Staredit Network

oh ok,I was probably just mistaken in thinking that becuase in the literal sense water can wash you clean, that christinity adopted this belief that holy water not only washed your out side but also cleaned your soul, thus baptizm by water...

Rhiom, in light of your recent post I MUST clear up many things. I NEVER said John the Baptist was the ONLY person who baptized people. I don't know where you assumed wrongly but somewhere along my posts you did. Also, about the priest thing. No priest taught me the Bible. And I believe you are thinking of priest in a different term than Chris was. He was thinking of a "holy" human who was "closer" to God than other people. Not your local preacher. So no, I don't think they are special. Also, they did not write the Bible because of Divine inspiration. He TOLD them what to write(obviously I don't mean word by word now). Eh, let's see what else. Oh. we are not sinners when we are born. I don't know what Bible YOU are reading but in this Bible of yours babies go to hell? Odd, I believe God said if you have sinned and have not repented you are going to hell. Well, a baby can't repent for something he doesn't even know he did. Ah, the saints idea. You are still taking time out of God to worship other people. Oh I am sorry "praise". My point is God is a "very jealous God". I don't think He wants you to praise other people in the spot of Him. About the whole capitalization thing. I never said you would burn if you didn't capitalize his name. I said I think you owe Him the respect to just reach over and hit the shift button. Another thing. I DO accept people for who they are. If you are Christian(which I believe you aren't. I may be wrong) you know that it is our job to(gosh what is that word) recruit? people to our religion. Also, I find it VERY offensive that you would cuss when you are supposedly trying to get a religious point across. I don't remember Jesus cussing at the disciples when He was telling them He was the Son of God. And I will get that verse for you in just a second. (getting off-topic) I need to get to bed soon so let me try by tonight.

my mistake for thinking that you said only john baptized people.... also yes i am christian.

Also i dont belive in saint worship as well so i would kinda have to agree it's stupid but for different reasons then you stated.

also, i cant go back far enough to find the exact quote but in your response to chris you said osmehitng along the lines of not capitaling his name was a sin, thsu you could concivably go to hell for it if you were unforgiven...

[QUOTE]Another thing is it DOES matter weather you capitalize his name or not. It is VERY disrespectful. He sends His only Son to die for you and you can't take a second out of your life to reach over and hit the shift button? I think that is wrong.

Anyways that is all I said. As for the John the Baptist thing. It was being used in different context. I didn't mean he was the only one EVER to baptize. Now for that baptism verse.....darn things are hard to find once you need 'em.

Edit#1: Ok. Here is the series I use for this. Well first I want to start by saying the Ancient Greek word "baptizdo" means full submerged. Anways.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is just a quote showing that you MUST be baptized in order to be saved.(only once you are able to decipher good from wrong)


Acts 10:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

This shows that you must be IN the water. Then they came up OUT of the water. It doesn't say they shook off the sprinkles of water dripped on there foreheads(slammed)

Mathew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

This shows that JESUS HIMSELF was baptized UNDER water. Now if we are trying to follow in his footsteps I think we must do what He has done for us. So that should be proof anough.

Haha I'm not even using the words I just use the censored with colons around it. Anyways sorry if it seems like I'm cussing but I'm not and I'll leave you guys alone because indesicive can't seem to handle a different opinion...

Edit: Before I finally leave I really need to clear this up.

10 Commandments, "Thou shalt not kill"

Well, were all screwed right? You breathe and you kill many many floating cells. You take a step on the ground or lie in your bet and you are killing tiny insects (yes they live in your bed and there's no way to avoid it). You go hunting and kill a deer; the guys who give you meat. Are they all going to hell because they didn't follow that rule? I mean hey if you say well you wont go to hell if you stop killing animals for food, then you're killing plants.

Are you just not meant to be alive? Are we all just going to hell for living? No I'm not being a smart ass, I'm bringing up a good point because alot of Christians I know believe cells aren't alive. They believe only creatures made by God are. This contradicts itself as God surely had made cells right?

Please answer this question and don't say something like "God meant it to be like this so roar, I'm right and you're a bloody atheist." Please answer it intelligently like I see FK do alot.

Well ShadowBrood, He is not tlaking about tiny little micro-organisms(or whatever you call 'em). He is talking about humans. I mean, He obviously knew you would kill things in your life but not people. I think He would have said something like "Thou shalt not kill anything: if that is what He meant.

Also remember that Jesus made a lot of amendments to the commandments. If you're a Christian, it is his commandments that you should be following, and not those in the OT.

For those wondering if I'm Christian... I am officially, but my opinions differ markedly from those of the Church. All of my knowledge on Christianity comes from five compulsory years of studying religion, philosophy and ethics. I know my stuff (usually... last night I referenced Exodus when it should have been Genesis - Oh the horror!), but I don't study the topics anymore.

CaptainWill, was that just a random fact that came out of nowhere? lol. You said Jesus made a lot of amendments to the Ten Commandments, which is true, but why bring it up at this point in time? lol. Seemed out of place to me. Err, oh I guess you were referring to me saying the whole Thou shalt not kill thing? Anyways, I think you should continue your studies CaptainWill. Try your best to become a good Christian. I hope you do because with your logic, yiou would be a great help when some of these people say stuff.

I don't have any time for more religious studies - I'm now doing Chemistry, Biology, English Language and History.

yeah, cool, I live in an area with A LOT of jewish people and I am amazed about how much (at least in my area) they dislike Catholism. We (in class) was studing the Northern Reniassance and had a in class discussion on Martin Luther and such and I was amazed to see how many of the Jewish students (like half the class jewish) didn't know much about Catholism and instantly started ranting at it and I was like wtf, that ain't true. And stuff like that.

wow, thats an untold miracle then, jesus telling people what to write when he was unborn. I mean the old testament is a great acheivement for someone who's -several thousand years.



somewhere along the line i hate to tell you but a priest was invloved, either it be in helping write the bible or by telling the person that you did learn it from, or by telling the person who told the person you learned it from etc.

Also for the baptism thing, it is my fault that i didnt also capitalize the FULLY submerged part, becuase no part in your versus said fully submerged at all, and no duh water is involved, i'm not a retard.

I was wroung about what you said about capitalization though, You did indeed not say whether or not it was a sin. i just impled it considering that most VERY disgraceful things agianst god are usually a sin.


Also, I didn't assume anything other then that you wrote, what you meant to say. Sorry, I guese i just won't take your words at face value in the future.



so whta do you mean on their own will? Are you saying that one day some guy just said hey lets dip people in water and call it a religouse cerimony for the hey of it? or maybe there was prior meaning to it that the christians adapted from the jewish being that Christ himself was jewish...

Funny, how when Christianity is evolving suddenly everything becomes contradictory and ridiculed by outside forces.


Oh yay! One of my favoritist verses in the whole world covers this!

1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: 2 a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; 3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.
-Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
I believe that was King Saul, but I could be wrong. Anyways, what I think he's saying is that what is supposed to be done will be done reguardless of what you try to do. There is no need to kill needlessly, but there is no reason to be leniant when it is obvious someone needs a strong reminder to get in place.


Which is not to say that it all should be discarded; there are some good lessons there. This also brings up a good point.

I've noticed that one of the complaints against christianity is that some don't know where to interpret literally and where to interpret on a more case by case basis.
For example, Jesus threw out a lot of the old thoughts in the Old Testament. Take a look at Leviticus one time...that thing has all types of strange rules. Genesis and Revalations are hard to interpret (as is most of one of the books David wrote; I forget which) where the events are outside of our comprehension due to the fact we were/are not around during their time. Also a lot of Paul's letters (Ephesians, Corinthians, etc.) May not need to be interpreted directly. They were to that specific group, and just as God deals with every man differently so does Paul.
Jesus talked in parables and metaphors quite often ('knock this temple down and I will rebuild it in three days' is one of the most powerful), so that should probably be interpreted in your own way.

That's part of Christianity; everyone having their own way of taking something and making it their own. That is why Protestantism is more of a faith -- it is more relationship oriented where as some other religons are more by the book.

Well said Fire turtle,

another problem i think peple have trouble relizing is that the bible was written so that at least some poeple would follow it. often it is aksed why didn't the bible mention dinasuars, one answer to this is that yes god knew about the dinosaurs but think about how confused people 2000 years ago would have been if you told them that a long time ago giant beast roamed the earth. so to preserve at least some followers early christs had to dilude some messages or make them metiporical rather then literal.

I think it may be more that the dinosaurs existed before eden, it was never important before. Afterall, when Adam and Eve were thrown out this world was already in existence.

true enough, all the animals/ beasts were here before us. and the bible just maybe didnt want to waste space on somehting that trivial.... or king james edited it out...

Either that, or the Bible was written by men who knew nothing about dinosaurs...

that's another good point; there were bits pieced together during one of those famous guy's reign...I wish I could remember his name. Perhaps they decided to leave it out? I mean...the concept was probably way too far fetched for them.

ya during king jame's reign, he took out like 3 books of the bible plus heavily revised it. Also most other bibles are based off this or off latin texts which were also edited during this ime period. much of the original bible is unkown.

Also, will, in this thread it's asuming christianity is right.... so in other threads you would have somewhat of a valid point, unless maybe god didnt enspire the writers to knowledge of dinosaurs...w/e

Rhiom, I said He, He meaning God! Jesus of course didn't tell them what to right I said God. Anyways, baptism was a ritual for cleansing of the body. They believed they were "dirty"(used both ways) and must be cleansed. Also, when you are IN water are you just halfway in it? Also, I believe I stated that the Ancient Greek word is "baptizdo" meaning(heres a shocker) FULLY SUBMERGED. Hope you read next time. One last point, I never said capitalizing his name was "disgraceful" I said it was disrespectful. There IS a difference!

I was thinking about God and maybe we are just a whole big Experiment? I mean he (could have) created the Dinosausors and watched them around the earth for a very long time and decided to scrap them (kill all of them becuase science still doesn't ahve a solid reason why the dinosausors all died) and then got the bright idea to create men in his image and such. And we Humans were so smart to figure out he existed and then he liked us (humans) and created a heaven and such and so on and so on and then Jesus comes and dies and so on and so on. Maybe THIS could be the story of the earth. hahahaha maybe, I just thought of it now, what do you guys think?

Ok, this is my last goodbye to this thread, forever.

The Romans modified the crap out of the Bible so most of the Bibles today are just edited versions of that heavy edit. Therefore, we are getting a super edited version that isn't totally complete in some parts and leads to the thoughts that others have about Christianity contradicting itself.

ANother thing which I just thought I'd bring up is all the books that were left out of the Bible. They all showed the dakrer side of Jesus and stuff. Hell, he killed his playmate for fun and resurrected him to get out of trouble.
Not sayin Jesus is bad, but I'm sayin he was one messed up little kid.

Hey and if you're Christian aren't you living by what Jesus teaches? Doesn't this mean you should be a monk and help everyone you see and try to make them similar to you so they have no temptation to sin?

*ShadowBrood Enables permanent shut up in this thread mode.

Also S.T.A.R.S. science has found why the dinosuars died. Look on a map and look at the Gulf of Mexico. You're looking at the crash site of the meteor that made the dinosaurs go boom boom.

How did they come up with this you ask?

Send a probe in there and pick up the debris. Analyze it for a certain edge texture and internal composition and if it tests positive, then you got a meteor.

This was done with that meteor.

Now we know how farkin' huge that meteor was too! IT MADE MOST OF THE GULF!!

Oki I'm done.

1) Where the hell did you hear that? I'd like to read it...are talking about that satire book that came out not too recently? Funny book...but satire. It's fake.

2)We try that. People gets pissed at us.

3)God doesn't just snap his fingers and things go away...he floods people and he has sent balls of fire down on cities and such...

This thread is far too big for me to address everyone's comments.

But let me say, as a Catholic, what something we believe in...

We believe that getting baptised with the anointing of holy water on the head introduces you to the church formally, the elaborate proccess that the priest goes through is the blessing of the oils. We also believe that baptism takes away the "original sin" the sin that we all have when we are born with because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. (I personally think you should be baptised when you are older and are able to acknowledge your joining of the Church, but hey, who am I to alter over a thousand years of tradition?)

Any more questions I can help you with?


P.S. Interesting note: The Catholic Church and the Jewish community both agree on the old testament, but in a Jewish writ about the creation of Man, they elaborate that Eve was NOT Adam's first wife, but that his first wife Ethster(sp) was a spiteful and harping woman, so God *ahem* got rid of her, and made Eve. Yet all Christians NEVER mention even the possibility of this... the question is... why not? I am not making this up. The official Jewish writ says it (a bit better than I do).

Actually I was thinking about something the other day.

Why is it that in Genesis that the serpent is seen as ultimate evil, yet later Moses prooved God was on his side by turning his staff into a snake?

It's likely that he read it in The Da Vinci Code.

I think the point is that there were more than the 4 gospels that made it into the Bible. The gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John were carefully chosen by Emperor Constantine, with the advice of a council of early Christians. Rather interestingly, those 4 gospels are the only ones to describe Jesus as the Son of God.

There are many forgotten gospels that the Church tried to eliminate all record of over the years, including the gospel according to Mary Magdalene (who alledgedly fathered Jesus' son). If that is true, then there are probably descendants of Jesus among us today.

Sizable fragments of these gospels were found in a monastery in Tibet. They contradict some of the traditional ideas of Christianity.