Staredit Network

You'll notice this is under garbage. I don't really feel like starting a big long discussion about this, there are just a few things I want to get off my chest. This was posted on another site first, but I thought hmm. I want to rant here too.

Caution: political (sort of) rant.


So I got a little angry at how many "OMG OMG BUSH SUCKS" posts there were on this site. Sure, I hate him too. But why do you hate him. Oh that's right. You can't think for yourselves. It appears that you have joined the "hey let's bash bush cause everyone else is doing it!" bandwagon. "especially since he can't speak correctly. harharhar! I don't even know his policies, but they must be evil!" We're all laughing now. I wonder what he would have said if we were still running away from terrorists.

And I do not intend to make this conservative propaganda bull crap. I'm not going to get into any political mess, because to be honest, I don't see both sides clearly. I'd rather just smile and nod out of a debate if one were to come up.

You see, part of the problem is that most of the rants against bush are from foreigners. Don't get me wrong, I love foriegners and foreign counteries. I know many people from Canada, and I love the Rocky Mountains, and the bodies of water I found up there. Beautiful. I love Japan's efficiency, and I've met a few people from there. It's so much fun to talk them.

But that isn't the point. The point is that they're foreign, and they doesn't quite understand why america is here. I wonder if he even knows about the revolution and that crap. Hell, it's like being a pain in the ass is in our genes. Anyways, here is my view of America:

Once upon a time, there were some people who didn't like the way things were going. So they went to the extreme and declared themselves independent. They got into many wars, and won some, lost others. Suddenly, two rather tall and impressive buildings got blown up. There were some people who didn't like the way things were going. So they went to the extreme and declared war on the trespassers. Once comitted, they can't turn back.

We did that once before, remember? cough cough Germany Hitler... cough cough. Shoot. I'm not saying German's are evil either. A matter of fact...I like the music. Anyways, I'm sure I was making a point. Oh yea, for all the harm we're doing, we're doing some good too; water filteration, supplying electricity, etc. My dad's friend came back with pictures, and for all of Iraq hating us they looked pretty friendly in the pictures.

What is that? You got caught in the stereotype? Oh, okay. You're excused. To be honest, I had closed my mind to the whole idea of us doing any good in Iraq, but we are. It's because when you group yourselves with your friends, suddenly you agree with them. "He kills people." Easy to say. "He kills people in self defense" is like saying "The raper had a gun. It was me or him." There is no win situation in life, kids.

Not to mention another problem is the media. Of course they aren't going to talk about all the good that's going on in Iraq; that doesn't sell newspapers now does it? But, back to where I was going.

Boo frickin hoo. You hate Bush for a speech impedement, want me to cry? It's not that funny. The first time I heard him pronounce nuclear, I had a chuckle, and maybe a few times after that. It's not funny any more. Hahaha...look at him he has a speech impediment. HEY! GET OFF THE GUYS BACK! HE'S OBVIOUSLY AN IMMIGRANT, DIP ! [normal liberal mentality. Not to say all liberals are evil.] No one cares you hate him 'because he's the evil guy.' Evil is a word created to make weaker humans sleep better at night.

And than they go talk to their friends and complain about how evil Bush is, or they try to start an intelligent debate with someone only to realize that both sides agree almost completely. A lot of good that did you, I dare you to go up against someone who knows their subject, both sides. You can't have a debate unless you know both sides of the issue. Then come back with your story.

Where was I going with this...oh yea. Get off his back. There is more to a good leader than a simple speaking problem, and four years later it's still won't be funny.

I'm not going to apologize for him being our leader.

I'm not going to cry myself at sleep wishing Kerry won.

She rants the truth.

Actually, she's opened her flanks to a serious backlash from 'ignorant foreigners' like me. Don't know why America is here because I'm foreign? Rubbish.

The full backlash will come tomorrow when I'm less tired.

I'm looking forward to it, CaptainWill.

"They keep trying to find ways to hurt and destory our contry, and niether do we"
-Your loveable bush

He's an idiot at times, get over it.

why do you care about Bush? I mean... our president is a bitch...

Ok, here's the backlash... It's not your views that I'm really riled at (I actually agree with you on some points), it's some of the comments that you made in your post.



I doubt that it will become a very long debate - I've kind of lost the stamina to participate eagerly in political arguments.



Well, there's only one real thread that has a major Bush vs the World debate going on in it... People in those threads do not represent the objective political community if their best arguments against Bush revolve around his intelligence (or perceived lack of due to his odd speech).

Remember that a lot of people on this site are in the region of 10-14 years old and have a very hazy view of politics. Don't take their arguments, which were probably picked up from popular websites that bash Bush and sheer hearsay (not the band...), as representative of what mature, intelligent people have to say about Bush. You're absolutely right when you claim that they don't know why they're hating Bush. They've jumped on the bandwagon, as you put it, and they really ought to shut up - I'm with you on that point.

Just remember that the conservatives on this site can be just as bad, and they have no idea why they're supporting Bush. They make some generic, contentious claim that Bush is 'building a stronger America' or something, and then doggedly stick to that line of argument.



Fair enough.



... Strangely, that's just the attitude that us foreigners hate (especially Europeans as we have a superiority complex). It seems patronising to us that you find us 'fun to talk to.' I don't know if what you meant to say came out wrong, but I've seen Americans do this time and time again so I think that it's just a typical American 'trying to be nice but coming across condescending' approach to international relations. Of course, it's mainly the nationalist element of countries that objects to your approach, but those elements are often rather vocal and influential.



I don't know if you've got any idea of just how insulting that paragraph was to non-US residents.
I'd like to particularly draw your attention to the words: 'The point is that they're foreign, and they doesn't quite understand why america is here.

It's just a really crass thing to say that isn't going to get your argument much sympathy from us foreigners. Also, I have a feeling that as you're the only superpower in the world, your none-too-long history tends to be thrown at us like so much dry bread. This means that most of us do have some knowledge of the American Revolution and so on...



Well, that's a very general series of events. I wonder how much you actually know about your own history? I know that you're trying to dumb it down for the kiddies here, but now you've also gotten onto the wrong side of the historian in me - I can't stand seeing history simplified to such a degree that it sounds like a special needs teacher with a big fake smile telling the slow kids a nice story. (Sorry, just whinging there )

I totally agree with you when you say that the USA is committed to the war in Iraq. You cannot back down, and that's a problem.



Sorry...America did what now? I don't exactly know what you're trying to say with the first part of that paragraph, but it looks a bit suspicious to me: like you're trying to oversimplify history again.

As for the good you were doing...well that's changed now. I'd be prepared to bet that those pictures you mentioned were taken a while back, were of children or were taken in a relatively safe zone of Iraq. Now that the insurgency has reached fever pitch, you can no longer proceed with your reconstruction work. That's not really your fault though. The situation in Iraq gets more grim every day.



Not quite sure what you're talking about there.



There's no news like bad news. Like you said, good news doesn't sell. You really have to dig around to find reasonably balanced news these days. Try http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/default.stm for a start.



To be honest, his poor pronunciation and susceptibility to silly ad-libbing doesn't matter too much, although it doesn't help his negotiating skills. I'm more worried that he's destroying the world economy through his warmongering and mismanagement of home finances.

[QUOTE]

Lets face it, they were both bad candidates. I thought that it was time for a change though, which is why I supported Kerry. I also don't like the Republicans very much - too far right for me.

You get pissed at FireKame for making a generalization about foreigners and then you say this? Try not to be such a hypocrite, Will.

At least my generalisation was backed up by looking at the birthdays of members who have posted on these politics topics. Most of them are pre-teen/early-teens.

Most of the oldbie 'respected' members are in their mid or late teens.

In my experience, the non-US citizens on here seem to be better informed on politics as well. Is a generalisation still a generalisation when there is evidence to back it up?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - anyone who invites and encourages attacks on his own soldiers is not fit to lead them. If you choose to ignore that fact, well, that's your business.

About the "happy" pictures of Iraqis, do you really think that the US government would alllow journalists to report the true opinions of Iraqis, especially if it's against their best interests? They censored the news in the Gulf War and they're censoring it now - it's no big secret. Don't watch TV if you're looking for accurate news coverage. Listen to the BBC or something. They're about as impartial as you could hope a modern news agency could be, and even they have their moments of bias.

Captain Will:

I do not see how having fun by talking to someone is humoring them. Naru (the guy from Japan) was really really really funny. So was Gonzo. Well, that wasn't his real name, but his real one is really long for a stupid american, so he shortened it to Gonzo. And Chris, a guy I met up in Canada. He was telling me about how funny it is when people ask him if Canada has cable and the answers he comes up with. How is that humoring them? If my intention was only to humor foreigners...there is no point in that. I find foreign cultures really cool. That's all I was saying by that. Just because I say "Yoshi is a fun person to talk to" how is that humoring him?


'they' was referring to the statement I had made before:



I sympathize with you. There are many inaccuracies when I was first taught general american history. Like how Columbus was the first on the americas. I was simplifying to show that underlying all of the political reasons, most wars are exactly the same.

Like you said, I do not know too much about American History. I know enough to get a B in the class, but I really never cared about it. I never understood why there was a year of American History and a semester of World History. Scotland and Ireland's history is only mentioned in passing; I wasn't even aware of the holy war over there until I was in seventh or eighth grade.


After WWI, troops pulled out of Germany to let them solve their own problems; and in doing so Hitler rose to power.


The funny thing about that is that if you go far enough right and far enough left, you end up with the exact same thing.

Sorry - was a misinterpretation. However, your wording was rather open to interpretation (one of my English teachers has drummed into us what you can and can't say, and how you can and can't say it). If you said something like that in a diplomatic conference, it would be taken as an insult. It's all about connotations.



Ok, I couldn't tell if you were talking about one person or foreigners in general.



Yes, I've heard that American history is in-depth and biased on issues such as the War of Independence, WW2 and the War of 1812, whilst Global history is like a very broad course that doesn't go into much detail on anything.



Well, not really. The troops were pulled out because we couldn't afford to keep them there (Every country that had been involved in WWI from the beginning was bankrupt), and because President Wilson put intense diplomatic pressure on the other leaders, particularly Georges Clemenceau, to let Germany become a democracy and not a state under the jurisdiction of Britain and France.

Also, It was probably the Wall Street Crash that caused Hitler's rise to power. Without the Depression caused by the Crash, there would have been no economic problems in Germany, less unrest and less of a chance for Hitler to capitalise on those factors.

I guess your world history at school was really scant on the details then!




Yeah, kind of. People are using a four point scale nowadays, rather than simple left and right wing. Extreme Left and Right Wing Authoritarian regimes are similar. But if you have the extremes of Right Wing Authoritarian and Left Wing Libertarian, then you have two very different regimes.

Sorry if I was a bit harsh in my first post, it was just that I promised a 'backlash,' so I had to follow it up

Also, I think it is mainly younger people on this site that bash Bush, not foreign people. I have noticed a lot of indignation amongst Americans on here at Bush's re-election too, not just from the foreigners.

BUSH SUCKS.

he:
-is planning to ruin America by scrapping Social Security while we are all worried about Iraq
-got us into a stupid war for which we had no true reason to get into
-got laws passed that violate our rights
-made the world hate us
-plans to trash America's environment