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Staredit Network -> UMS Assistance -> how to make comps attack wall?...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegitXeris on 2004-12-02 at 22:49:38
I cannot make comps attack my walls.....ghosts at top of liedge shooting ultra/lings so they try to find some way to attack ghosts but they cannot because the wall is blocking. How ironic I know starcraft units are stupid but is there anyway to make comps attack the supply depot or machine shop?? i think my last resort is to make the wall a sunken....

The worst thing is that.... if i use a sunken... i cannot repair it. turret doesn't work either because it does not attack land... rather use a wall (machine shop) than sunken
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2004-12-02 at 23:16:34
QUOTE(LegitXeris @ Dec 2 2004, 07:49 PM)
I cannot make comps attack my walls.....ghosts at top of liedge shooting ultra/lings so they try to find some way to attack ghosts but they cannot because the wall is blocking.  How ironic I know starcraft units are stupid but is there anyway to make comps attack the supply depot or machine shop??  i think my last resort is to make the wall a sunken....

The worst thing is that.... if i use a sunken... i cannot repair it.  turret doesn't work either because it does not attack land... rather use a wall (machine shop) than sunken
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most of the time machine shops are considered neutral unless they are connected to the terran factory. so, I recommend attaching a factory to a machine shop. I think this will solve your problem. If it doesn't, it would really help me if you posted a picture of the area, or better yet, post the map.

EDIT: Spell check.
EDIT (again...): You could make the comp allie with the ghosts and un allie with whoever has the machine shops. Then, when the machine shops are destroyed, you could unallie comp with the ghosts so the ultras/lings will attack the ghosts. Also, lings are small enough that they can go between 2 sunkens (unless the sunkens are preplaced/stacked in the game.

I hope this helps
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Red2Blue on 2004-12-02 at 23:24:26
Okay, firstly I would like to thank you for bringing up this GREAT topic...

firstly, there IS NO WAY you can make a computer attack a wall unit (supply, building, etc.), even under the AI Script "Random/Strategic Suicide Missions", using only 2 players...

You, have just learned a rule about priorities...

in sc there are 2 kinds of priority,
Trigger Priority (doesn't concern this topic)
and
Unit Priority (concerns this topic)





Unit Priorities:
----------------

What the heck is a unit priority?
Well in Melee it has great strategic benefits....
firstly the definition:

Unit priority is sorta like a "to do list", starcraft programmers have decided to incorporate "brains" inside of units and allow for them to choose what unit has more priority (or first on the list) to attack..

so say you had 2 units, an SCV and a Marine and your opponent had a Hydralisk, if you were to attack the Hydralisk with your SCV, the SCV gains priority, and is attacked back from the Hydralisk... but if another unit with higher priority attacks the Hydralisk, the Hydralisk would instantly switch over to the Marine, allowing for your SCV to live... after this, the Hydralisk would attempt to kill the unit with current priority, and will not shift over to the other unit...

This example happens in your map,
the Zergling, sees the wall, and attacks it, because the building is first on its priority, or the first thing it sees, while attacking the wall, if it encounters another unit that has higher priority and it becomes attacked by it, it would switch over to the atackee... the priority also occurs if it "sees" the unit, or the unit walks within its "Seeing Range"... also noting that: "Vision Range", and "Seeing Range" are two differnt things, Vision refers to how much of "the fog of war" is displaced or uncovered when the unit walks around on the map, the "Seeing Range" refers to the units interaction with other units and enemy units.,. Anyways, the Zergling is then shot from a Ghost on a ledge, the instant the Zergling is hit, the building no longer has priority, and will switch over to the Ghost...

think of it like this... you have a fire extinguisher, a small fire bursts out on your table, so you try to put it out, then your clothes catch fire, what are you gonna put out first? your table? or your clothes? obviously you'd friggin aim that extinguisher at your clothes... but you forget that the extinguisher is made out of CO2 gas which consumes air, and you die...

thats what happens to the ling, it sees the building, then sees a ghost, and dies trying to do the right thing... (poor poor ling...)

(This is the reason why, Noobie terran people always wall the fronts of their bases, in attempts to stop zealot rushes.... -.- when will they learn that, 4 firebats in a bunker/w SCV reparing is enough to kill off any early zealot rush... so this is a melee tip really quick... an academy costs 150 minerals/refinery costs 100 minerals, firebats cost 200minerals/100gas, bunker costs 100 totaling 550 minerals and 100 gas, a wall costs 600+ minerals... id rather have those firebats...)

Priority also is shifted when units have lower life then other units... taken for example, your Overlord with 20Hp and your Overlord with 100Hp passing over an enemy Turret... the enemy turret would instantly target the weakest unit and attack it.


As a note, any unit that can attack another unit, has higher priority then a unit who cannot attack it... I.E. a Mutalisk has more priority then an Overlord...





Sorry if this doesn't come any help to you...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by EzDay281 on 2004-12-02 at 23:39:29
Actualy, there are ways to do this.
HAve a trigger so that once a part of the wall is destroyed, or however much, than it makes the people attacking the wall unally the Ghosts...

As in...
Ghosts=P1
Wall=P2
Zerglings=P3

Start: P3 = Unallied with P2, Allied with P1
P2 = Doesn't matter...
P1 = Unallied with P3, Allied with P2

P3 has atleast 1 kill of "Wall", set P1 to Enemy
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Red2Blue on 2004-12-02 at 23:48:43
Thats a little bit obvious...
and that way works but...
you now have to deal with an additional player slot...

(and I said theres NO WAY TO DO it, for 2 players...)

XD
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegitXeris on 2004-12-03 at 00:03:39
wow hey,

that is very smart however.....

i have units that climb up ladder to top of wall... so if wall is not broken by that time, ling would still be allied to ghosts while it is at top of wall. i guess i would have to use cannons as walls but..... ling would be able to go through anyway to prevent this ? hmm but this is a computer, it should attack the first cannon that threatens it or would it go through cannon and attack ghosts on other side.... well i'll test it out.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Red2Blue on 2004-12-03 at 00:07:37
The lings will attack the cannon first, if it is being attacked by it... otherwise, it will ignore it... and move on to the problem again...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Dalinte on 2004-12-03 at 05:30:16
QUOTE(Red2Blue @ Dec 2 2004, 11:24 PM)
Okay, firstly I would like to thank you for bringing up this GREAT topic...

firstly, there IS NO WAY you can make a computer attack a wall unit (supply, building, etc.), even under the AI Script "Random/Strategic Suicide Missions", using only 2 players...

You, have just learned a rule about priorities...

in sc there are 2 kinds of priority,
Trigger Priority (doesn't concern this topic)
and
Unit Priority (concerns this topic)
Unit Priorities:
----------------

What the heck is a unit priority?
Well in Melee it has great strategic benefits....
firstly the definition:

Unit priority is sorta like a "to do list", starcraft programmers have decided to incorporate "brains" inside of units and allow for them to choose what unit has more priority (or first on the list) to attack.. 

so say you had 2 units, an SCV and a Marine and your opponent had a Hydralisk,  if you were to attack the Hydralisk with your SCV, the SCV gains priority, and is attacked back from the Hydralisk... but if another unit with higher priority attacks the Hydralisk, the Hydralisk would instantly switch over to the Marine, allowing for your SCV to live... after this, the Hydralisk would attempt to kill the unit with current priority, and will not shift over to the other unit...

This example happens in your map,
the Zergling, sees the wall, and attacks it, because the building is first on its priority, or the first thing it sees, while attacking the wall, if it encounters another unit that has higher priority and it becomes attacked by it, it would switch over to the atackee... the priority also occurs if it "sees" the unit, or the unit walks within its "Seeing Range"... also noting that:   "Vision Range", and "Seeing Range" are two differnt things,  Vision refers to how much of "the fog of war" is displaced or uncovered when the unit walks around on the map, the "Seeing Range" refers to the units interaction with other units and enemy units.,. Anyways, the Zergling is then shot from a Ghost on a ledge, the instant the Zergling is hit, the building no longer has priority, and will switch over to the Ghost... 

think of it like this... you have a fire extinguisher, a small fire bursts out on your table, so you try to put it out, then your clothes catch fire, what are you gonna put out first? your table? or your clothes?  obviously you'd friggin aim that extinguisher at your clothes... but you forget that the extinguisher is made out of CO2 gas which consumes air, and you die...

thats what happens to the ling,  it sees the building, then sees a ghost, and dies trying to do the right thing... (poor poor ling...)

(This is the reason why, Noobie terran people always wall the fronts of their bases, in attempts to stop zealot rushes....  -.-      when will they learn that, 4 firebats in a bunker/w SCV reparing is enough to kill off any early zealot rush... so this is a melee tip really quick... an academy costs 150 minerals/refinery costs 100 minerals, firebats cost 200minerals/100gas, bunker costs 100 totaling 550 minerals and 100 gas, a wall costs 600+ minerals... id rather have those firebats...)

Priority also is shifted when units have lower life then other units... taken for example, your Overlord with 20Hp and your Overlord with 100Hp passing over an enemy Turret... the enemy turret would instantly target the weakest unit and attack it.
As a note, any unit that can attack another unit, has higher priority then a unit who cannot attack it... I.E. a Mutalisk has more priority then an Overlord...
Sorry if this doesn't come any help to you...
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Well lets get to the solution, create a location over the wall. Then set this trigger in your map...


Trigger
Description:
Attack AI Script
Players:
¤ Player 2 (or attacking force)
Conditions:
¤ Non-allied victory player Brings at least 1 Building to Location 'Wall'
Actions:
¤ Order all Men owned by Player 2 at Location 'Wall' to Attack to Location 'Wall'
¤ Preserve trigger


some will still get confused, but since there is no wait on the trigger they will snap out of it very quickly. Unless your dealing with 100's of ghosts and marines this should solve the problem. otherwise use hyper triggers along with this one to speed up even those ai priorities.

on an unrelated topic. Turrets don't target the lowest hp air unit. They have a priority to target the first unit they see. I use that to my advantage when doing drop attacks on players multiple times leading with a different air transport each time.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by KaboomHahahein on 2004-12-03 at 08:38:18
Or if it does not matter. You can make the ghosts invincible, so then when the ghosts shoot them your ultralisks and zerglings will ignore them.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Coop on 2004-12-03 at 15:06:01
QUOTE
(This is the reason why, Noobie terran people always wall the fronts of their bases, in attempts to stop zealot rushes.... -.- when will they learn that, 4 firebats in a bunker/w SCV reparing is enough to kill off any early zealot rush... so this is a melee tip really quick... an academy costs 150 minerals/refinery costs 100 minerals, firebats cost 200minerals/100gas, bunker costs 100 totaling 550 minerals and 100 gas, a wall costs 600+ minerals... id rather have those firebats...)


The wall in the front of the base really doesnt cost 600+ minerals because you need those buildings anyway.. Building firebats just makes the tech for the Terran player much slower when a wall is just fine for stopping zeal rushes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2004-12-03 at 16:56:50
If you want to make the attackers attack the wall before the units, As you need to destroy the wall as a prerequisite to killing the units do this:

Put the units as invincible.
When the tiniest gap in the wall is opened so that untis can pour through and attack each other in melee then make the other units vincible again.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Drakiel on 2004-12-03 at 18:55:51
Don't laugh at me for suggesting this, as it may or may not work, I'm too lazy to test it now. But have you tried "order: patrol" to location? instead of "attack" to location?

Order: Patrol to location
That MIGHT work, I know about unit priorities and all, but... try it at LEAST.
Won't take more than 15 seconds to impliment and test.

ADDITION: I lied, Patrol doesn't work. Got off my butt and tested it...
(With patrol, however, comps are usually more responsive to unally players)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2004-12-03 at 18:59:57
QUOTE(BeeR_KeG[eM] @ Dec 3 2004, 01:56 PM)
If you want to make the attackers attack the wall before the units, As you need to destroy the wall as a prerequisite to killing the units do this:

Put the units as invincible.
When the tiniest gap in the wall is opened so that untis can pour through and attack each other in melee then make the other units vincible again.
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I think this is the best idea so far. Also, I think the buildings should be placed in such a way that the buildings overlap each other just a little bit. (You can use sc xtra "special" mode for this.)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2004-12-03 at 21:39:00
How about tanks stuck in seige mode?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2004-12-04 at 06:19:23
QUOTE(Kow @ Dec 3 2004, 06:39 PM)
How about tanks stuck in seige mode?
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then the splash damage from a tank will kill one or more ghosts
Report, edit, etc...Posted by sckor on 2004-12-04 at 23:52:06
I think the invincibility idea is good.

Trigger
Description:
Set invincibility
Players:
¤ enemy
Conditions:
¤ always
¤ -or-
¤ brings atleast one men to ' a location just in front of the wall'
Actions:
¤ set invincibility or whatever



Trigger
Description:
disable invincibility
Players:
¤ ghost owner
Conditions:
¤ enemy kills atleast one 'wall'
Actions:
¤ disable invincibility trigger


ha.. hope that helps
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