Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-09-05 at 12:05:07
I'm thinking of arranging a Top vs. Bottom competition. Yep. Top vs. Bottom.
The catch? Map editors and computer players only! Or in other words, with a set of starting rules, "players" set their forces, and using triggers and AI only, make them fight.
I'm still planning out what rules would apply for this and how to arrange it. Anyone interested in helping?
The catch? Map editors and computer players only! Or in other words, with a set of starting rules, "players" set their forces, and using triggers and AI only, make them fight.
I'm still planning out what rules would apply for this and how to arrange it. Anyone interested in helping?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lord_Agamemnon(MM) on 2006-09-05 at 12:14:35
Sounds pretty awesome. I can't help, unfortunately, although I'd like to see some of the replays once it's over. How exactly would you compare the maps?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Heegu on 2006-09-05 at 12:25:58
So we like.. Make a melee Ai (sort of) and battle them?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PCFredZ on 2006-09-05 at 12:28:13
Create one 256x256 location "Pwnage"
Center location "Pwnage" onto Building owned by P1 at "Anywhere"
Kill all Buildings for Foes at "Pwnage"
Center location "Pwnage" onto Building owned by P1 at "Anywhere"
Kill all Buildings for Foes at "Pwnage"
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-09-05 at 12:29:31
QUOTE
So we like.. Make a melee Ai (sort of) and battle them?
More like, you pick either top or bottom of a map template, then using as many units as you want up to half the CCMU limit (forget offhand), and 5 or so unique location, you set triggers to manipulate units from your side to the other to do battle.There'd have to be some more solid rules than that, sure, which I'm still thinking of.
The battles would take place by using SCMDraft to copy the units and triggers from each "player's" map into a single one, and then watching the fun take place!
Man I'm excited already!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-09-05 at 12:50:28
Rofl, sounds entertaining.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by KABOOM on 2006-09-05 at 13:03:24
QUOTE(Killer_Kow(MM) @ Sep 5 2006, 11:50 AM)
Rofl, sounds entertaining.
[right][snapback]555805[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]555805[/snapback][/right]
^
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-05 at 13:04:10
Very interesting. Maybe make a unit limit... or better yet, give the players a set amount of resources andthey can buy anything in that limit.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-09-05 at 13:09:36
I like the resources idea. I know a good way I could implement that with the map template and triggers.
I was also thinking of either making the requirement to have only pre-placed units (no 'create unit' at all), or to do it Madness-style and continually spawn units for each player.
Ideas?
I was also thinking of either making the requirement to have only pre-placed units (no 'create unit' at all), or to do it Madness-style and continually spawn units for each player.
Ideas?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lord_Agamemnon(MM) on 2006-09-05 at 13:14:45
I like the preplaced and set resource ideas. Would participants get a copy of the map to be used in advance? And wouldn't you just end up with masses of BCs attacking each other madly?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-09-05 at 13:18:27
Well just use some ghosts, scourges, or arbiters to counter. 
SC's natural unit balance would be what would make this interesting. Along with seeing what people would come up with as far as how to do battle using only triggers.
I've almost finished the first draft for the rules, but I think we need a few test runs of this to get a feel for how to do it properly. Any volunteers?
SC's natural unit balance would be what would make this interesting. Along with seeing what people would come up with as far as how to do battle using only triggers.
I've almost finished the first draft for the rules, but I think we need a few test runs of this to get a feel for how to do it properly. Any volunteers?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-05 at 13:23:32
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ Sep 5 2006, 08:09 PM)
I like the resources idea. I know a good way I could implement that with the map template and triggers.
I was also thinking of either making the requirement to have only pre-placed units (no 'create unit' at all), or to do it Madness-style and continually spawn units for each player.
Ideas?
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I was also thinking of either making the requirement to have only pre-placed units (no 'create unit' at all), or to do it Madness-style and continually spawn units for each player.
Ideas?
[right][snapback]555815[/snapback][/right]
I think you should have only pre-placed units. Because otherwise one player can just flood everything with BC's and Arbiters
Maybe even allow the contestants edit unit stats ? (but this may create some problems with "I picked that unit first"), but that way you can create heroes. I suggest a formula that will include:
-Type of unit (let's face it, a ranged fighter-heroe will value more than a probe
)-Attack
-HP
-Armor
Let's say a good unit type that has range, deals equal damage to units of all size, and has abilities will cost you 200 points, when editing a probe's stats will cost you only 50 points.
+1 damage costs 1 point.
1 HP costs 1 point.
1 armor costs 1 point.
So you have a max of 500 points. You can pick a maximum of 2 heroes (so one person doesen't pick all the most useful units not to leave them for the enemy contestants and give their heroe 1 attack, 1 HP, 0 armor)
You can add a rule that you can make an abilities for your heroe... but with some limitations. Just like in an RPG.
.... I'm still thinking
What do you think about this ?ADDITION:
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ Sep 5 2006, 08:18 PM)
Any volunteers?
What do you mean ? What do you need help with ? To fight you a fiew times to see how it all works out ?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-09-05 at 13:32:11
I'd do it, but it depends when. Right now I'm ironing out bugs for my demo release, so I can't test/help now.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-09-05 at 16:05:29
QUOTE(Jammed @ Sep 5 2006, 12:23 PM)
I think you should have only pre-placed units. Because otherwise one player can just flood everything with BC's and Arbiters
Maybe even allow the contestants edit unit stats ? (but this may create some problems with "I picked that unit first"), but that way you can create heroes. I suggest a formula that will include:
-Type of unit (let's face it, a ranged fighter-heroe will value more than a probe )
-Attack
-HP
-Armor
Let's say a good unit type that has range, deals equal damage to units of all size, and has abilities will cost you 200 points, when editing a probe's stats will cost you only 50 points.
+1 damage costs 1 point.
1 HP costs 1 point.
1 armor costs 1 point.
So you have a max of 500 points. You can pick a maximum of 2 heroes (so one person doesen't pick all the most useful units not to leave them for the enemy contestants and give their heroe 1 attack, 1 HP, 0 armor)
You can add a rule that you can make an abilities for your heroe... but with some limitations. Just like in an RPG.
.... I'm still thinking What do you think about this ?
ADDITION:
What do you mean ? What do you need help with ? To fight you a fiew times to see how it all works out ?
[right][snapback]555820[/snapback][/right]
Maybe even allow the contestants edit unit stats ? (but this may create some problems with "I picked that unit first"), but that way you can create heroes. I suggest a formula that will include:
-Type of unit (let's face it, a ranged fighter-heroe will value more than a probe
)-Attack
-HP
-Armor
Let's say a good unit type that has range, deals equal damage to units of all size, and has abilities will cost you 200 points, when editing a probe's stats will cost you only 50 points.
+1 damage costs 1 point.
1 HP costs 1 point.
1 armor costs 1 point.
So you have a max of 500 points. You can pick a maximum of 2 heroes (so one person doesen't pick all the most useful units not to leave them for the enemy contestants and give their heroe 1 attack, 1 HP, 0 armor)
You can add a rule that you can make an abilities for your heroe... but with some limitations. Just like in an RPG.
.... I'm still thinking
What do you think about this ?ADDITION:
What do you mean ? What do you need help with ? To fight you a fiew times to see how it all works out ?
[right][snapback]555820[/snapback][/right]
Yeah basically.
Guys I'll be on later today to post my plan. I'm being called away right now. I'll have everything together then.
ADDITION:
Anyway Jammed, I'm thinking I'll stick with vanilla SC units/stats/prices, to keep things balanced (and it's less work for me
). I'll require everything to be pre-placed, and simply use minerals/gas as the limit for how much stuff each side can have. I'll build into the map a way to check all the units and buildings and countoff their costs, to enforce that rule.Other than that, and some limits with trigger actions, you're basically free to have your computer do whatever they want with their budget and units.
It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-09-05 at 16:34:56
Sweet. I'll help you do some testing or whatever if you need it. PM or IM me.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Xx.Doom.xX on 2006-09-05 at 16:45:27
That seems awesome!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PCFredZ on 2006-09-05 at 17:57:26
Stick with preset SC stats so Units and Triggers are the only things you need to port.
Here's some help with the rules. I've taken a look at all available actions and sorted out the ones that don't "hack" the game:
Move Location
Order
Run AI Script
Run AI Script At Location
Set Death
Set Switch
Preserve Trigger
Otherwise, imagine if someone just put Always -> Victory.
Here's some help with the rules. I've taken a look at all available actions and sorted out the ones that don't "hack" the game:
Move Location
Order
Run AI Script
Run AI Script At Location
Set Death
Set Switch
Preserve Trigger
Otherwise, imagine if someone just put Always -> Victory.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-09-06 at 00:19:57
Yes, that thought crossed my mind. Thanks for pointing out those actions, though. That helps a bit.
Now that I'm on, I'll have the rules updated shortly, and I'll try to gt on bnet soon to see if I can run a few test scenarios.
Now, what should I use for prizes if I host this?
Now that I'm on, I'll have the rules updated shortly, and I'll try to gt on bnet soon to see if I can run a few test scenarios.
Now, what should I use for prizes if I host this?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-06 at 09:48:22
And how about allowing create units trigger if the unit gets removed/killed shortly after it's creating (cannot have any effect over events). Like grid systems....
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kenoli on 2006-09-06 at 11:16:07
Do the units get upgrades and abilities? It would be weird without all the unit's spells enabled.
Do you get to use any hero units? "Limit One" maybe.
Do you get to use any hero units? "Limit One" maybe.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-09-06 at 11:51:20
I'm not sure yet. Hero units DO have default costs for them, but I question their balance.
As for spells and stuff, yes. I might as well turn them all on, in fact, just for simplicity's sake. It'd also make things more interesting.
As for spells and stuff, yes. I might as well turn them all on, in fact, just for simplicity's sake. It'd also make things more interesting.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-06 at 13:09:38
Need any testers ? PM me 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-09-06 at 14:05:29
Ok finished outlining the rules. Sorry for the wait:
ADDITION:
Keep in mind there'll also be a base map to use for this, which those rules will apply for.
QUOTE
Rules-
Gameplay- Each player gets 100000 minerals, 25000 gas.
Players pre-place all their units, which draw from their resource alotment.
Triggers cannot explicitely create new units (see list below).
The following trigger actions are prohibited- Create unit
Create unit w/ Properties
Draw
Modify unit energy
Modify unit hit points
Modify unit resource amount
Modify unit shield points
Pause game
Run AI Script
Set alliance status
Set invincibility
Set next scenario
Set resources
Set score
Victory
The following trigger actions are prohibited except for use on YOUR OWN FORCES ONLY!- Give unit (to P12 only, or to P12 and back)
Kill unit
Kill unit at location
Move unit
Remove unit
Remove unit at location
Move location can only be used for the following locations (note: Replace {FORCE} with either top or bottom, respectively)- '{FORCE}- Point 01'
'{FORCE}- Point 02'
'{FORCE}- Point 03 (ground)'
'{FORCE}- Point 04 (air)'
'{FORCE}- Point 05 (wide)'
'[X]'
'[Y]'
Triggers can only be created for the Force you represent (do not create for Player 1 or the other forces)
Triggers or trigger groups labelled "DO NOT MODIFY" are for reference only. They will be overriden when the map is compiled, so don't bother modifying them (that includes rearranging their order, or placing triggers before them).
- 15 minute time limit for matches.
- Player with no buildings left loses.
- 2 players max (top vs. bottom).
- The following units are prohibitted (or in other words, only units you can ordinarily build in-game are allowed)-
- Heroes
- Special buildings (Overminds, Xel-Naga Temples, Ion Cannons, etc.)
- Beacons
- Powerups
- Critters
- Doodad units
- Spells
- Zerg eggs
- Independant/Unused units
- Extended units
ADDITION:
Keep in mind there'll also be a base map to use for this, which those rules will apply for.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-09-06 at 15:22:37
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ Sep 6 2006, 12:50 PM)
I'm not sure yet. Hero units DO have default costs for them, but I question their balance.
As for spells and stuff, yes. I might as well turn them all on, in fact, just for simplicity's sake. It'd also make things more interesting.
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As for spells and stuff, yes. I might as well turn them all on, in fact, just for simplicity's sake. It'd also make things more interesting.
[right][snapback]556473[/snapback][/right]
Spells and upgrades should take from your resources, in my opinion.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-09-06 at 15:28:41
Can't really put that into triggers, though. 
Without being able to do that, I'd have to trust people to do it manually. I'd rather avoid that if I can.
ADDITION:
Hmm, I need a good name for this. TvB Battle Royal sounds a bit unappealing I think.
Without being able to do that, I'd have to trust people to do it manually. I'd rather avoid that if I can.ADDITION:
Hmm, I need a good name for this. TvB Battle Royal sounds a bit unappealing I think.