Report, edit, etc...Posted by concienne on 2004-12-11 at 08:29:25
i am currently running v1.11b, as most are with starcraft, and i am trying to stack the minerals... i use starforge 2 mostly, i stack 50 mins at each base, but when i get into the game, 2 of the locations seem to not mine the stack as if only one mineral patch is there... ive tried scmdraft, and extra also.. i beleive the minerals are there because if i open the map in normal editor modes, it says 300 or so units are improperly placed, and have been deleted but nothing else changes... i have tried to place all mins on map, then place them to the exact coordinates, i have tried cloning, i even tried stacking more types of mineral stacks on top of others.. nothing seems to work.. all units are given to player 12, the number of units for map is set to 9999, and mostly i believe the options are correct for the purpose at hand.. so why do some of the mineral patches seem to be correct but not others?? also it is a problem with all the maps i try to create like this.... is there something im missing, like a unit property, or a specific way stacking has to be done??
i dont believe that it is starforges fault because like i said i tried the same techniques with the other editors and i just cant seem to get it right....
p.s... i stress the fact that some stacks are stacked correctly and work properly!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .Coko[CK] on 2004-12-11 at 10:07:35
First of all the stacks should be placed for Player 12,
They can only be viewed in StarForge and SCMDraft 2, any other editor will remove them.
Either place them slighty off each other, by a tiny amount using the grid system on a tiny difference.
They can only be viewed in StarForge and SCMDraft 2, any other editor will remove them.
Either place them slighty off each other, by a tiny amount using the grid system on a tiny difference.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by concienne on 2004-12-11 at 10:38:48
first of all, i said they were set to player twelve..
second of all, they dont have to be placed ANY amount offset from each other, look at all the money maps not made by n00bs.. they can be stacked DIRECTLY on top each other... not to mention i did say that 4 out of 6 stacks work properly..
thirdly, i realize the units will be deleted if opened in another program, i was using that as a reference to find out if the mineral patches were all accounted for, which they were...(there are 60 vesp. geysers + 6 start locations + 306 mineral patches = 372 units... 300 of which get deleted when opened in normal map editors..
fourthly, my problem isnt that i cant stack minerals, my problem is that they get deleted or something during gameplay... it looks as if there is a stack there, but they cannot be mined, although all stacks are identical and properly spaced from other units, a couple of patches do not stay stacked in the game, because only one miner seems to mine at a time......
second of all, they dont have to be placed ANY amount offset from each other, look at all the money maps not made by n00bs.. they can be stacked DIRECTLY on top each other... not to mention i did say that 4 out of 6 stacks work properly..
thirdly, i realize the units will be deleted if opened in another program, i was using that as a reference to find out if the mineral patches were all accounted for, which they were...(there are 60 vesp. geysers + 6 start locations + 306 mineral patches = 372 units... 300 of which get deleted when opened in normal map editors..
fourthly, my problem isnt that i cant stack minerals, my problem is that they get deleted or something during gameplay... it looks as if there is a stack there, but they cannot be mined, although all stacks are identical and properly spaced from other units, a couple of patches do not stay stacked in the game, because only one miner seems to mine at a time......
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2004-12-11 at 10:42:19
Make sure they don't go clashing into the start location. If they are too close, they will become deleted. The offset is for the start location. I think it should be 16 pixels up or 16 down.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by concienne on 2004-12-11 at 11:12:19
ok, well like i said, they are all DIRECTLY on top of each other, and the spacing is fine, i know because there is still a mineral patch that has a black shadow under it (not just shaded like there would be if there was only one patch there) during the game...
also i just talked to someone that says all my miners should be able to mine ONE single patch at the same time, but i dont think that is true, i am gonna test his theory though and not stack any... and he also said if there are too many stacked only 2 miners will mine it.... but i dont believe that either... but i will test this theory and see, but somehow i doubt it will let all miners mine one patch if they arent stacked.....
also i just talked to someone that says all my miners should be able to mine ONE single patch at the same time, but i dont think that is true, i am gonna test his theory though and not stack any... and he also said if there are too many stacked only 2 miners will mine it.... but i dont believe that either... but i will test this theory and see, but somehow i doubt it will let all miners mine one patch if they arent stacked.....
Report, edit, etc...Posted by KaboomHahahein on 2004-12-11 at 11:25:11
Each peon unit (worker people) can mine 1 mineral patch at a time. Not 2 can mine the same one at a time. Because you stacked them right ontop of each other the miners can all mine in it. Your friend probably did not know they were stacked.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2004-12-11 at 11:29:35
If you stack minerals using scmdraft 2 or starforge, you can mine from them. For example, if you stack 50 mineral patches in one spot, 50 workers will be able to harvest minerals from those mineral patches. In scmdraft 2, you have to click on one spot (without moving your mouse), say, 50 times and then you will be able to use 50 workers to harvest those mineral fields. In starforge, place one mineral field, select it, right click on it, and then click on "stack". A box will pop up asking you how many units you want stacked in this location. If you type "50" and then press enter, you can have up to 50 workers harvesting from this mineral patch. You have make sure you are placing the mineral patches for player 12. (Yes, I know you have placed the minerals for player 12...) For some reason starforge's grid is differant than scmdraft 2's grid. In which case, if you place a start location for a human player in scmdraft 2 and then place a 50 minerals near this location, there is a 50% chance you won't be able to use this player (in any mode other than UMS). I think (although I am not sure at the moment,) that any mineral patches or gas patches that are placed on invalid terrian won't be able to be harvested from. In other words, if you place a mineral patch on water, chances are good you won't be able to havest from this mineral patch.
As for 2 or more workers harvesting from the same mineral patch, as far as I know of this isn't possible. It is possible to make one worker harvest from a single patch of minerals while one or more workers wait their turn to harvest from it.
EDIT: Also, I prefer to place minerals, gas vents, and start locations in scmdraft 2 and then use starforge to stack the minerals.
EDIT: "We have tutorials for everything!" *Yay! I get to steal LegacyWeapon line!
(I always wanted to do that... 
)
As for 2 or more workers harvesting from the same mineral patch, as far as I know of this isn't possible. It is possible to make one worker harvest from a single patch of minerals while one or more workers wait their turn to harvest from it.
EDIT: Also, I prefer to place minerals, gas vents, and start locations in scmdraft 2 and then use starforge to stack the minerals.
EDIT: "We have tutorials for everything!" *Yay! I get to steal LegacyWeapon line!
(I always wanted to do that... )Report, edit, etc...Posted by concienne on 2004-12-11 at 11:36:16
ok, i tried the one patch theory, and no like kaboom said, and i thought, no more than one miner can mine one patch at a time....
so ok, little more info i found out, i also made a 192x192 map like zeroclutter, same technique for stacking, and no base has a problem having miners mine the 50 stack of patches... the only differences in the maps is that the one with problems is micro 64x64, and the working one is 192x192.... also the 192x192 is not finished because it has no vespene yet..
but to my knowledge, if a max unit per map is say 9999, then having 300 min patches, 60 vesp., and 6 start locations, should not make a difference in having minerals be deleted be deleted.. but in that same case, of the max number of units was 200, then 166 of 366 would be deleted.... am i wrong?
so ok, little more info i found out, i also made a 192x192 map like zeroclutter, same technique for stacking, and no base has a problem having miners mine the 50 stack of patches... the only differences in the maps is that the one with problems is micro 64x64, and the working one is 192x192.... also the 192x192 is not finished because it has no vespene yet..
but to my knowledge, if a max unit per map is say 9999, then having 300 min patches, 60 vesp., and 6 start locations, should not make a difference in having minerals be deleted be deleted.. but in that same case, of the max number of units was 200, then 166 of 366 would be deleted.... am i wrong?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2004-12-11 at 11:42:54
I have made my own melee map. In the map, there was at least 400 units - before the game begins. There was 50 mineral patches per player and 8 gas vents per player. I had the map set so up to 8 people can play at any given time. So, no, you can't be hitting the uniit limit. The unit limit (I think, I am not sure at the moment) is more than 1500 units.
If you stack minerals using a map editor and then try to harvest the minerals in starcraft, these units shouldn't be deleted.
Just in case you didn't look at the tutorial I posted in my last post... :
If you stack minerals using a map editor and then try to harvest the minerals in starcraft, these units shouldn't be deleted.
Just in case you didn't look at the tutorial I posted in my last post... :
QUOTE(http://www.staredit.net/index.php?act=tutorials&action=01&id=99&g=Design&title=Stacking%20Units)
Stacking Buildings as of version 1.11b can no longer be done in the game for Zerg Buildings. The units have to be pre-placed.
To stack minerals or buildings you need a special editor. I would suggest StarForge or SCM Draft 2.0
StarForge
-Place your unit.
-Select the unit and right click it. A short cut menu will appear, select "Stack…" from that.
-A little box will come up asking you how many to stack. (don’t go overboard) Just enter the amount and hit ok.
SCM Draft 2
-Go to the menu Options -> Units -> Allow Stack
-Also insure that "Buildings Snap to Grid" is checked in the same place.
-Then simply place the units. Click once for every one you want stacked. (If you select the units you can see how many there are stacked.
To stack minerals or buildings you need a special editor. I would suggest StarForge or SCM Draft 2.0
StarForge
-Place your unit.
-Select the unit and right click it. A short cut menu will appear, select "Stack…" from that.
-A little box will come up asking you how many to stack. (don’t go overboard) Just enter the amount and hit ok.
SCM Draft 2
-Go to the menu Options -> Units -> Allow Stack
-Also insure that "Buildings Snap to Grid" is checked in the same place.
-Then simply place the units. Click once for every one you want stacked. (If you select the units you can see how many there are stacked.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .Coko[CK] on 2004-12-11 at 11:48:25
Thats exactly what i posted first time and was attacked for, which rather annoyed me. Who knows what the problem is.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by concienne on 2004-12-11 at 11:49:38
ok so maybe one other difference is that i have a checkered theme at start location areas (for quick 2x2 spacing of pylons, etc.) on the 64x64.. however, i now tend to think that where the minerals are cant be checkered (high ground, low ground)... so i will try that, or i could move the location of minerals to another pixel or two to one side, but this brings up 2 factors:
1. the center point (of object) is either on one area or the other, not both simultaneously, because the grid does not allow that, so whether its on one area or the other (high ground or low ground), they are all at the same place, so all miners should mine them
2. 4 out of the 6 stacks are mined by more than one worker at the same time (up to 50 it should be)
1. the center point (of object) is either on one area or the other, not both simultaneously, because the grid does not allow that, so whether its on one area or the other (high ground or low ground), they are all at the same place, so all miners should mine them
2. 4 out of the 6 stacks are mined by more than one worker at the same time (up to 50 it should be)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .Coko[CK] on 2004-12-11 at 11:50:45
2.
You mean they each mine a separate piece themselves?
(else that'd be impossible)
so, likely its your terrain then.
You mean they each mine a separate piece themselves?
(else that'd be impossible)
so, likely its your terrain then.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by concienne on 2004-12-11 at 11:57:53
BTW: im sorry .coko, i didnt mean to offend u or piss u off... however i am a little adjetated about my d@mn maps functionality.... sorry if i came off that way...
and also about the placement: the pixel locations i set were not snapped to grid, but placed one pixel top, left, right, bottom, of where they needed to be.... to my surprise, they actually did line up exactly to grid on both scm and starforge...
and also about the placement: the pixel locations i set were not snapped to grid, but placed one pixel top, left, right, bottom, of where they needed to be.... to my surprise, they actually did line up exactly to grid on both scm and starforge...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2004-12-11 at 12:03:31
lol that is because any units that aren't placed on the grid before you open it in scmdraft 2 or starforge won't be changed so they are on the grid. As long as you have the place units according to the grid option enabled, any units placed in starforge or scmdraft 2 will be placed according to the grid.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by concienne on 2004-12-11 at 12:06:20
also.. i have read that tutorial b4 a couple times, sa.max71, lol... ive looked everywhere for answers.....
but again as stupid as it sounds to me, i do tend to think my terrain is messing up the stacks... but like i said, that doesnt make sense that out of 6 bases, 2 do not work as they should be stacked... even though all of them have the same terrain underneath........ hmmmmm
but again as stupid as it sounds to me, i do tend to think my terrain is messing up the stacks... but like i said, that doesnt make sense that out of 6 bases, 2 do not work as they should be stacked... even though all of them have the same terrain underneath........ hmmmmm
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2004-12-11 at 12:07:24
post the map, or better yet private messeage me the map, and I will take a look at it
Report, edit, etc...Posted by concienne on 2004-12-11 at 12:09:53
sa_max71: lol, yes i know that... i meant to say i went to OVERLAP mins and start locations that were there, and the overlaps(that are snapped to grid) were a match to my placement... 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2004-12-11 at 12:12:09
oh, that... that isn't possible to do with the player's first start location (unless you are using a modified version of starcraft... but that is a differant story.)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by concienne on 2004-12-11 at 12:21:15
when i overlapped them, it was only to see what the placement should be on a grid... i didnt actually click them to that spot, and so it didnt ACTUALLY get placed on the map... was only a reference for my eye..... 
also, i will send the map, only if after i change the terrain real quick it still doesnt work.... so i will let you know
ADDITION: one more thing, i heard somewhere that if u change the terrain beneath the unit, the unit will be deleted, like the stacks beneath the original, is that true?? will i need to redo the stacks if i change terrain beneath them, or will it not effect anything??
also, i will send the map, only if after i change the terrain real quick it still doesnt work.... so i will let you know
ADDITION: one more thing, i heard somewhere that if u change the terrain beneath the unit, the unit will be deleted, like the stacks beneath the original, is that true?? will i need to redo the stacks if i change terrain beneath them, or will it not effect anything??
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2004-12-11 at 12:25:59
It depends. If you using sc xtra or the regular campaign editor, then yes. If you use scmdraft 2 and you have the right featuers enabled, or you are using starforge, than no. For example, if you place a bunker on high ground and then place water where you had it in sc xtra (base mode), the bunker will disappear. In starforge, or sc extra (special mode) this won't happen.
EDIT: I have to go offline in a few minutes... I will be back online most likely in 45 minutes
EDIT: I have to go offline in a few minutes... I will be back online most likely in 45 minutes
Report, edit, etc...Posted by concienne on 2004-12-11 at 13:39:25
ok, well i will now try the terrain adjustment, and although u say i shouldnt have to redo the stacks, i will anyway just to make sure...
i will post the outcome when i know for sure whats up... and if you dont get it later, thank you guys for all ur help, and i appreciate it
ADDITION: The verdict is:
I WILL BE QOD-D@MNED.......... the terrain fix, well, fixed the problem!
i now have all miners mining the minerals....
dont get me wrong, i know that placement cant be on water or anything like that, but i didnt know that even if its touching uneven ground, that it wont stay stacked.. let that be a lesson to future people who make this mistake..
even though the original patch of minerals was still there, the stacks got deleted, or the miners just wouldnt mine it..
but that still doesnt explain why it only happened in two locations, even though placement was identical in each area.. these maps are 110% balanced (terrain and all), so go figure..
and i would also like to say that i love starforge2, i beleive it is a must have, and the best choice of editor, other than the bugs like when u place a unit, sometimes another unit gets deleted... its annoying to have to redo stuff over and over. or when u try to place a unit, it appears but isnt really on the map, because when u move the screen it gets deleted and isnt on the minimap.... i downloaded starforge2.2, but i went back to v2, because v2.2 kept spamming the save map box....
and thank you SA_MAX71, for throwing the terrain tip out there... like i said, since the mins were placed on VALID terrain, it never occured to me that touching another STYLE terrain would have that effect on it... thank you all, for all your help
i will post the outcome when i know for sure whats up... and if you dont get it later, thank you guys for all ur help, and i appreciate it
ADDITION: The verdict is:
I WILL BE QOD-D@MNED.......... the terrain fix, well, fixed the problem!
i now have all miners mining the minerals....
dont get me wrong, i know that placement cant be on water or anything like that, but i didnt know that even if its touching uneven ground, that it wont stay stacked.. let that be a lesson to future people who make this mistake..
even though the original patch of minerals was still there, the stacks got deleted, or the miners just wouldnt mine it..
but that still doesnt explain why it only happened in two locations, even though placement was identical in each area.. these maps are 110% balanced (terrain and all), so go figure..
and i would also like to say that i love starforge2, i beleive it is a must have, and the best choice of editor, other than the bugs like when u place a unit, sometimes another unit gets deleted... its annoying to have to redo stuff over and over. or when u try to place a unit, it appears but isnt really on the map, because when u move the screen it gets deleted and isnt on the minimap.... i downloaded starforge2.2, but i went back to v2, because v2.2 kept spamming the save map box....
and thank you SA_MAX71, for throwing the terrain tip out there... like i said, since the mins were placed on VALID terrain, it never occured to me that touching another STYLE terrain would have that effect on it... thank you all, for all your help
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SA_Max71 on 2004-12-11 at 13:48:09
lol yw