Staredit Network

All of you probably remember around 4 months ago something drastic happened:
http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=29623

Now I want you all to know that I made OSMAP (MindArchon made the console).

Of course everyone has their own opinion about whether we should have protection or not, unprotection or not. But we all know that there will always be those who want to protect their rights to "ownership". As CaptainWill so nicely stated:

There will always be protection. And there will always be unprotection. But seeing the map making community today, I see people hiding their knowledge of mapping. I see people losing interest. What is wrong with people? I figured that if I could get them all to see how their predecessors made their maps, I could encourage them to use old techniques to make new ideas.

Many people will tell me:

My map is going to get stolen!
That is inevitable. There have always been map thieves and there always will be. Protection may be a deterrent to theft but is it really worth hiding all your knowledge contained within a map to get some fame with those Battle.net "pubbies". Of course not! As long as SEN exists, people will be known for the great maps they make.

There will be billions of versions of my map!
Yes there will. But does downloading take that long? Not with the newest, faster connections of today. If someone makes a revision on your map that makes people like it more and play it more, is that not to your benefit?

I am not posting this as a debate topic, but as an informational topic.

Now as a "celebration" of 1000 OSMAP entries, I am releasing the source of uBeR@TiOn3:
http://osmap.amidal.com/uberation3.zip

Database:
http://osmap.amidal.com (No there are not links to get to the download of OSMAP from here.)

Haha. Wow. That's all I can say.

So OSMAP submits maps it unprotected to that server, which acts as a database? Interesting concept. Why?

Now I know you all are going to jump on this and go OMFG LOL MAP UNPROTECTION IS BAD.

I'm very different from 2 years ago when I said protection was a good thing. I said it was a good thing because it protects the authors name and prevents people from making cruddy rigged versions.

I look back at that now and say I was in error. Maps should have never been "protected", and theres many good reasons why.

First of all, for making new versions, its going to happen, sure, but everybody these days has DSL, so who cares if you redownload. Although people can replace your name with their name, its possible with a hex editor and string search, protection or no protection. So protection doesn't do very good there.

So, why are people protecting their maps? They're protecting it for bragging rights mainly, which is complete abuse of what it was originally intended for and is no longer necessary for. Thats completely wrong.

As for "retaining fame on battle.net", most of them are interested in playing strip some girl or rigged games. Who honestly cares about regular battle.net users.

The individuals who will use this kind of thing legitimately are the people in the starcraft community. Isn't it so much more fun if you show off your map to your friends on SEN and after the game they check it out and compliment and suggest things on your triggers? Wouldn't it be nice to open one of mooses maps and get a feel for his style and how he does certain things? It would be. I originally made SEN under the "everybody can learn map making" kind of thinking.

This is the final step that SEN must take in becoming a selfless community of one whole instead of a disorganized group of map posters. This can make this community stronger and closer together if everyone shares and acts as equals.

My question to you all, is who's got the balls to to step forward and support this? I do.

Statistics. Also you can brag if someone unprotected your map. Obviously someone liked it enough to do so.

Hello Communism.

Goodbye Dictatorship

Since Yoshi posted, it's more like "Who has the balls to speak against Yoshi?"

I do. I still support people's 'right' to lock their maps.

Your reasoning is so flawed. You believe that the decline in map making and people playing StarCraft is due to protection? The decline is simply due to less people playing the game after eight years. Thusly OSMAP is equally useless because of the vastly reduced community. I cannot see protection or unprotection being used in any serious manner. The only time either matters it when one specific person with unimaginable mental problems becomes an Evil Force of Ultimate Destruction and Ruination. Grudges are ugly business.

For the record, map stealing made Mathrix(U) quit map making.

Guess what, I'm going to "have the balls" to say that a select group of people shouldn't have the right to "take things into their own hands", and direct a community towards what THEY see as being the ideal future. You should leave such decisions up to individual mappers, not force everyone to conform to your views.
Also, you seem to deplore seeking fame on battle.net as a motive, however, for some individuals, it IS a primary motive, and I think that starcraft mapping needs as many mappers as it can get, regardless of their motive.

Well, StarCraft never came with map protection. That should say enough.

That people have spent so long in making StarCraft better only to have it be partly destroyed by one simple program?

I figured some of you would still be against it. I gave my reasons, and I don't think of any of you any less as you would think of me any less. I had nothing to do with the creation of the program, I just support its existence. There was a time in the first few years which starcraft was released that there were no protectors. We survived.

Why is it that a very few handful of people that steal maps should ruin the fun in a community for the rest of us?


If there is a decline in map making due to it getting old, then nothing should matter should it? Map makers shouldn't care then since SC is so "old" as you say.

I've been working with open source for a while. It is actually a wonderful thing if you are open minded and give it a chance. Human beings CAN cooperate and work together if given the chance and example.

Agreed what right does someone have to steal a map? OSMap is like if everyone had a key to open every lock everywhere why would people lock there doors because someone could just open and steal what they worked hard to get

Yeah, well starcraft didn't come with extended units, most AI scripts, or many other "features" that us mappers now take for granted either.

Of course we survived, nothing was done. I never spoke of map stealing or anything. I already know for a face that map stealing is rare and if it does happen, proper credit is still given.

I only argue for a map maker's right to lock their maps. So who are you to take that away from them? Only Blizzard can do that.

Not really. I don't consider SEN the Battle.net map making community at all. None of the new maps people play on Battle.net are made by people who have even heard of this website. SEN is more of a terrorist organization which produces tools that allow the most malicious of human beings to reek unimaginable havoc.

Protection is useful for people who create unimaginably good things, because such unimaginable good inevitably attracts unimaginable evil.

Amen to that. Let each person decide whether or not they want their map protected. If you don't trust your friends enough to give them an unprotected map, then you either need better friends or a phsychologist's attention. If you like someone's triggering, ask them how they did it; that's all there is to it. If fame is someone's objective, let them get it; what harm does it do the rest of us? I'll stand by the option of protection. It's up to the individual to choose.

The motive of bnet fame is becoming less of a motive and online communities are becoming more of one. Unprotectors have been around for a while. Warcraft 3 has many dedicated protectors for a while. Starcraft has had OSmap for a while now too, and why haven't these two communities completely died? Because there is no threat. I've seen warcraft 3 mappers converse and have so much more fun because of the fact that they can open maps and trade knowledge. Shouldn't we do the same? We're a community of mappers helping other mappers, while becoming better mappers ourselves.


How does this "destroy" Starcraft? It doesn't. You are overreacting like many mappers do.

I am neither for nor against this program, nor am I for or against map protection. What you guys want to do with your maps is your problem, not mine. I don't protect my maps, personally, but then again I've never created a masterpiece.

Legally, it was never a right. Blizzard intended for maps to be open source, you don't technically "own" the maps.

I do however believe in proper credits. We should be encouraging that instead of locking it up. People should have the rights to retain acknowledgment for their work.

You misread. I said partly. And that part that is destroyed is people's right to lock the map, so argue against that point.


Just because we don't own the maps doesn't mean we can't modify the maps. Locking a map is no different than putting a marine on the map. We're simply changing the data of a .scm/.scx file.

I'd very much like to see the proof that Blizzard intended maps to be open source.

If by "right" you mean "bragging rights" then you are correct.

ADDITION:

If I make a map with staredit, I can open it with staredit. Thats open source my friend.

Sure you can place units and protect the map. You have the right to, but now people can see your map anyway so theres no point. But you do have the right to.

It's a little too late for choice.

Basically, I'm in a bit of a jam here. I usually don't go outright into politics like this, but I do have two options. I'll try to keep opinions out.

1. Fire LegacyWeapon. SEN (as of now) does not support unprotection in any way, but obviously having a Global Moderator that's created OSMap who is hosting a database of unprotected maps is a serious problem.

2. Rewrite policy - which means SEN starts supporting unprotection now. This results in all of the cries of how "Moose rewrites the rules for his friends" (assuming, as usual, that I favor staff which I did not hire). All of the Anti-Elitism crusaders will pick up their swords and banners and run amok. Map stealing still remains a crime and will probably see an increase.

Everyone's views on this matter are horribly distorted by your limited knowledge of the very things you claim to stand for. The StarEdit network is not map making, it never has been, and it never will be. The real map makers on Battle.net have never been to this website and they likely never will be. Anyone who utilizes this website as a springboard for their map making has never created a map that was played on Battle.net by countless people. You have nothing to worry about when it comes to protection and unprotection. The problem with these programs is that the REAL map makers are now affected by your actions. The members of SEN with malicious take these tools and harm REAL map makers on Battle.net. You give guns to children and then put them into a room filled with intelligent mature human beings and praise their destruction because you neglect to see that the intelligent mature beings ever existed in the first place. You are bloated animals with no regard for what you do, and you tarnish the practices of production. Only a few members among you have ever proved useful for even a moment, if only to unveil some new and amazing technique which is instantly patched by Blizzard. You are utterly useless and your only power is to destroy. You are in a single word, evil. You are chaos innate, destruction, rampant and loose upon the world.