Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cheesus on 2006-12-16 at 12:48:42
I've been wondering this for a long time now, and I've just came to ask it to get it off my chest: why do you people use Starcraft for editing? I mean, the editor kinda sucks, the triggers are limited, the code is obsolete, the graphics are horrible, the entire game is in 2D, and I just don't see why you people don't use Warcraft 3 if you're into making custom maps. I can understand melee becuase SC is a wonderfully balanced game, but with the Warcraft 3 editor using hundreds more triggers, way better graphics, import capability, and a larger fanbase, I just don't see the point; I know you're trying to "push staredit to it's limits" but seriously, using something this outdated trying to code in is like trying to use a 1940's black and white camera to create an academy award winning film. This isn't hate or being mean or anything, I just wanted to ask what you're trying to accomplish using an editor almost nine years old, becuase personally, I'm really confused.
-Cheese Jesus
-Cheese Jesus
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lord_Agamemnon(MM) on 2006-12-16 at 13:00:11
Well, we have better editors around now, for one thing. If you're still using the Starcraft Campaign Editor, you need to get with the times.
For another thing, we like Starcraft. It's fun. Warcraft just isn't the same.
And a final thing about it: we (or at least I) do it because it's hard. Any n00b can make a complex map in Warcraft III. Any idiot could make DotA with enough time. But in Starcraft, you really need to push yourself and try hard to make a good map. A new idea shines even more when you know it took a lot of effort to implement it.
For another thing, we like Starcraft. It's fun. Warcraft just isn't the same.
And a final thing about it: we (or at least I) do it because it's hard. Any n00b can make a complex map in Warcraft III. Any idiot could make DotA with enough time. But in Starcraft, you really need to push yourself and try hard to make a good map. A new idea shines even more when you know it took a lot of effort to implement it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by spinesheath on 2006-12-16 at 13:39:32
I second that, even the bare fact that SC limits you so much does make it so appealing.
If you want to do something in SC you have to be creative. Stuff like board/card games required lots of fantasy when they were "invented" for SC. To create a decent RPG (not the hack'n'slash ones) requires you to think of innovative ways of doing something.
Beacon/dropship/gateway selection systems were invented, just to name a few. And we're still not at the end of the road.
Casting custom spells in SC is not simple - you have to find a suitable way to deal damage and put together an animation out of all kinds of things SC has to offer.
In WC3, everything is already there. That's just boring. Absolutely no challenge, the only thing you need is lots of free time (not that you would get away without that in SC mapping, though).
If you want to do something in SC you have to be creative. Stuff like board/card games required lots of fantasy when they were "invented" for SC. To create a decent RPG (not the hack'n'slash ones) requires you to think of innovative ways of doing something.
Beacon/dropship/gateway selection systems were invented, just to name a few. And we're still not at the end of the road.
Casting custom spells in SC is not simple - you have to find a suitable way to deal damage and put together an animation out of all kinds of things SC has to offer.
In WC3, everything is already there. That's just boring. Absolutely no challenge, the only thing you need is lots of free time (not that you would get away without that in SC mapping, though).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by xmrxsiegecopx on 2006-12-16 at 13:42:56
For me, it's because StarCraft is an original concept by Blizzard compared to their Warcraft franchise.
I also prefer StarCraft over Warcraft because of its popularity among older gamers and the fact that there are far less newbies to deal with. The maps you make are judged by mappers who have worked as hard or harder than you have, telling you your good and bad habits and techniques (constructive criticism).
Finally, StarCraft is my #1 favorite 2D RTS of all time. It requires less CPU resources than WarCraft III on my computer and the fact that I have played it far more than any other video game (other than SSBM, Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, and FFVII) also contributes to why I still prefer it over Warcraft.
Also, I probably would have quit StarCraft ages ago if it wasn't for SeN's tutorial database teaching me it's uBer mapping methods; actually, the reason why I went to SeN in the first place was to learn how Hyper Triggers work.
I also prefer StarCraft over Warcraft because of its popularity among older gamers and the fact that there are far less newbies to deal with. The maps you make are judged by mappers who have worked as hard or harder than you have, telling you your good and bad habits and techniques (constructive criticism).
Finally, StarCraft is my #1 favorite 2D RTS of all time. It requires less CPU resources than WarCraft III on my computer and the fact that I have played it far more than any other video game (other than SSBM, Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, and FFVII) also contributes to why I still prefer it over Warcraft.
Also, I probably would have quit StarCraft ages ago if it wasn't for SeN's tutorial database teaching me it's uBer mapping methods; actually, the reason why I went to SeN in the first place was to learn how Hyper Triggers work.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-12-16 at 13:54:24
QUOTE(Lord_Agamemnon(MM) @ Dec 16 2006, 10:00 AM)
And a final thing about it: we (or at least I) do it because it's hard. Any n00b can make a complex map in Warcraft III. Any idiot could make DotA with enough time. But in Starcraft, you really need to push yourself and try hard to make a good map. A new idea shines even more when you know it took a lot of effort to implement it.
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amen to that
Report, edit, etc...Posted by fritfrat(U) on 2006-12-16 at 15:29:55
I just don't like how heroes and items work in warcraft III. Seriously, that one aspect bugged me so much about it that I play starcraft instead. I always thought that warcraft III's editor was better, but starcraft's maps can be more fun to play.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-12-16 at 15:32:22
SC isn't a black and white camera - you can't judge a game by it's release date.
You know, huge possibilities, good 3D graphics and all that stuff doesen't make me like WC3 more than I like SC.
You know, huge possibilities, good 3D graphics and all that stuff doesen't make me like WC3 more than I like SC.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheatEnabled on 2006-12-16 at 16:12:50
WC3 has DotA, and nothing else. Look at battle.net for WC3, and see if you can find an RPG. The closest thing you get is DotA. A defence. Dota. Dota, DotA, Dota. There's DotA all over. I'm not saying DotA is bad, it's actually a really great map, and IceFrog must be a genius to come up wit the idea, but DotA fills up the space on WC3. There are no room for other maps. On Starcraft, however, there are various maps around at all times.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodle77(MM) on 2006-12-16 at 16:41:10
QUOTE(CheatEnabled @ Dec 16 2006, 04:12 PM)
WC3 has DotA, and nothing else. Look at battle.net for WC3, and see if you can find an RPG. The closest thing you get is DotA. A defence. Dota. Dota, DotA, Dota. There's DotA all over. I'm not saying DotA is bad, it's actually a really great map, and IceFrog must be a genius to come up wit the idea, but DotA fills up the space on WC3. There are no room for other maps. On Starcraft, however, there are various maps around at all times.
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Tru.dat.
Also: Why do people still play Tetris if it's from the 80s...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by dumbducky on 2006-12-16 at 16:52:20
Because it's the best game on my calculator 
Here's why I don't use the WC3 editor: I don't have WC3.
Here's why I don't use the WC3 editor: I don't have WC3.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by spinesheath on 2006-12-16 at 17:34:58
QUOTE(CaptainCrunch @ Dec 16 2006, 05:52 PM)
Here's why I don't use the WC3 editor: I don't have WC3.
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2nd that.
Playing tons of SNES games as well. Better than most of the totally graphics-focused games that are out today. Really, in all that development made in the game industry, they left the fun behind...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Xx.Doom.xX on 2006-12-16 at 19:38:17
Cheesus,
If you don't like StarCraft, then why post? Why even come and register on this site?
I have WC3 but only play it sometimes, mostly DotA.
If you don't like StarCraft, then why post? Why even come and register on this site?
I have WC3 but only play it sometimes, mostly DotA.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-12-17 at 00:56:50
Can you mass over a thousand units in a crazy melee on your screen at once in Warcraft III? No.
Case closed, as far as I'm concerned. I playWC3 DotA, but sometime you just can't beat Starcraft.
Case closed, as far as I'm concerned. I play
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kookster on 2006-12-17 at 03:34:14
I play starcraft, cause I like futuristic stuff. I also hate the un realistic look of warcraft 3's animation it looks to cartoon like. I totally dislike the total dependance on heroes in Warcraft 3. if you dont have a hero you lose basicly. I dont believe any game should depend on a specific unit no matter what. And last starcraft is just Old school!!!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodle77(MM) on 2006-12-17 at 08:26:59
Because of the badly-writtenness of the WC3 engine, it cant handle anywhere near the 1700 units that SC can.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2006-12-17 at 09:11:23
My reasons:
StarCraft is sci-fi, which I prefer over fantasy.
I dislike how WarCraft is played, as kookster said, the dependence on heroes annoys me.
When I started playing SC, I didn't have a very powerful system, so WC3 lagged a lot. Now I have a more powerful computer, but I've already gotten into SC.
The community here is awesome.
Modding is fun. I haven't seen too much modding for WC3.
Pick anything from WC3 that you find so great, and I bet you I could replicate it with modding.
StarCraft is sci-fi, which I prefer over fantasy.
I dislike how WarCraft is played, as kookster said, the dependence on heroes annoys me.
When I started playing SC, I didn't have a very powerful system, so WC3 lagged a lot. Now I have a more powerful computer, but I've already gotten into SC.
The community here is awesome.
Modding is fun. I haven't seen too much modding for WC3.
Pick anything from WC3 that you find so great, and I bet you I could replicate it with modding.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by fatimid08 on 2006-12-17 at 10:24:25
It's because Starcraft has so many possibilities than Blizzard NEVER intended us users to use. This is what makes it special, and also adds some fun. I also don't like the Diablo/Warcraft concept combination (Heroes and armies) of WC3. And I don't have the game either.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-12-17 at 12:05:17
QUOTE(Voyager7456(MM) @ Dec 17 2006, 10:11 AM)
My reasons:
StarCraft is sci-fi, which I prefer over fantasy.
I dislike how WarCraft is played, as kookster said, the dependence on heroes annoys me.
When I started playing SC, I didn't have a very powerful system, so WC3 lagged a lot. Now I have a more powerful computer, but I've already gotten into SC.
The community here is awesome.
Modding is fun. I haven't seen too much modding for WC3.
Pick anything from WC3 that you find so great, and I bet you I could replicate it with modding.
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StarCraft is sci-fi, which I prefer over fantasy.
I dislike how WarCraft is played, as kookster said, the dependence on heroes annoys me.
When I started playing SC, I didn't have a very powerful system, so WC3 lagged a lot. Now I have a more powerful computer, but I've already gotten into SC.
The community here is awesome.
Modding is fun. I haven't seen too much modding for WC3.
Pick anything from WC3 that you find so great, and I bet you I could replicate it with modding.
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Yes, yes, yes, yes, and YES. I wouldn't want to learn 3d modeling just to mod WarCraft :/
QUOTE(fatimid08 @ Dec 17 2006, 11:24 AM)
It's because Starcraft has so many possibilities than Blizzard NEVER intended us users to use.
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I love this argument. Blizzard, upon making StarCraft, probably never imagined the sort of maps we've made. Look at Rush! Who would've thought that such a weak engine could handle such an intense map.
Plus, extended terrain is only available in StarCraft
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cheesus on 2006-12-18 at 13:06:35
QUOTE(Frenzy @ Dec 16 2006, 07:38 PM)
Cheesus,
If you don't like StarCraft, then why post? Why even come and register on this site?
I have WC3 but only play it sometimes, mostly DotA.
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If you don't like StarCraft, then why post? Why even come and register on this site?
I have WC3 but only play it sometimes, mostly DotA.
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No, I'm not saying I dislike Starcraft. It's a great game, I just don't understand the entire advanced editing stuff. Sure, SC can render 1700 units at the same time, but that is only used in noob mass games anyway; For stuff like madness, massing and the like, SC is good, but the triggers only allow the user to do so much.
I'm not judgeing it by its release date, but Blizzard could only use the limited recourses that where availible at that time, which wasn't much. I've been playing SC for almost 7 years, and at the time the game was amazing, but it just dosn't live up to the editing standards set by other programs like WC3.
I admit wc3 totally sucks as a melee game, and the campaign is horrible, the fantasy theme is really annoying, and the hero system is bad, but you can import models like Wraiths into it- and sound, images, all that stuff- things you can't do in SC. The campaign editor just has possibilities that SC dosn't.
The community in WC isn't great, but neither is Starcraft's community; both have annoying 9 year olds spamming the chat with "UR GAY".
As for modding, modding is a huge expansion of SC, but the fact that you can't play mods on Battle.net ruins it.
DoTA is one of the only good maps on WC3 b.net, but it's just becuase people haven't taken advantage of the editor yet; they just make stupid games like Uther Party; but until somebody makes a fully-functional DoTA map for Starcraft, World Editor stands as the better editor in my mind.
-Cheesus
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lord_Agamemnon(MM) on 2006-12-18 at 13:35:49
You can't play mods on Bnet? Sure you can, as long as the other person also has the mod. [MM] hosts Mod Night every Friday, and with the new exe editor for 1.14, we can play on USEast in our own mod channel.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-12-18 at 19:42:46
QUOTE
but that is only used in noob mass games anyway
Sometimes it's 1AM, you're really tired, and that's all you want to play. Sort of like DotA -wtf mode is for.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)Dungeon-Master on 2007-01-06 at 22:57:56
OMG HES A GAME RACIST! 
No, seriously, its stupid to come here and say that you think that stareditor is not good... the thing you all forgot to say is that ppl take years to download WCIII maps with models... yea, dl of maps with sounds is long on starcraft, but you are still in teh pre-game lobby when dling, not like WC that you just have to sit and hope that ppl will think to "press any key to continue"
No, seriously, its stupid to come here and say that you think that stareditor is not good... the thing you all forgot to say is that ppl take years to download WCIII maps with models... yea, dl of maps with sounds is long on starcraft, but you are still in teh pre-game lobby when dling, not like WC that you just have to sit and hope that ppl will think to "press any key to continue"
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Laser_Dude on 2007-01-21 at 14:24:28
There aren't any lasers in WC!!!
But then again, the only realistic laser in SC is the ghosts laser.
But then again, the only realistic laser in SC is the ghosts laser.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by NerdyTerdy on 2007-01-21 at 14:29:27
What is with this pointless grave-digging?
On-topic: I use StarCraft because it's a game I feel comfortable in. I know all the commands by heart and instinct. No situation in StarCraft ever confuses me. That is probably the main reason I still play SC.
On-topic: I use StarCraft because it's a game I feel comfortable in. I know all the commands by heart and instinct. No situation in StarCraft ever confuses me. That is probably the main reason I still play SC.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Moogle on 2007-01-21 at 15:46:51
Cheesus isn't saying Starcraft itself is a bad game, he enjoys much as we do. He saying the editor itself is to basic for him. Maybe so, The Editor might be nothing compared to warcraft III editor but starcraft editor has it own strong points and weak points. WC3 isnt really much of a editor more a wc3 mod editor with its own coding. Yes you can do more with it but it isnt enjoyable to make maps on it as is sc editor. Some people can't use the editor because runs too slow on there system, does use alot of resources to run it. I've used wc3 editor and know the basic on how to create a map and i didnt like it one bit why im sticking to sc editor till sc2 comes. But meh, Everyone has dislikes n likes about SC, i guess your's is that editor isnt powerful enough for you.