Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-05-22 at 00:57:19
I find it extremely ridiculous how many atheists/agnostics stereotype us christians as opposers to science and all of that sort of stuff.... 
Mainly because the christian fundamentalists back in the very old days gave us a bad name with their stubborness and lack of intelligence
Mainly because the christian fundamentalists back in the very old days gave us a bad name with their stubborness and lack of intelligence
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CaptainWill on 2005-05-22 at 01:58:33
Why do some people still refuse to condone stem cell research on religious grounds then?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-05-22 at 14:26:48
QUOTE(CaptainWill @ May 22 2005, 12:58 AM)
Why do some people still refuse to condone stem cell research on religious grounds then?
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Because those people are overzealous fanatic fundamentalists. Yes there are some people still like that in the world, but that doesn't mean we're ALL like that.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .matrix//Merovingian on 2005-05-22 at 15:24:16
QUOTE(MillenniumArmy @ May 21 2005, 09:57 PM)
Mainly because the christian fundamentalists back in the very old days gave us a bad name with their stubborness and lack of intelligence
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As a fellow Christian, I agree. Fundamentalism is a disease, a cancer of otherwise-normal Christians that supresses most, if not all of their higher brain functions. Fundamentalists are a plague, a plague with no cure in sight...yet.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2005-05-22 at 17:58:17
The only problem is that these people run our country.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-05-22 at 18:13:40
Christians do, but i'm not sure the fundamentalists are... 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-23 at 08:36:36
QUOTE(Rantent @ May 22 2005, 03:58 PM)
The only problem is that these people run our country.
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Agreed...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-23 at 11:02:16
I guess I can agree with that. 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-23 at 15:15:24
... 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-23 at 15:18:00
Stimcell research is bad, we should be obviously be researching a cure for cancer.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2005-05-23 at 16:27:00
I'm willing to bet if someone figures this out, and then starts making a fortune over it outside of the US, I'm sure we'll start seeing some of those opposing it have a convenient change of heart on the matter when they decide they want to get in on it too.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2005-05-23 at 16:28:06
I think that its stupid if there are embryos or fertilized eggs that are not going to become babies (through abortion, implantation w/e) to just throw them away or store them when they could be used for saving lives.
I don't think that it's "killing" if the egg is never going to become a baby and is just going to sit in a test tube in some freezer forever.
I don't think that it's "killing" if the egg is never going to become a baby and is just going to sit in a test tube in some freezer forever.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-23 at 16:46:58
So you want to take away someone else's life to make another person's life better, what a great exchange.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-23 at 17:17:09
It is a great exchange, the person's life you are taking away would have been taken away anyway.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-23 at 17:26:27
You just repeated what I said. No need for that Devilesk.
Seriously, you guys treat human life like nothing. It's still a human life if it was going to be killed. That's like saying you mine as well steal someone's wallet when he's dead, I mean, he's dead, he doesn't need it does he?
Seriously, you guys treat human life like nothing. It's still a human life if it was going to be killed. That's like saying you mine as well steal someone's wallet when he's dead, I mean, he's dead, he doesn't need it does he?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2005-05-23 at 17:37:42
Actually, they now taken several day old embryos out. Abortion has proven to be rather... unrefined, and it doesn't yield nearly as many stem cells. This way is much more efficient. Hell, the only thing defining this thing as possibly human is its DNA. Take stem cells out of a rat's ass and implant human DNA into them...
Ultimo, stem cell research may yield the cure for cancer.
Ultimo, stem cell research may yield the cure for cancer.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-23 at 18:33:37
QUOTE(Ultimo @ May 23 2005, 05:26 PM)
You just repeated what I said. No need for that Devilesk.
Seriously, you guys treat human life like nothing. It's still a human life if it was going to be killed. That's like saying you mine as well steal someone's wallet when he's dead, I mean, he's dead, he doesn't need it does he?
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Seriously, you guys treat human life like nothing. It's still a human life if it was going to be killed. That's like saying you mine as well steal someone's wallet when he's dead, I mean, he's dead, he doesn't need it does he?
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No, I didn't repeat what you said, my point is the person's life is going to be taken away anyway so why not just use it to save another life. Your example is crap because it stealing a wallet doesn't = saving another life. And why yes, the person wouldn't need the wallet anyway, if I was ever near a dead guy with a wallet I would snatch it right away.
Lol I bet you don't like scavengers in nature either, they feed off of dead animals that were already dead, I suppose you would want them to just leave the dead carcass there would you?
I hope you someday need a heart transplant and the only donor organ that you can possibly get was from a dead guy who doesn't want to donate his organs.
BTW throwing away a good embryo or fetus and destroying it when you could use it for stem cell research to save others is like ordering a meal and saying oh I don't want it anymore and throwing it out when another person in the world is starving.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-05-23 at 18:57:22
Go have fun stealing a dead guy's wallet then.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .matrix//Merovingian on 2005-05-23 at 18:58:53
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ May 23 2005, 01:27 PM)
I'm willing to bet if someone figures this out, and then starts making a fortune over it outside of the US, I'm sure we'll start seeing some of those opposing it have a convenient change of heart on the matter when they decide they want to get in on it too.
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It's good that you brought that up, Tux. Once people start making money out of stem cell research, some of its opposers will change their allegiance in order to cash in on it. Greed can a powerful motivator.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2005-05-24 at 18:03:24
QUOTE(Ultimo @ May 23 2005, 04:57 PM)
Go have fun stealing a dead guy's wallet then.
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It's not as much "stealing a wallet from a dead guy" as it is stealing a wallet from a guy who'll never exist in the first place.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DevliN on 2005-05-24 at 19:24:19
Report, edit, etc...Posted by O)FaRTy1billion on 2005-05-24 at 21:01:31
From what I see they are using it to help with diseases such as Diabetes and stuff. If you could cure these with Stem Cell research that would be great.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-05-24 at 23:27:51
I did a quick search on Google and read a little about the issue, not sure if it's completely true. But I do think that all that pro-life is crap. It's pretty hypocritical and pointless. They are already disposing of many embryos that aren't needed yet the pro-life people ignore that and only focus on only the several dozen that have been used for stem cell research.
Now will any pro-life people give reasons why disposing of an embryo is not as bad as using it for stem cell research when ultimately both things lead to death?
The site has a few pages, the link doesn't go to a main page I think. There are also other links to pages in the site there too.
ADDITION:
Exactly, the idiots here will see that stem cell research in other places are actually making progress and we will be way behind here, and the government will be like "Omg we have to jump on the bandwagon and put lots of funding into it now!"
and read a little about the issue, not sure if it's completely true. But I do think that all that pro-life is crap. It's pretty hypocritical and pointless. They are already disposing of many embryos that aren't needed yet the pro-life people ignore that and only focus on only the several dozen that have been used for stem cell research.QUOTE
One source speculates that hundreds of thousands of unused embryos have been destroyed in fertility clinics. 2 This compares to only a few dozen embryos which have had their stem cells removed and used to create stem cell lines in the lab.
QUOTE
To some pro-life supporters, creating 24 human beings, and then murdering 21 of them in order to produce one newborn is much too high a price to pay. It is mass murder. One would expect that pro-life groups would actively picket and demonstrate at IVF clinics. However, we have never seen an account in the media of this actually happening.
As noted above, in addition to the hundreds of thousands of embryos that have been deep-frozen in fertility clinics, there is speculation that hundreds of thousands of additional unused embryos have been actively destroyed. 2 But very few of pro-life demonstrations are directed at the labs that have killed these massive numbers of embryos. Attention has been concentrated on the few dozen embryos whose stem cells were removed and used to create cultures in medical research labs.
We are at a loss to understand why pro-lifer leaders in the U.S. have concentrated on the few dozen embryos used in stem cell research, while almost ignoring the hundreds of thousands of embryos who have died in other ways in IVF clinics.
As noted above, in addition to the hundreds of thousands of embryos that have been deep-frozen in fertility clinics, there is speculation that hundreds of thousands of additional unused embryos have been actively destroyed. 2 But very few of pro-life demonstrations are directed at the labs that have killed these massive numbers of embryos. Attention has been concentrated on the few dozen embryos whose stem cells were removed and used to create cultures in medical research labs.
We are at a loss to understand why pro-lifer leaders in the U.S. have concentrated on the few dozen embryos used in stem cell research, while almost ignoring the hundreds of thousands of embryos who have died in other ways in IVF clinics.
Now will any pro-life people give reasons why disposing of an embryo is not as bad as using it for stem cell research when ultimately both things lead to death?
QUOTE
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_inco.htm
\The site has a few pages, the link doesn't go to a main page I think. There are also other links to pages in the site there too.
ADDITION:
QUOTE(.matrix//Merovingian @ May 23 2005, 06:58 PM)
It's good that you brought that up, Tux. Once people start making money out of stem cell research, some of its opposers will change their allegiance in order to cash in on it. Greed can a powerful motivator.
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Exactly, the idiots here will see that stem cell research in other places are actually making progress and we will be way behind here, and the government will be like "Omg we have to jump on the bandwagon and put lots of funding into it now!"
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2005-05-24 at 23:31:50
QUOTE
That's like saying you mine as well steal someone's wallet when he's dead, I mean, he's dead, he doesn't need it does he?
He doesn't. His money just ends up going to the goverment, unless he has a will or something. But that's not a good analogy to compare this with.Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-05-24 at 23:54:01
Um... I don't see how "So you want to take away someone else's life to make another person's life better, what a great exchange." is the same as "It is a great exchange, the person's life you are taking away would have been taken away anyway." he didn't say what you said, he took your arguement, place it in a small box, and proceeded to break it the **** apart with a sledge hammer... metaphorically speaking. If you're so concerned about not having embryos used to save peoples lives because it's bad, so instead just throw them out, let the person die, hey, you're not on the moral high ground, are you?What's been said before: The embryo is going to die anyway, one way can save the lives of many, many people who actually had a chance to live.