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Yeah, I agree Pirate, the system is far from perfect, what with the unburrow delay and the delay for the reavor to fire. Dabbu's system seems much more effective, but this is a good alternate method for macs (which, correct me if I'm wrong, cannot place locations off the grid or of that size)
Addition: No, I'm not using a Mac, so I can't confirm the thing about placing locations like starforge. Perhaps Warhammer could enlighten me, as I believe he uses a Mac.

Why don't you guys just download the burrow obstacle map I put on the post above and see how easy it is?
The map is unprotected, so you can look at the trigs.
Click here

Why don't you just read the first page were I posted an almost identical system, (mine uses burrowed zerg units), that in my opinion works better, (zerg unit is owned by a player other then you, no vision of unit, you can't see it being spawned - ugly dt silouette).

The only difference with mine is that if the unit is at the location then the unit your following is not burrowed; and if the unit is not at the location, then it is burrowed.

Alright I will; one moment. Oh, and you never see the "ugly dt" silhouette at the zergling because the silhouette only appears at the storage location, not where the ling is. I'll edit this when I look at your system.

Edit: Ok I finally understood it (when I first looked at it before this post I had no idea what you're talking about). The reason yours is better is because you don't need any "storage area" to place the burrowed ling. Now that I think about it that is pretty weird. You would think that the burrowed unit would spawn under the non-burrowed unit.

Well, you learn a new thing every day right?

Yah I thought the same thing!
I first noticed that when you would see those defense maps or anything like that were u would get zerglings to use as credits. If one was unburrowed in the center of the spawn location, there was about a 1x1 space around it were nothing else would be spawned if it was burrowed. I wonder why it works like that?

And, I was misreading yours, it would work about the same, but mine has no storage location, as you mentioned.

Download that burrow obstacle map though. It's fun!

I wish someone thought of that when bounds weren't cliche. I actually was making a concept of a bound where to dodge some explosions you burrow and others you unburrow, but I didn't have the method... Oh well

Location A is not needed. You can still spawn a unit at location B even if the whole location is blocked off by the unborrowed unit. You also forgot to mention the OTHER remove action for when the unit is displaced.

2nd you don't really need hyper triggers. The two triggers will fire one after another in instant speed. Hyper triggers will only allow it to be checked more often.

Lastly I would rather use a storage location than spawn a unit each time. For a few reasons. 1st i think spawning it would cause more lag unit score counters are increased and such. and 2nd If you get into a tight situation then you will end up with an unplaceable, with stored location with the unit being moved in it will simply stay where it is.

Well thats my 2 cents, they all pretty much work its all about preferance.



Creativity is a mapmakers strongest weapon. Someone who cannot come up with ideas for them self will always be just a copy. There ideas, there triggers and there maps will already be old news when they first do it. On the other hand if you are able to determine how to do things yourself your horizons are expanded enormously and you have the potential to exceed the people who essentially discovered it first.

Do not forget, bolt, that there is even creativity without new ideas and triggers.

Mmm, nice bounce.

Anyways depends on what you consider an idea.

I don't see how creativity can exist without ideas. I'm not refering to revolutionary game styles but simply methods that make a map work. Being able to use stuff to its fullest potential is a product of creativity.

wow the thing bolt head said was right O.O

I agree, but pure creativity isn't anything, I hate when people say "Oh I created this awesome complex trigger system so therefore I'm the best mapmaker". That's just crap. Most popular good maps that are fun to play over and over use many "complex" and completely conceptual trigger methods. Most are just solid well done maps that have good gameplay and aren't poorly done. I don't like seeing all of those fancy tricks people do in SF to make a map seem "good". That's not what the map should be about.

Also, I don't think a mapmaker has to be very creative in thinking up new ways to trigger a certain thing as you and kirby said. You don't have to create a map purely conceptual to have it be good, you can use many other simple systems that other people have done and make a well done map.

And I have one question, what's the method to get a burrowed unit to unburrow?

Select it and press 'u' if its yours, otherwise you can
A. Deal it damage
B. Put something it can attack close to it (only works for a computer ling)
C. Just remove it and create another that isnt burrowed (this breaks the hotkey though)
So really, doing it damage is the smartest move, that way it works for any ling.

Yea, I was looking for the way that lets you be able to hotkey it, meaning no removing/recreating. I saw it in Tux's RUSH map and I believe he had it so that it would unburrow whenever you burrowed.

You can also order it to move, or give it to a computer player.
Ordering to move seems like the best method to me.

Ah that's what it is, thanks.

Wait, how'd you see rush? Were you in on one of the betas, or did I miss it's release?

I saw it a long while ago, like a really early version of it before he made the production thread, he said it's changed a lot since then though.

Your last statement is what I meant. Have you ever played millenium's maps?

Many of his maps are EXACTLY the same! They all use the same concept: you launch something from your guy to some location, hoping the enemy is in the way. The creativity comes when he makes multiple maps with the exact same concept, but in different scenerios.

One is Rocket launchers (shoot a "rocket" staright at your opponent unloading a drosip)
Another uses wraiths and you siege tanks to launch scourges at the tank.
A third one uses Co-op beacons where you launch scourges from your civ to a co-op beacon.

In other words, the lee-way in an idea is "creativity" as well (a lesser form). That's why there's so many rediculous versions of Cat&Mouse! Sadly, most of these versions were made to cheat, not for creativity.

Of course . . . what did you expect. lol

Meh

I've been getting comments from lots of people saying that my maps weren't very hard to make. That is true in many cases, but the thing is, they're the first of their kind; noone else has made a (well known) map using the same concept idea. I value this more than the difficulty of making any maps.

And only millenium could pull it off

Aerial Combat and Rocket Launchers were two of them right? What's the beacon one called again?

Bumper balls

Well, it appears that this topic has outlasted its usefulness. Time to close up.

This is the best burrowing system: Click Here
Also, another interesting way is in this fun bound: Click Here

Mill's maps just aren't fun gameplay wise, I don't really care what creative concepts he uses. His newer ones at least. Some are ok like Wallball, most of this best ones are the older ones. But I guess his maps appeal to the ignorant bnet public who likes simple maps.

What do you mean by 'simple'?