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Staredit Network -> UMS Assistance -> Trigger Help
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yobbo on 2006-12-16 at 04:24:56
Ok so. I am creating a new map for starcraft and im having difficulty adding some triggers. I am not sure if this is even possible but... it would help a lot if you could at least put me on the right path if u dont have a solution. If anyone requires info on the map itself it is a Rather Large Map. Like a real war but with differences as the units are Unreal (unreal tournament style)

Trigger 1: Unit Regeneration
So what i want is for a unit to regenerate Hit Points Over Time As If being healed by a medic. The only possible related trigger would be modify unit hitpoints however this does not suffice as u cannot simply add hitpoints but rather set them to a percentage which does not suite the map i am attempting to create.
NOTE: I would also like this to work for Unit Mana

Trigger 2: Increasing Unit Attack/HP/AttkCooldown
Ok this one is definately not possible (prove me wrong). I want to increase a units hit points or attack points, slow a unit, increase a units attk cooldown. I am 99.999etc% sure that this isnt possible (without changing the unit completly eg. Changing a ling to a devouring one to edit the stats).
If anyone has any possible solutions to this give us a buzz.

Trigger 3: Stun
Ok like a wc3 stun pauses a unit for a short time. Ok what i have tried for this. Disabling a Unit for 2 seconds. This does not work if some units are disabled it crashes starcraft as does enableing disabled units again. At this point i have no idea how this is going to work. Any ideas please tell.

Trigger 4: Reducing Hp From Units
Ok So for eg a WC Spell like shockwave Damages enemy units in a line. Is it possible at all to just damage an enemy unit rather than setting its hit points to something (which could lead to healing it) or killing it completely.

Trigger 5: Damaging Enemy Units Regardless Of Armour
Ok so the SC Armour System is a bummer for this map. As im sure most of u are aware starcraft armour just cancels out its value against an attack value eg. 10 damage against 4 armour would do 6 damage
Is it possible to just deal the straight 10 damage without using the effects of armour (a possible spell that enables a unit to do this). Once again i do not want to use the set unit hit points trigger.

Trigger 6: Unit Hitpoint Tracking
So what i want to be able to do is track a units hitpoints. Eg.
A unit kills another with exactly 100% hitpoints add 2 minerals
A unit kills another with at least 10% at most 99% Hitpoints add 1 mineral
A unit Kills another with at most 9% hitpoints add 5 minerals
Etc.
Is it possible to do this or something similar Yes/No

Trigger 7: Differant Attk Damage
Ok so like a real war hitting humans on different parts of the body does more less damage depending on whether the wound is fatal or not. So a shot to the head (Headshot) is pretty much an instant kill whilst a shot to the leg or something wounds but isnt fatal. Is it possible to add an effect like this to a unit. Like in wc3 how the damage can be 10-15.

Trigger 8: Protoss Buildings Without Pylons
Is it at all possible to make a protoss building besides a nexus work without a pylon Yes/No How?

Trigger 9: Vampuric Aura
Like Vampuric Aura from Wc3 a unit kills another and regains hitpoints from it. Possible Yes/No How?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-12-16 at 04:51:19
QUOTE(Yobbo @ Dec 16 2006, 12:24 PM)
Trigger 1: Unit Regeneration

Virtual HP
QUOTE(Yobbo @ Dec 16 2006, 12:24 PM)
Trigger 2: Increasing Unit Attack/HP/AttkCooldown

You can give upgrades to players, but not more. You can't increase the maximum unit HP. So again, VHP.
QUOTE(Yobbo @ Dec 16 2006, 12:24 PM)
Trigger 3: Stun

Give the unit to a neutral player? I'm not sure about setting neutral player to enemy status, so you can auto-attack them. If you can't ally a neutral player and you really need your units to auto-attack you can try and give the bashed unit to a PC player, that has a trigger that always sets the human player to ally (with hypertriggers).
QUOTE(Yobbo @ Dec 16 2006, 12:24 PM)
Trigger 4: Reducing Hp From Units

VHP.
QUOTE(Yobbo @ Dec 16 2006, 12:24 PM)
Trigger 5: Damaging Enemy Units Regardless Of Armour

Same as above.
QUOTE(Yobbo @ Dec 16 2006, 12:24 PM)
Trigger 6: Unit Hitpoint Tracking

VHP again.
QUOTE(Yobbo @ Dec 16 2006, 12:24 PM)
Trigger 7: Differant Attk Damage

Again
QUOTE(Yobbo @ Dec 16 2006, 12:24 PM)
Trigger 8: Protoss Buildings Without Pylons

You can make the pylon not visible, by turning off vision for yourself and giving vision to yourself via a PC player that has map revealers, but it will make your life much harder.
QUOTE(Yobbo @ Dec 16 2006, 12:24 PM)
Trigger 9: Vampuric Aura

To do this, you must detect when a certain unit (out of many possible) attacks an enemy. I know no ways of doing this.
Only if all the units that have the aura effect them have different damage and all units have VHP. Then, you can tell what unit attacked the target by the damage taken.

VHP
Hyper Triggers
Hyper Triggers conceptual part
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yobbo on 2006-12-16 at 05:01:24
Ok I understand most of that and i did read the Virtual Hit Point Tutorial However i am unawares on how i could add something like that in say a 3v3 map with 2 pcs controlling each base. Eg DotA for SC (im not making that)
Ive looked at each method Method 1 simply will not work (cycling through pc players with each hit)

Method 2: i will look into But a unit dieing and respawning is going too look weird in a warfare map

Method 3: wont work for units that cant burrow.


Do you have any other ways of working with Virtual Hitpoints or do you have any other solutions besides virtual hitpoints


O btw Trigger 8 (pylons) has been solved Just Enable the buildings using doodad states
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-12-16 at 05:10:02
QUOTE(Yobbo @ Dec 16 2006, 01:01 PM)
O btw Trigger 8 (pylons) has been solved Just Enable the buildings using doodad states
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I never knew. Thanks smile.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by rockz on 2006-12-16 at 05:54:22
Okay, VHP could still work for you, since you can just use burrowed zerglings for all your units' hp. Now, if you have a whole lot of units like in diplo or something, then this map is futile and would require LOTS of triggers, many of which would be buggy.

My beef with VHP is that using the burrowed units make them slow down. That's just not cool in my opinion.

Cooldown can be changed, but only if you use a gunner system. So that means your unit would have to be a defiler or a corsair. For extra HP, I'm assuming you want hp over your max. In that case, just make sure what you set as your "max" can be increased over that limit. VHP is your friend here. For increasing unit speed, like on a zergling, you can create a unit for the computer player who has zergling speed, give it to the player, remove it, and now all your zerglings move faster. As a side effect of VHP, you also move slower, so if you want, you can temporarily disable vhp, resulting in a fast moving invincible unit.

Now, on your regeneration question, it is possible to detect unit hp with PCs and Extended Unit Deaths, but the parameters got jumbled in the patch, and nobody has found them again, or nobody cares, sine EUDs are really hard to use and incompatible with Macs. Whatever. This would also work for your Unit Hitpoint Tracking, but again, difficult to use.

Those are the only two ways I know of to modify HP and such, and they are pretty much going to be your only ways. From the looks of you you will definitely want to be using VHP for all the advanced things you want to do.

For your vampiric aura, as a sideeffect of VHP, you will have a location centered on the unit. I'm hoping that you are planning to just use 1 unit per person, because otherwise this could get so complicated it's not even funny anymore. Right now it's worth a chuckle. Anyway, detect when someone is in your location area, and set a switch, that when set, tells us there is a person in the aura. This switch should be specific to a player and a unit. Then, when that player suffers 1 death of that unit, and the switch is set, add hp, and reset deaths of that unit to 0. The order you put the triggers will be very important here.

I'm confused by what you mean by pc, since it could mean player character for DnD geeks, or personal computer, or player controlled, which could mean the player or a computer.

As a final warning to you. These ideas look to be MENACING, and I don't use that word lightly, thus the caps. Tread carefully, and please don't take on a project so immense that you won't be able to finish it. I've already done that plenty of times, and so has just about every other mapmaker. This turned into one hell of an essay.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-12-16 at 11:50:29
QUOTE(rockz @ Dec 16 2006, 02:54 AM)
My beef with VHP is that using the burrowed units make them slow down.  That's just not cool in my opinion.
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there are many ways to overcome this. such as using a timer( >3 deaths), or by detecting that the player is no longer over the burrowed units before recenting them.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by spinesheath on 2006-12-16 at 11:56:16
VHP does not suit a war map, I guess.
I suppose that you can build units, and there are tons of them. VHP is just VERY complex with variable and high unit counts, and absolutely not practicable.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by rockz on 2006-12-16 at 17:42:13
QUOTE(spinesheath @ Dec 16 2006, 11:56 AM)
VHP does not suit a war map, I guess.
I suppose that you can build units, and there are tons of them. VHP is just VERY complex with variable and high unit counts, and absolutely not practicable.
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As I said, this map would be one hell of a map if you got it working.

And did you mean practical, spineshealth? I think I could practice pretty easily on the map.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kazuma on 2006-12-16 at 18:07:21
Trigger 3: Stun
Ok like a wc3 stun pauses a unit for a short time. Ok what i have tried for this. Disabling a Unit for 2 seconds. This does not work if some units are disabled it crashes starcraft as does enableing disabled units again. At this point i have no idea how this is going to work. Any ideas please tell.

Sorry i can help with this, You can use the same thing that bounders use the gravity pull thing altough i dont know how to do it im sure someone here does.


Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yobbo on 2006-12-16 at 19:10:37
Well thanks for the imput guys as i can see this is going to be VERY VERY HARD to make so the question is do i start or do i not ...
As for the virtual hitpoints that everyone has been suggesting i dont think that is going to work in a war map so i may just tone the complexity of the map done when i do begin work on this map.

Any other comments suggestions will still be greatly appreciated.

Does anyone have a solution to VHP that would work in a war map. Players get 1 unit each (+a Dropship loaded with units for spells, and another dropship with items). So anything because with virtual hitpoints it is going to look weird with say a marine dieing and then respawning ...
Unless i used hyper triggers in which case it could look like the marine is losing blood... lol that would be cool + the sound effects of a marine dieing. So when he gets shot he loses blood and you here the AAARRRGHHH thing
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-12-16 at 19:16:51
lol, so its like an rpg, where you control one unit? in that case, VHP WILL work.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yobbo on 2006-12-16 at 19:30:28
Not as in an rpg their a two bases one north left and one south right in the middle their are a number of "terrain Bunkers, trees, trecnches etc and the idea is to push the enemie lines bak. You control 1 hero Unreal Tournament Style with both ranged and melee attacks and a set of spells. The main objective is to destroy the oppositions base. And your team has periodic spawn their are hidden shops around the map and yer a whole lot of other stuff i decided to add
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-12-17 at 01:19:27
by rpg, i was referring to how many units you controlled at one time. VHP doesn't care what kinda map you're making wink.gif . so, yes, VHP would work perfectly in this scenario.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by rockz on 2006-12-17 at 02:49:51
controlling 1 unit is gold for vhp.

Also, consider using buildings for spells instead of dropships. a gateway is easily hotkeyable and you can easily make something with it via ingame hotkeys.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by KABOOM on 2006-12-17 at 16:00:16
QUOTE(Kazuma @ Dec 16 2006, 06:07 PM)
Trigger 3: Stun
Ok like a wc3 stun pauses a unit for a short time. Ok what i have tried for this. Disabling a Unit for 2 seconds. This does not work if some units are disabled it crashes starcraft as does enableing disabled units again. At this point i have no idea how this is going to work. Any ideas please tell.

Sorry i can help with this, You can use the same thing that bounders use the gravity pull thing altough i dont know how to do it im sure someone here does.
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Give to a neutral player? (pl12) or use the move trigger to move them to a unwalkable location so they cannot move but atk, also u can invincible them if u want him to live, but first suggesting is probably the best Stun affect.
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