Report, edit, etc...Posted by Snake)Ling on 2005-11-20 at 18:16:47
Really, Neiji's right.
Athiests don't have anything to keep themselves from committing crimes. Religious people have to think whether they would go to hell or heaven before they commit crimes.
Athiests don't have anything to keep themselves from committing crimes. Religious people have to think whether they would go to hell or heaven before they commit crimes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shapechanger on 2005-11-20 at 18:18:26
You don't need religion to teach those principals.
They can be taught just as easily without religion.
They can be taught just as easily without religion.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MindArchon on 2005-11-20 at 18:20:21
QUOTE(Snake)Ling @ Nov 20 2005, 04:16 PM)
Really, Neiji's right.
Athiests don't have anything to keep themselves from committing crimes. Religious people have to think whether they would go to hell or heaven before they commit crimes.
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Athiests don't have anything to keep themselves from committing crimes. Religious people have to think whether they would go to hell or heaven before they commit crimes.
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Wouldnt athiest people think about non-spirtual consequences? Such as going to jail, being hated, etc. I can see these consequences much easier than going to hell, which I dont even know exists.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shapechanger on 2005-11-20 at 18:23:51
That is an excellent point, too.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by warhammer40000 on 2005-11-20 at 19:10:00
QUOTE(Snake)Ling @ Nov 20 2005, 06:16 PM)
Athiests don't have anything to keep themselves from committing crimes.
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Except a conscience... except the law...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-11-20 at 19:20:58
QUOTE(Snake)Ling @ Nov 20 2005, 08:39 AM)
Religion gives people morals, in most cases, good ones, especially in moderates.
Imagine a world without religion. It would be a world without morals. You see, belief in god, heaven, and hell instills the belief in people that if they do something "bad" (such as murder someone or rape someone) they will go to hell. So they don't want to murder or rape people.
On the other hand, some people take religion too far, and we get the Crusades, we get 9/11, and we get the murder of Israeli Prime Minister Rabin.
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Imagine a world without religion. It would be a world without morals. You see, belief in god, heaven, and hell instills the belief in people that if they do something "bad" (such as murder someone or rape someone) they will go to hell. So they don't want to murder or rape people.
On the other hand, some people take religion too far, and we get the Crusades, we get 9/11, and we get the murder of Israeli Prime Minister Rabin.
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That's why we have a thing called laws. Sorry for repeating the obvious, but I'm getting this message through very clear. If there is no god and/or religions, morals will still exist.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by re_casper on 2005-11-20 at 23:05:29
QUOTE(Shapechanger @ Nov 20 2005, 07:22 AM)
Exactly. If parents taught the all but dead Golden Rule (Actually, that may have come from a religion 
), and other morals without using religion to back their teachings, I'm sure that it would work just as well.
If you teach someone religion, but not its morals, it's worthless.
If you teach someone religion with its morals, it's a positive thing.
Or, you can teach someone morals, flat out, plain and simple.
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), and other morals without using religion to back their teachings, I'm sure that it would work just as well.If you teach someone religion, but not its morals, it's worthless.
If you teach someone religion with its morals, it's a positive thing.
Or, you can teach someone morals, flat out, plain and simple.
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If you teach someone religeon without morals, it is useless. But if you teach life without morals, that is useless.
But what if the person being taught is someone atheistic and does not believe in that stuff, wouldnt he go outside and do whatever the teacher said NOT to do, just cuz he hates it?
What is the Golden Rule and it does come from a religeon. You do not have to back up morals with religeon. Religion is where morals come from. So if you believe that there is no God, and you are hit by a car, sux to be you.
Where does compassion come from? Why should I care for you (if atheism is true -dont think i spelled it right-) may the strongest win. But that is all an IF
But I want to point out that if Christianity is right, then everything else is wrong, but if Something besides Christianity is right, then Chirstianity is wrong.
QUOTE
Religion also begins Holy Wars, such as the Crusades and the ones that the various branches of Islam are fighting against one another. Nobody should ever die because of their beliefs. This includes the children that die because of a lack of medical aid.
Nobody should die for what they believe, but also we should die for what we believe if you are going to kill me for believing in what is said. Native Americans were cautious to talk to the settlers. Just like a person who does not know what medical aid is. I think you are hiding a lot of details that I cannot assume.
QUOTE
QUOTE(Snake)Ling @ Nov 20 2005, 06:16 PM)
Athiests don't have anything to keep themselves from committing crimes.
Athiests don't have anything to keep themselves from committing crimes.
QUOTE
Except a conscience... except the law...
No... lets say a completly insane person kills someone he wont stop to kill another. but not everyone is insane.
What does your conscience say when there is $500 dollars lying on the table? What does your conscience say if you are commanded to shoot a man found guilty for what he believes in.
Religeon is what superstition is. You will believe it if you actually see a demon in work. Say like you do not believe in God, but you see a demon. And it commands you to worship him, and believe in him that he would save you from trouble. You would believe him right? That is basically how many pagan religeons started.
Muslim are actually following the Bible's prophesy.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rogue_Phoenix on 2005-11-21 at 00:08:54
QUOTE
But what if the person being taught is someone atheistic and does not believe in that stuff, wouldnt he go outside and do whatever the teacher said NOT to do, just cuz he hates it?
No, because the atheist would think,"hmm I could hit Susie but then I would have to sit inside for recess and that would be bad".
QUOTE
Where does compassion come from? Why should I care for you (if atheism is true -dont think i spelled it right-) may the strongest win.
You should care for me because then we can team together and get through things far more efficiently together then we would have been able to alone.
In short, don't believe that all atheists are resentful and hate everyone and everything just because we refuse to see the world in certain lights.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Aikanaro on 2005-11-21 at 07:22:24
QUOTE(Snake)Ling @ Nov 20 2005, 06:16 PM)
Really, Neiji's right.
Athiests don't have anything to keep themselves from committing crimes. Religious people have to think whether they would go to hell or heaven before they commit crimes.
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Athiests don't have anything to keep themselves from committing crimes. Religious people have to think whether they would go to hell or heaven before they commit crimes.
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Oh thats nice, Lets be all good because were being threatened to go to hell if not. Lets live in fear. We aren't doing all those morally right things because we believe it is right, but because if we don't... Were going to be pwned by Satan.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2005-11-21 at 09:28:41
QUOTE(Rogue_Phoenix @ Nov 20 2005, 11:08 PM)
In short, don't believe that all atheists are resentful and hate everyone and everything just because we refuse to see the world in certain lights.
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Agreed 100%. Just because athiests don't get their morals from religion doesn't mean that they don't have any.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shapechanger on 2005-11-21 at 11:01:17
Casper, you do realize you just stereotyped the word 'atheist' up and down the court, right?
So you, being a religious follower, would think this of an atheist being hit by a car? I think I've just further prooven my point.
QUOTE
So if you believe that there is no God, and you are hit by a car, sux to be you.
So you, being a religious follower, would think this of an atheist being hit by a car? I think I've just further prooven my point.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Neiji on 2005-11-21 at 16:38:40
QUOTE
No, because the atheist would think,"hmm I could hit Susie but then I would have to sit inside for recess and that would be bad".
Only reason you're good is for your own selfish reasons?
QUOTE
Oh thats nice, Lets be all good because were being threatened to go to hell if not. Lets live in fear. We aren't doing all those morally right things because we believe it is right, but because if we don't... Were going to be pwned by Satan.
What you just said contradicts God. Who says we believe we are being threatened? There is a reward, and there is nothing. Reward = heaven and Nothing = Hell. Gawd, why is hell the only thing taken literally in the Bible? THERE'S NO FLAMES. NO BURNING! Burning = Fire = Light = Contradiction of the Bible saying Hell is complete darkness. It is just separation from God. You be w/ God = do the right things and Choose to turn God away = w/e do wut u want and you'll get it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Do-0dan on 2005-11-21 at 17:05:33
u forgot to mention that u have no moral in hell, if hell is just a place without god, then it's the same as the place we live in now
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-11-21 at 17:19:59
QUOTE(Loser_Musician @ Nov 20 2005, 05:20 PM)
That's why we have a thing called laws. Sorry for repeating the obvious, but I'm getting this message through very clear. If there is no god and/or religions, morals will still exist.
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It's true.
QUOTE(ShapeChanger)
Religion gives people morals, in most cases, good ones, especially in moderates.
Imagine a world without religion. It would be a world without morals. You see, belief in god, heaven, and hell instills the belief in people that if they do something "bad" (such as murder someone or rape someone) they will go to hell. So they don't want to murder or rape people.
On the other hand, some people take religion too far, and we get the Crusades, we get 9/11, and we get the murder of Israeli Prime Minister Rabin.
Imagine a world without religion. It would be a world without morals. You see, belief in god, heaven, and hell instills the belief in people that if they do something "bad" (such as murder someone or rape someone) they will go to hell. So they don't want to murder or rape people.
On the other hand, some people take religion too far, and we get the Crusades, we get 9/11, and we get the murder of Israeli Prime Minister Rabin.
Hmmm... you're wrong.
The BIBLE is where religion gets their morals. Religion did not create the morals.
A world without religion would be better. People would read The Bible, and get the morals, and not judge people like religion teaches you (I'm generalizing -_-)
And you must not know anything about how religion is setup. According to religion, if you "repent" you will be forgiven. Lies.
And it's not the fact that they don't want to, they have been taught NOT to. Why do you assume that religion created morals?
Read the Bible.
edit: Took out flames and replaced it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathawk on 2005-11-21 at 17:41:22
Fear is what makes the world go 'round.
Religion=Generates fear.
Without fear, Islamic radicals would have blown up the Earth.
Religion=Generates fear.
Without fear, Islamic radicals would have blown up the Earth.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Neiji on 2005-11-21 at 17:45:35
Religion does not generate fear. How is justice fear? You have nothing to fear if you are doing the right things, at least Christianity does.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Aikanaro on 2005-11-21 at 19:41:39
QUOTE(Neiji @ Nov 21 2005, 05:45 PM)
Religion does not generate fear. How is justice fear? You have nothing to fear if you are doing the right things, at least Christianity does.
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Thats true, but according to you, you do good things only because you believe in a Award/prize at the end (Aka Heaven). So basicly, its only because you want to go to heaven and not to hell. You base your desicions on a possible threat (Aka Hell), You can't even call it morales. Morales are one's own good judgement, Its not good judgement if you are basing it on the fear you have for hell and the prize you will get if you do good desicions(heaven).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Snake)Ling on 2005-11-21 at 20:55:58
So? My morals are still correct, and I believe if I follow the morals of the Koran, I'll go to heaven. Aikanaro, is it me, or do you seem to think that morals of these books such as "Don't murder", "Don't steal," etc, are wrong? Because your post is telling me that by following such morals indicated by the Koran is bad judgment.
And tell me, who says morals are one's own good judgement and not good judgments from a book? I think a book telling me not to murder or steal or get drunk is fine.
And tell me, who says morals are one's own good judgement and not good judgments from a book? I think a book telling me not to murder or steal or get drunk is fine.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Aikanaro on 2005-11-21 at 21:06:13
QUOTE(Snake)Ling @ Nov 21 2005, 08:55 PM)
So? My morals are still correct, and I believe if I follow the morals of the Koran, I'll go to heaven. Aikanaro, is it me, or do you seem to think that morals of these books such as "Don't murder", "Don't steal," etc, are wrong? Because your post is telling me that by following such morals indicated by the Koran is bad judgment.
And tell me, who says morals are one's own good judgement and not good judgments from a book? I think a book telling me not to murder or steal or get drunk is fine.
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And tell me, who says morals are one's own good judgement and not good judgments from a book? I think a book telling me not to murder or steal or get drunk is fine.
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No No, Its correct. But I find it rather pathetic that one has to be threatened to be sent somewhere if not done the right thing. I'm an Athiest, have never read the bible, do not have religious parents. Yet, my morals are fine. I don't murder, neither do I steal. The bible does insinuate good morals. But it also insinuates that not doing them, can lead you to hell. If you believe in it enough, it can convince you. Its true, with the threat/fear that you have for hell, you don't do bad desicions. But, it is far from being a morally right desicion you made in your head because you know its the right thing to do, instead of doing it because your either scared to go to hell or are waiting for your ultimate prize (Heaven).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Snake)Ling on 2005-11-21 at 21:08:50
You see, these religions were created as moral weapons, lol. Weapons of Moral Insinuation!
They want to scare everyone into being good. It backfired, but for some, it still works.
They want to scare everyone into being good. It backfired, but for some, it still works.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shapechanger on 2005-11-21 at 21:20:02
Keyword some.
A great deal of the world is suffering from this 'backfire'
A great deal of the world is suffering from this 'backfire'
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Neiji on 2005-11-21 at 22:08:56
Oh really. How?
It's not threatening. It's giving a chance that you dont' have to take. You tell me, what is the whole "threat" of hell?
QUOTE
Thats true, but according to you, you do good things only because you believe in a Award/prize at the end (Aka Heaven). So basicly, its only because you want to go to heaven and not to hell. You base your desicions on a possible threat (Aka Hell), You can't even call it morales. Morales are one's own good judgement, Its not good judgement if you are basing it on the fear you have for hell and the prize you will get if you do good desicions(heaven).
QUOTE
Reward = heaven and Nothing = Hell. Gawd, why is hell the only thing taken literally in the Bible? THERE'S NO FLAMES. NO BURNING! Burning = Fire = Light = Contradiction of the Bible saying Hell is complete darkness. It is just separation from God. You be w/ God = do the right things and Choose to turn God away = w/e do wut u want and you'll get it.
It's not threatening. It's giving a chance that you dont' have to take. You tell me, what is the whole "threat" of hell?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-11-21 at 23:10:47
The threat of hell works the same as the threat of jail. Thing is, I got nothing against religion. If I was a leader, I would call myself a prophet and have people listen to me no questions asked. And I'm not joking. A prophet with a large loyal army is easily one of the most powerful things one can acheive.
BTW - What special morals does the bible have? Seriously.
BTW - What special morals does the bible have? Seriously.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-11-22 at 00:32:04
Some teachings that the bible teaches christians is not to hate anyone and love everybody and also to forgive each other for their wrong actions. Those are the primary morals the Bible has that the nonreligious life doesn't.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Sie_Sayoka on 2005-11-22 at 05:11:11
Um... religion is a good thing....
1. Where would be the motivation of the great ancient civilizations? We would probolly be way behind in technology if it wasnt for religion.
2. Basically without religion our lives would have no meaning and we would be nothing when we die.
3. Many countries are founded on religion... actually it is what keeps it together.
PS. I FLUMPING HATE PEOPLE WHO QUOTE AND ADD A SMALL REPLY AND FILL UP THE PAGE WITH CRAP!
1. Where would be the motivation of the great ancient civilizations? We would probolly be way behind in technology if it wasnt for religion.
2. Basically without religion our lives would have no meaning and we would be nothing when we die.
3. Many countries are founded on religion... actually it is what keeps it together.
PS. I FLUMPING HATE PEOPLE WHO QUOTE AND ADD A SMALL REPLY AND FILL UP THE PAGE WITH CRAP!