I would think that there are limits to our 3D world (or 4D with Time) for instance, Time limits atom stability of charges within atoms, Space is limited with an expanding Universe, and what else?
Basically, I find that 1D is just our way of saying a Length, because it is not visible and not usefull. 2D is useless because it doesn't exist in our world.
Understanding a three dimensional world with and without time must mean something.
I have come to realize that everything has durability to some extent. Paint will chip over time, stainless steel will oxidize, radioactive atoms will deteriorate. This concept that time is perhaps a calculateable force? A probability force with serious pressures on our world.
Gravity, Electromagnetisim, Atomic forces... There are hundreds of scientists trying to find a unified equation to link all of the forces in the universe to a simlified standard. I am just throwing this out their but, time seems to be missing from their equation, and in our 4D, not 3D world, I think Time is just as powerful as any other force.
Anyway, back to blackholes... I am guessing you all realize that gravity is basically like a dip in space/time which causes objects to circle an object. Gravity moves at the speed of light according to modern observations and is a very weak force. Blackholes seem to balance out this very weak universe of huge masses of small gravitational forces.
Blackholes do definitely exist and we don't fully understand them. String theory has gone a long way since the problems with ever smaller particles of quarks of subatomic particles and we should be intelligent enough to let technology advance before we do what we badly need, is a live experiment with a working wormhole.
As a stage zero civilization, we probably are not prepared for such conceptualization of cosmic bodies.
So blackholes are collapsed massive bodies of mass which have collapsed in on its own gravitational pull. Hopefully this got some of my theoretical side out of me...
Interesting.
I was watching a show on quantum physics for a few minutes and they said that there can be more than 2 dimensions of time and even more of space.
Perhaps we are forgetting something? I read the guy above me and how he expained everything with sights of view and when he got to the 4th, it added time.
Everything in the world is symetrical at some point and in some form so perhaps...
• 1D - Line, ZERO sights of view, the line has no width, height, or dimensions viewable. This is simply a measurement. You would not be able to see a SingleDimensional object if you knew it.
• 2D - Flat Surface, TWO sights of view, bottom and top, any view of perfectly looking across, the object would vanish to your sight, this object has no height and thus no profile. A bad example would be paper because it does infact have height, and is 3D. This is a Dynamic object inwhich you can judge position from the paper to your line of sight based on the edges of the object and how they change.
• 3D - Dynamic Object, EIGHT sights of view and makes of our world we see with our unaided eyes.
• Time is an infinite length which is an amazing concept to think about. Infinite divisions of our time we know in seconds and minutes and hours can be broken down so many times to the speed which electrons move, which is the absolute fastest time can travel based on observations and complex math. I would think that there are limits to our 3D world (or 4D with Time) for instance, Time limits atom stability of charges within atoms, Space is limited with an expanding Universe, and what else?
Basically, I find that 1D is just our way of saying a Length, because it is not visible and not usefull. 2D is useless because it doesn't exist in our world.
Understanding a three dimensional world with and without time must mean something.
I have come to realize that everything has durability to some extent. Paint will chip over time, stainless steel will oxidize, radioactive atoms will deteriorate. This concept that time is perhaps a calculateable force? A probability force with serious pressures on our world.
Gravity, Electromagnetisim, Atomic forces... There are hundreds of scientists trying to find a unified equation to link all of the forces in the universe to a simlified standard. I am just throwing this out their but, time seems to be missing from their equation, and in our 4D, not 3D world, I think Time is just as powerful as any other force.
Anyway, back to blackholes... I am guessing you all realize that gravity is basically like a dip in space/time which causes objects to circle an object. Gravity moves at the speed of light according to modern observations and is a very weak force. Blackholes seem to balance out this very weak universe of huge masses of small gravitational forces.
Blackholes do definitely exist and we don't fully understand them. String theory has gone a long way since the problems with ever smaller particles of quarks of subatomic particles and we should be intelligent enough to let technology advance before we do what we badly need, is a live experiment with a working wormhole.
As a stage zero civilization, we probably are not prepared for such conceptualization of cosmic bodies.
So blackholes are collapsed massive bodies of mass which have collapsed in on its own gravitational pull. Hopefully this got some of my theoretical side out of me...
Interesting.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by ViolentMoose on 2006-08-30 at 11:34:22
BLack holes are just a Rip in space that Eatand suck anything that gets near it and Sqush it to the size of water drop.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lithium on 2006-08-31 at 06:42:20
please dont post in serious discussions.
and anyways. black holes arent massive in volume mind you. no ones identified what 4D exactly is. it is completely science fiction as up to date.]
laser dude, what I meant was. Throwing the equivalent anti-matter into a already existing black hole that destroys it, and making a unimaginable energy storm that dissipates into the universe, possibly turning many planets into dust. I hope you know how to read.
and anyways. black holes arent massive in volume mind you. no ones identified what 4D exactly is. it is completely science fiction as up to date.]
laser dude, what I meant was. Throwing the equivalent anti-matter into a already existing black hole that destroys it, and making a unimaginable energy storm that dissipates into the universe, possibly turning many planets into dust. I hope you know how to read.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoodenFire on 2006-08-31 at 18:12:23
Maybe...
• Dimension One - Distance
• Dimension Two - Perspective
• Dimension Three - Objective
• Dimension Four - Time
• Dimension Five - Gravity
• Dimension Six - Electromagetisim
• Dimension Seven - Weak Nuclear
• Dimension Eight - Strong Nuclear
In this setup, there are eight different dimensions. The first demonstraights the ability in our world to have a distance in space. The second shows that at different points of view, space can seem bent or slanted to allow for perspective and depth. This would be what allows our two eyes to see distance. The third dimension allows objects to have form and structure. The fourth through eighth dimensions represent forces from weakest to strongest.
• Distance has zero force
• Perspective has the force to enable rules of relativity to exist
• Objective has the force to enable shape and construction
• Time acts as a durabililty or corrosive probability for quantum physics
• Gravity is created by concentrated mass and effects other objects of mass
• Electromagetisim acts as an energy force
• Weak Nuclear allows certain radioactive particles free while is still strong enough to resist gravity
• Strong Nuclear keeps subatomic particles together
Perhaps, just like gravity can spark up from being a very small force, to an incredible one like having black holes, perhaps the other forces have there own dimension to which an endless well of power of that force exists... Perhaps all dimensions are all used to make up our finite world and can be exploited in different ways?
Just something I thought of...
• Dimension One - Distance
• Dimension Two - Perspective
• Dimension Three - Objective
• Dimension Four - Time
• Dimension Five - Gravity
• Dimension Six - Electromagetisim
• Dimension Seven - Weak Nuclear
• Dimension Eight - Strong Nuclear
In this setup, there are eight different dimensions. The first demonstraights the ability in our world to have a distance in space. The second shows that at different points of view, space can seem bent or slanted to allow for perspective and depth. This would be what allows our two eyes to see distance. The third dimension allows objects to have form and structure. The fourth through eighth dimensions represent forces from weakest to strongest.
• Distance has zero force
• Perspective has the force to enable rules of relativity to exist
• Objective has the force to enable shape and construction
• Time acts as a durabililty or corrosive probability for quantum physics
• Gravity is created by concentrated mass and effects other objects of mass
• Electromagetisim acts as an energy force
• Weak Nuclear allows certain radioactive particles free while is still strong enough to resist gravity
• Strong Nuclear keeps subatomic particles together
Perhaps, just like gravity can spark up from being a very small force, to an incredible one like having black holes, perhaps the other forces have there own dimension to which an endless well of power of that force exists... Perhaps all dimensions are all used to make up our finite world and can be exploited in different ways?
Just something I thought of...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Laser_Dude on 2006-09-04 at 12:04:24
Now, according to string theory, forces are given out by "particles" gravity uses the graviton, electromagnetism uses the photon, The weak force uses the Z and W particles, and the strong force uses the gluon, these are the tiniest little bundles of energy you can get.
In a 1-dimensional world let's say there's these beings (how they manage to function is of no importance) they have two "eyes" one on each side of their body, but they're continually looking at their neighbors, because there's no way to pass each other and get to the other side. Now, in between their eyes is the insides of their bodies, well there's no way to get to the inside without going through the eye, so the eye is like an outer shell to them. A doctor would perform surgery through one's eyes. Now, let's say that they try to imagine a universe where, people can get past each other, they would never of course be able to imagine this. Now if they were to enter a 2-dimensional world, they could of course get past each other. But now their insides are showing. A doctor could perform surgery by simply going up to the side of one of these beings, wouldn't even need to make a cut.
We can always imagine things several dimensions down, and still have symmetry.
Now, let's say you have a meeting, in a big corporate skyscraper. To get there they have to give you several peices of info. Like the street, the avenue of course, but what about the floor, and the time? these are all dimesions we're familiar with. Now, let's say you get to the right floor, of the right building at the right time, and there are numerous conference rooms? What would you do? You're missing a piece of info, and that's equivelant to another dimension, you go in, and he hasn't told you where to sit, of course, these are all areas within space, in the universe, you would be at one point in space, time, and several other dimensions, but these other dimesions are incredibly tiny, so we don't notice their influence.
In a one dimensional universe, to get to a meeting you would need one piece of info, where on the line?
In a 2-D universe, you need 2 peices of info, i.e. width and length
In a 3-D universe you need 3 peices of info, i.e. width, length, and height
In a 4-D universe you need 4 peices of info, i.e. width, length, height and time.
In a 5-D universe you need 5 peices of info, i.e. width, length, height, time and point in another dimension i.e. strings at every point in the universe
In a 6-D universe you need 6 peices of info, i.e. width, length, height, time, latitude and longditude on a sphere...
...In a 9/10/11-D universe you need 9/10/11 peices of info, point in space(3), point in time(1), and point on a calabi yau shape(they're at every point in the universe)(5/6/7)
According to many famous scientists, we live in a universe with 9/10/11 dimensions
NOTE: my examples of info are just examples, since the entire universe is symmetrical, you could swap any parameter for any other, i.e. a 2-D universe with length and time
They're all symmetrical, they just have different lengths, Most people(including certain physicists) beleive that time is special, not similar to other dimesions. They beleive that the universe is finite, but you can never fall off(like the earth in a 2-D(plus time) world, it is finite, but you can literally, keep on going, and going and going. I beleive that time is the same, after a certain amount of time, we will end up in the exact same situation as we are now, probably after a very long time.
In a 1-dimensional world let's say there's these beings (how they manage to function is of no importance) they have two "eyes" one on each side of their body, but they're continually looking at their neighbors, because there's no way to pass each other and get to the other side. Now, in between their eyes is the insides of their bodies, well there's no way to get to the inside without going through the eye, so the eye is like an outer shell to them. A doctor would perform surgery through one's eyes. Now, let's say that they try to imagine a universe where, people can get past each other, they would never of course be able to imagine this. Now if they were to enter a 2-dimensional world, they could of course get past each other. But now their insides are showing. A doctor could perform surgery by simply going up to the side of one of these beings, wouldn't even need to make a cut.
We can always imagine things several dimensions down, and still have symmetry.
Now, let's say you have a meeting, in a big corporate skyscraper. To get there they have to give you several peices of info. Like the street, the avenue of course, but what about the floor, and the time? these are all dimesions we're familiar with. Now, let's say you get to the right floor, of the right building at the right time, and there are numerous conference rooms? What would you do? You're missing a piece of info, and that's equivelant to another dimension, you go in, and he hasn't told you where to sit, of course, these are all areas within space, in the universe, you would be at one point in space, time, and several other dimensions, but these other dimesions are incredibly tiny, so we don't notice their influence.
In a one dimensional universe, to get to a meeting you would need one piece of info, where on the line?
In a 2-D universe, you need 2 peices of info, i.e. width and length
In a 3-D universe you need 3 peices of info, i.e. width, length, and height
In a 4-D universe you need 4 peices of info, i.e. width, length, height and time.
In a 5-D universe you need 5 peices of info, i.e. width, length, height, time and point in another dimension i.e. strings at every point in the universe
In a 6-D universe you need 6 peices of info, i.e. width, length, height, time, latitude and longditude on a sphere...
...In a 9/10/11-D universe you need 9/10/11 peices of info, point in space(3), point in time(1), and point on a calabi yau shape(they're at every point in the universe)(5/6/7)
According to many famous scientists, we live in a universe with 9/10/11 dimensions
NOTE: my examples of info are just examples, since the entire universe is symmetrical, you could swap any parameter for any other, i.e. a 2-D universe with length and time
They're all symmetrical, they just have different lengths, Most people(including certain physicists) beleive that time is special, not similar to other dimesions. They beleive that the universe is finite, but you can never fall off(like the earth in a 2-D(plus time) world, it is finite, but you can literally, keep on going, and going and going. I beleive that time is the same, after a certain amount of time, we will end up in the exact same situation as we are now, probably after a very long time.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoodenFire on 2006-09-05 at 15:30:07
So basically, there are dimensions that are...
Width, Length, Height, Time, ect...
To create a mult-phased dimension (more than one) like...
2D - Dimension & Dimension
Real interesting material from String Theory.
Width, Length, Height, Time, ect...
To create a mult-phased dimension (more than one) like...
2D - Dimension & Dimension
Real interesting material from String Theory.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Laser_Dude on 2006-09-05 at 20:16:56
That wasn't string theory, even though it involves strings, string theory implies that everything, electron, photons, gravitons, are all made out of vibrating strings, which vibrate differently to make different things, i.e. a top-quark.
"length"/"height"/"width" aren't necessarily dimensions, it's just what we use to represent different directions that you need to determine a point in space. There is no "up" with which to represent the universe, so I'm just picking certain directions to explain better, you could turn them around any way you wanted and not have problems.
"length"/"height"/"width" aren't necessarily dimensions, it's just what we use to represent different directions that you need to determine a point in space. There is no "up" with which to represent the universe, so I'm just picking certain directions to explain better, you could turn them around any way you wanted and not have problems.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lithium on 2006-09-09 at 08:27:09
So this thread is getting out of topic... so I'll just end it with a paragraph or two.
Black Hole A black hole is the collapsed core of an super massive star that exploded in super nova. The core of the star is compressed into a tiny space because of the explosion around the core's force was immense, and the core is compressed and thus Black Hole.
The gravity around the event horizon, the high gravity area not far from the hole itself is so strong, that even light cannot escape its grasp. They say the black hole is a singularity, but it hasn't been proved yet ( clouds and dust cover around the black hole, and you can't see the event horizon clearly nor you can see black hole )
p.s. - Dimension concept are only another Sci-Fi junk.
Black Hole A black hole is the collapsed core of an super massive star that exploded in super nova. The core of the star is compressed into a tiny space because of the explosion around the core's force was immense, and the core is compressed and thus Black Hole.
The gravity around the event horizon, the high gravity area not far from the hole itself is so strong, that even light cannot escape its grasp. They say the black hole is a singularity, but it hasn't been proved yet ( clouds and dust cover around the black hole, and you can't see the event horizon clearly nor you can see black hole )
p.s. - Dimension concept are only another Sci-Fi junk.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-09-09 at 18:28:29
QUOTE(ViolentMoose @ Aug 30 2006, 10:33 AM)
BLack holes are just a Rip in space that Eatand suck anything that gets near it and Sqush it to the size of water drop.
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Atomic singularities are not water drop sized. The singularity in a black hole is a 3 dimensional representation of something 1 dimensional.
QUOTE(WoodenFire @ Aug 31 2006, 05:12 PM)
Maybe...
• Dimension One - Distance
• Dimension Two - Perspective
• Dimension Three - Objective
• Dimension Four - Time
• Dimension Five - Gravity
• Dimension Six - Electromagetisim
• Dimension Seven - Weak Nuclear
• Dimension Eight - Strong Nuclear
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• Dimension One - Distance
• Dimension Two - Perspective
• Dimension Three - Objective
• Dimension Four - Time
• Dimension Five - Gravity
• Dimension Six - Electromagetisim
• Dimension Seven - Weak Nuclear
• Dimension Eight - Strong Nuclear
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Time is not a dimension. The other ones are incorectly labeled. Gravity, electromagnetism, weak nuclear and strong nuclear are fundamental forces, not dimensions. Also there's 11-26 dimensions residing in the superstring theory. The other dimensions are also spatial in nature, but subatomic and therefor unmeasureable. 4+ dimensional objects have content instead of volume.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoAHorde2 on 2006-09-09 at 18:36:32
No Time is considered the 4th dimmension.The known four dimensions are Length,Height,Width and Time.I could explain how..but I'm much to lazy
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-09-09 at 18:59:59
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoAHorde2 on 2006-09-09 at 19:14:56
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-09-09 at 19:42:36
I will accept a theory of time as the fourth dimension if you can tell me how time makes an object 4 dimensional. No matter how long it stays there, a cube is a cube is a cube.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoAHorde2 on 2006-09-09 at 19:50:41
I will search through what I have.A book I have somewhere describes it well..I beleive it is by Hawking.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lithium on 2006-09-09 at 20:41:53
If Horde's logic sounds right, then we're all 4D critters.
and no matter how you say it... these concepts are mathematical. It doesnt have to do with time.
and no matter how you say it... these concepts are mathematical. It doesnt have to do with time.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoAHorde2 on 2006-09-09 at 22:14:40
According to String theory,there could be possibly 10 or 11 dimensions.And in other theorys,as proposed by some Scientist I always see on TV,says there could be an entire Universe right in front of you,but unable to make contact.
The possiblities.....
But anyway we should stay on the Black Hole/DImmension stuff.
The possiblities.....
But anyway we should stay on the Black Hole/DImmension stuff.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-09-09 at 22:43:53
WoAHorde2
You seem to act like you know a lot more than you are really telling us. SO please, tell me about these other dimensions you are speeking of. Thats is if you do know what they are, you say theres 11?
You seem to act like you know a lot more than you are really telling us. SO please, tell me about these other dimensions you are speeking of. Thats is if you do know what they are, you say theres 11?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoAHorde2 on 2006-09-09 at 23:06:02
7-7 you are right abot me knowing alot.It's jsut that I'm so addicted to Cosmology,I forget half the stuff for days at a time.I will explain the dimensions or at l;east being by noon tomorrow(PAcific Time).Maybe tonight,I have to finish up some HW.
ADDITION:
Ok I'm going to start pulling links now,and maybe a copy-paste of an article.
Please note I'm only skimming through the posted articles.
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/16/11/8
Mainly string theory,says that 6 or 7 dimmensions should be "curled up" inside of one.
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/99
Just found this..looks like some discussion.
http://samvak.tripod.com/string01.html
Discussing curled up dimmensions at planck length(which is very VERY small).
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
Also the show NOVA hosted on the Internet,discusses string theory.
ADDITION:
Ok I'm going to start pulling links now,and maybe a copy-paste of an article.
Please note I'm only skimming through the posted articles.
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/16/11/8
Mainly string theory,says that 6 or 7 dimmensions should be "curled up" inside of one.
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/99
Just found this..looks like some discussion.
http://samvak.tripod.com/string01.html
Discussing curled up dimmensions at planck length(which is very VERY small).
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
Also the show NOVA hosted on the Internet,discusses string theory.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CommmanderMoo19 on 2006-09-10 at 17:58:17
black holes form when an old star implodes on itself creating a massive black hole 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoAHorde2 on 2006-09-10 at 18:12:39
FOr the love of exsistance,don't post in this topic..or possibly serious discussion..ever again,unless you fix your grammar.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-09-10 at 20:57:22
QUOTE(WoAHorde2 @ Sep 9 2006, 10:05 PM)
7-7 you are right abot me knowing alot.It's jsut that I'm so addicted to Cosmology,I forget half the stuff for days at a time.I will explain the dimensions or at l;east being by noon tomorrow(PAcific Time).Maybe tonight,I have to finish up some HW.
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You're out of your league, this is a discussion on quantum mechanics/physics.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoAHorde2 on 2006-09-10 at 23:18:33
I just opened up that strong theory reply...that relates to this...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by l)ark_13 on 2006-09-12 at 01:24:06
QUOTE(7-7 @ Sep 9 2006, 08:43 PM)
WoAHorde2
You seem to act like you know a lot more than you are really telling us. SO please, tell me about these other dimensions you are speeking of. Thats is if you do know what they are, you say theres 11?
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You seem to act like you know a lot more than you are really telling us. SO please, tell me about these other dimensions you are speeking of. Thats is if you do know what they are, you say theres 11?
[right][snapback]558191[/snapback][/right]
Dimensions are not nessisarilly what you think they are (weird messed up places like in worm holes or blackholes). They are measurements of position, for example:
In a 1D world you would say what part of the line you're on.
In a 2D world you would say what your position is relative to the x and y axis. In a 3D world you would describe your position using a third axis, z. 4 dimensions would include what time you will be in these x,y, and z coordinates. a 5th dimension is just another way to describe the position something is in.
From what I understand the 5th dimension is like this:
Say you are an ant on a telephone wire. to you, the wire looks like a 3D world where you can walk around the whole thing, like the earth. But to us humans from far away, the wire looks like a 1 dimensional object. I dont exactly know how to put it, but the 5th dimension is basically the perception of the dimension. Its like where you are in relation to the other dimensions.