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The fact about abortions should be allowed, if you are in a state that you cannot afford one, are not ready for one, or were raped.

Also, the aborted babies could be used for Stem Cell Research which could be used to save another person's life, for example, someone could have an extremely bad hernia in his stomach (Someone I know) And it is so bad, that they cannot pick up anything over ten pounds, they get extremely hurt when barely hit in the stomach, every hospital they go to can't do much because there isn't much to do, and they are suffering their life. Now if the Aborted babies would be used as Stem Cells, they would copy the cells around his stomach healing him better than anything out today.

Babies really aren't considered alive inside of the women, I agree with the scientists about that, so it isn't as bad, but it still is pretty bad killing something, but if you are in a state that you cannot have the baby for a good reason, it should be allowed.

Uhh yeah, see that's because they are alive and whatnot without Christianity aren't they? They're still poor aren't they? You said it yourself, they don't know about the outside world. This makes them and easier target for converters to spread lies about salvation.

No it's not bad to keep them away from Christianity, it's good to keep them away from all religions and keep them atheist until they decide, after being exposed to all the religions, which path they'll take. I used to be religious, used to be, until I realized how faulty Christianity was and how many holes are covered up with interpretations and how flawed the creation story is.

Same with me. I used to be a Mormon until I finally realised how many things they cover up, and twist around...

I never really believed about that part that "God created himself" That, to me, is a bit strange.

I have never been religious, I just found all of it to be pretty much nonsense, because there are no facts supporting it.

Evolution is comprised of facts, Chris. The fossil record is a fact. Archeological evidence are facts. The bills of Galapogos Finches is a fact. Laboratory observations of microevolution are facts. The Bible, and flawed arguements aggainst evolution, cannot be considered facts, therefor intelligent desing is not a theory.

Or how about in science class they also teach alchemy and witchcraft, as well as religious healing hymmns, and herbal medicine.

Evolution is also more than a theory, it is deifnately a paradigm, and the vast majority of scientists would feel safe to call it a fact.

You want "missing links"? Of course, you will claim there are more gaps, and continue from there ad infinitum, but here are a couple of examples of human evolution.
Ardipithicus ramidus
Australopithecus anamensis
Australopithecus afarensis
Australopithecus africanus
Australopithecus robustus
Homo habilis
Homo erectus
Homo sapiens archaic
Homo sapiens neandertalensis
Homo sapiens sapiens
Any missing links can be explained through the theroy of punctuated equilibrium, a modification on evolution proposed by Stephen Jay Gould.

So you are going to punish a child for his parents carelessness? What if he grows up unwanted, as he probably will, and commits suicide? What if he becomes a serial killer? Unwanted children are also being punished here, not just their parents.

That is why I would be safe to also call it a fact, it is more very probable that evolution created us. It makes way more sense then someone all of the sudden appearing out of no where and creating us.

Oh and I forgot about this:

Chris, many religions (like Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, and to a certain extent, Islam)
are tolerant of other interpretations of God. Judaism is not tolerant, but not as fiercely intolerant as Christianity.

If this kid got aborted he would never grew up a serial killer and would never kill the scientist who was working on a cell research to save lifes...

God is a book charecter

I like that Intelligent Design theory. It's so flawed. Ok so, God is the most powerful being in the universe correct? Oh noes! He's intelligent isn't he? Hmm, well, if intelligent life had to create intelligent life, something created him didn't it! But then, something created the creator! It's an infinite chain!

Don't say God created himself, because you are supporting that intelligent life doesn't explain humanity. It would make no sense to just have this random bit of knowledge of everything just floating and uo pops an old man who's senile enough to think he can create humanity.

Right there, huge flaw.

GG no RM.

If God's so intelligent, and he created us, why do men have nipples? Why does a panda have a useless thumb. Why are there analogus structrues in animals? Why is the human eye backwards? Seriously...

GG<--- stolen from wesmic.

That is why I said that I don't believe that he created him self. It doesn't make any sense what so ever that he created himself, so it should not be said as an answer if you ask someone "Who created God?."

Wars over nothing? Well that depends on your point of view. But as far as the religious part, I'm sure religions aren't like that today.

At least not on the North American Continent.

Which is Worse:
mormon preaching in your dorrstep?

Witness of Jahova preaching on yoru doorstep?

No idea since i've never encountered either of these two groups

Hmm... Trying to get gay marriages bannedisn't a war hu?

It's a war against homosexual's rights.

like i said, wars over nothing. there is no real reason that 2 dudes can not get married. i mean, sure its grove and they smell alittle weird, but there is nothing wrong with it. but we amaricans have to have something to hate. so it falls on them. i dont know......whatever

Neither will him.....


And no matter how much you bring to me, ALL high ranking scientists will tell you that evolution is still just a theory. Just becuase YOU see it one way doesn't mean its instantly fact. Evolution is still just a thoery, so ANY other reasons can be accepted. I'm sorry the truth hurts doesn't it?

And you guys are acting SO wierd. I thought people like you would accept ALL beliefs but apparantly Intelligant Design is TOTALLY not allowed in school from what I am hearing from you guys, at least I get the feeling of what your saying.

Im saying ALL topics on evolution should be discussed, not just Darwin's theory. You guys are trying SO hard to make it fact when its still proven to be still a theory.

Which denominations are we talking about here? I know a few who are very open about homosexuality.

What denominations are we talking about here? (again)

Intelligent Design

Do you know how many denominations there are? Do you know all the doctrines and creeds?

The woman at the well.

If its a God given mission you pretty much have to do it.

Ok chris, we're against intellegent design not because we're close minded, but because its fake science, thats right, FAKE. All of their so called proof is either self contradictory, or has already been proven false scientifically. I said this before in a thread a while ago, their so called reasons of complexity in design are incorrect, they need to face the fact that simple life forms do indeed evolve into more complex ones, and stop spouting lies around people not well enough informed to see them for what they are, it disgusts me that they pretend to have scientific evidence for their religion, when in face all of their so called evidence is a complete fabrication.

Also, I think some of you people who are going on and on about how evolution is simply a theory need to understand that in science essentially everything is a theory, the term is used completly differently in science than it is by normal people, therefor the claim that evolution is just a theory is a mininformed one. Every scientific fact we know of is technically a theory, after all, in a million years we might discover that gravity is in fact caused by forces completly different from our initial assumption, that will become the new theory, until something that makes more sense usurps it. Seeing as intelligent design is scientifically flawed, and religions have no factual backing for their creation stories, evolution currently seems like the best option. After all, you wouldn't teach students at a school that the world is flat because "Its an alternate viewpoint, after all, the round earth is a theory". Thats the exact same thing as teaching intelligent design/creationism in schools, its teaching people things which all evidence indicate to be incorrect.
Whew, that was a long post.

umm, yeah....Intelligant Design is banned from schools. seperation of church and state......it you went to school, you would know that

The only reason any "God" exsists is because the high people in the certian religion SAY he does.

It's all blind faith.

I believe he said some proof...

There are alot more facts supporting Evolution, then something that has basically no facts. There is some evidence supporting evolution, where with Intelligent Design, I would like to see some.

Evolution is still a theory, but it is the closest information as to how we were started as a race, Evolution has alot of well thought out ideas of how we were created. Intelligent Design has none.

In the end, I always go to the things that are:

A) Common Sense

B) Supported The Most By Facts

C) Something That Is Not Asinine

Agreed.

Oh man, not this again... (Evolution thing this time)

Please. No.

If you are going to continue, fine but I would STRONGLY recommend reading the links in this link before attempting to debate:
http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=19321

Otherwise, you'll just get beaten down by some random "fallacy" that you've never heard of; then accuse them of lying or some other stuff and ignoring your arguement (which has already been falsfied due to the fact it's a logical error).

Chris, ask any scientist, evolution is PROVEN to be a law. It exists today, right now as we sit here gibber jabberin. But that's not the question. The question is;
did we evolve from X animal(s), or did God just create us? That's what the debate is about.

Dr.Shotgun, you kinda made a one-way topic. This stuff isn't going to go anywhere, people'll just come and regurgitate their beliefs without actually trying to listen to the other arguments, with the exceptions of arguing against them, which will lead to a series of quoting each other and finding faults in the nooks and crannies.

But I will participate.

For reference purposes, take a look at The Game of Life, in which a series of simple rules can create complicated results with endless patterns. Since a major argument of Intelligent Design is that life is too complex to have simply evolved from lesser beings, The Game of Life hints otherwise. Since Bush is trying to get Intelligent Design into school textbooks, that could also be another sign that it's false (Mostly joking ).