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Im making a golem map and have come to that point where i must input stats like hp, shield, armor, damage etc for each terran, zerg and protoss golems which will fight each other. But how can i make it fair for all races so that zerg wont take out terran or protoss even if both teams has the same number og attackers? So that it will be a 50/50 fight, or like zerg can take out terran, terran protoss and protoss zerg. Or anything like that. And which upgrades should I include?

Ok, this is the units i uses:

Terran
lvl1 Firebat, lvl2 Gui Montag (firebat), lvl3 Sarah Kerrigan (firebat)

Zerg
lvl1 Zergling, lvl2 Devouring One (zergling), lvl3 Hunter Killer (Hydralisk)

Protoss
lvl1 Zealot, lvl2 Fenix (Zealot), lvl3 Dragoon


Thanks!

well norvegia,

golems, i assume you are making a mass attack game.

zergling and zealot would be easy to balance, just guess a hit point and attack for ling and zealot and test it out on map, make sure they are very equal.
Try something like this

Zergling
175 HP
4 Melee (Upgraded speed/attack)
0 Armor

Zealot
105 Shield
105 HP
8(Dmg Per Hand, total is 16)
0 armor

Now test this out, then whoever wins, subtract that amount of life and it will be balanced. Now for firebat.... that is very very difficult because.... firebat has splash affect that would hit multiple enemies at a time. If you only use 3 units for this map, I don't think firebat can be perfectly balanced.

My Recommendation is don't use zergling only avalilable for player 1, zealot only for player 2, etc. If you want an interesting and fun game, use more units. Let the players choose any unit at any time, not just zergling the entire game or firebat the entire game.

If i make a golem map, I wouldn't try to get a balance. I would rather make something like this where one unit gets advantage over another

Each player can choose whatever unit he wants to get (Fair for Everybody)
hydra beats ultralisk
ultralisk beats zergling
zergling beats hydra

upgrades well you should set a cost for upgrades and factor it for example
melee upgrade 100, factor 25 (+1)
carapace upgrade

protoss weapons 100, factor 25 (+2)
armor, shield 200, factor 50 (this greatly affects zergling attack so more expen)

Make sure you put zealot speed and zergling attack/speed and firebat stims/range
or you can remove range for firebat/marine.

this is just something out of the blue, test it out and rearrange it to your style

something like that would be more interesting. and be sure to add defilers, storm, magic to spice up your game. since your map is very simple and small, consider adding wave files to make your map more unique

Oh and sarah kerrigan is not a firebat, she is a ghost, or you could use infested kerrigan but she walks slow and attacks with a whip (no splash)

LegitXeris

Ok, thanks alot! I'l try that =)

Also, use the damage calculator to balance the units. If you want
http://www.geocities.com/brattsunami/calculator.html

I would suggest not to make the untis 100% balanced. Make it so that every unit has a strong and weak counter part.
That way you get to have more strategy in the game.

If you do what Beer said though, you'd want to use the concussive and explosive and normal and size and stuff to give them the weaknesses to each other. This can be a bit hard to do, but if you have the time to test it, it'll work very well.

Don't forget to balance the kills score for the units. It tends to be one of the most unballanced things in mass maps.

Let me put that in context, which could take some text.
Your making a golems map which if it's like the outher golems maps uses score to determan how well your doing, and how strong your forces should be.

Say you have the level three basic units as Goon, H-hydra, and K-ghost.
And have ballanced it so the zell kills the bat, due to higher armor, the ling kills the zell, and the bat kills the ling.
now players will get 700 points for each K-ghost killed. But the goon and the H-lisk will give 500 points each. which makes ghosts worth a bit much.
here are the kill scores unit tree as you have set them up.

Zealot - 200 Firebat - 200 Zergling - 50
HZeal - 400 HFirebat - 400 HZergling - 100
Dragoon - 500 HGhostK - 700 HHydralisk - 500

the bat and zell are fairly well ballanced, but the zergling gives only one quarter the points
so to ballance it you'd have to make the unit zerglings counter still kill atleast two zerglings
for every one of it's units killed, that's not going to work well, unless you spawn more zerglings
then the outhers, which could work. and that's just level one.

I'm including a copy of the points list as a text file.
It's a custom one made by Chuiu
but I'm shure there are better ones out there

Oh, and good luck with your map, I'd LOVE to play a well ballanced golems map some day. I'd be happy to play a mostly ballanced golems map even.
Just do me a favor, Put a list of heros in the zip with the map and give some stats.
Thanks

Hmm, you got a good point there. But I dont like to use points, I prefer kills, since its easier to have control over other people kills and stuff then. But I can add like a ghost is 3 kills for example and hydra is 2. Something like you said. And yes, I will post the map here when ready, but it will take a while, since I dont spend so much time making it. But i make one bit at a time so there is some progress =) Im so tired of all the other golem maps, since they are so unbalanced. But I will try to add a little more strategy in the map.

I highly doubt that this assumption is true, since you can't do it that way. You can never subtract kills, so if you have a trigger "Player 1 Kills 1 Zergling Give 2 points" it will give them 2 points forever. Golems maps generally have had hundreds of triggers in them for every 50 kills to give the player a civilian.

Norvegia I suggest using points, that way you'll be able to finish the map much quicker, and without needing a trigger for each event.* If you use a trigger like this one.¥ that would let you balance how many points each golem (hero or basic) is worth, towards getting a new golem, Thus the easy to use ones could be worth more towards a new golem, and the harder to use ones worth less. just my 2¢





*event, An action wich is based on kills. Like spawning a golem point, or upgrading the unit type. Although upgrading the base unit type would be better done with kills, or even deaths.☼

☼as in player suffers X deaths of zealot, spawn upgraded zealot Instead.

¥A good Idea, but the triger wont work.

Edited becuse I cant think before my caffine, for spelling, and for rudeness.

Confusing?


And you cannot detect who caused the death of a unit because you cannot subtract kills.

beh, your right. I dont know what I was thinking.

Oh for a 'Set kills' trigger it would make Custom points for units so workable. perhaps someone who knows how sould petition Blizzard for shuch a trigger? I'd do it but I dont know how. I'll be editing my previus post for foolishness now.

hmm, but when if I use scores, one kill for example a medic is 250 points. Can i change this so that one kill of a normal unit like lvl1 zergling will count as 1 point?

You can't change how much points you get for killing a unit unless you use a modified version of starcraft. I think you can, however, make a trigger that would subtract points after you kill a unit.

Yeah, that sound logical. I will try that

ADDITION: "I think you can, however, make a trigger that would subtract points after you kill a unit."

That one didn'n work. I tried but nothing happened. The score after killing a medic was still 250. But I will try using score with normal points after all, just have to edit a hell lot of triggers

ADDITION: Im having another problem now. When someone gets their base destroyd I made a trigger that will kill any other units/buildings that remains on the map like golem parts (choosers) for the player. But when someone leaves the game, their base and units remains. How can i make a trigger that will kill all the units for the leaving player?

when a player leaves his units are given to player 12, so you'd need a trigger to kill all units owned by player 12 if that player ever controlls any units. I beleve starforge can make triggers effect player 12.

you can do that, it's just if you use any "neutral" units than player 111 should be used (in my opinion). Here is the trigger (in sc xtra form):

Trigger

Description:

yay! this player that leaves during the game will loss all of his/her units!

Conditions:

¤ player 12 brings at least 1 any unit

Actions:

¤ remove/kill all any unit

¤ presever trigger

EDIT: You also have to place a start location for this player to run triggers (correct?)

Hmm, what about this one? Will work, right?

Trigger

Players:

¤ Player 12

Conditions:

¤ Player 12 commands at least 1 any unit.

Actions:

¤ Kill all any unit for Player 12.

¤ Preserve trigger.

Ya, it will work. It is almost the same as my trigger but you said it with different words. That is alright. By default, however, any neutral unit you place using sc xtra is for player 12. In other words, any unit you neutral units you place using sc xtra will be removed/killed by this trigger, so I recommend you place your neutral units for player 9, 10, or 11.

No triggers do not function for any players except 1-8.

The problem isn't the actions and conditions. You said to give the trigger to a player who cannot run triggers.