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This entire thread is aimed at the problems religion causes and how we would be better off without it. Any of it. If you are easily offended by people insulting your religion in any way, shape, or form, please do not read this thread. If you wish to argue your point, please continue.

Religion is a burden on mankind. Any religion, this is not saying that one religion is right or one is wrong. They are all wrong. The only reason religion was created is to explain things we cannot understand. Now that science is progressing as such a rate, we are beginning to explain the things we previously did not understand. The only reason religion persists is the former generations.

I can guarantee most of the people who believe in any religion of any kind would not believe it had their parents, or any member of the generations before theirs, not taught it to them and enforced it upon them.

Religion causes problems. For instance, a great deal of America lawsuits involve religion.
An Example:
The Amish recently filed a lawsuit and won against the local school system for forcing their children to attend high school. Anybody that follows the Amish religion no longer mandatorily attends high school.

Now, should an Amish person change their faith, they will be unprepared for the outside world.

Another Example:
A child of 3 years of age was diagnosed with a life-threatening tumor. The surgery to remove the tumor had a very high success rate, but the parents refused to have the surgery done because they believed that 'God would heal their child'. So day after day, they prayed. A year later, the child died. A lawsuit was filed for manslaughter and child neglect by the doctor that had diagnosed the child. The parents were given no jail time, but their other children were required to receive vaccines and frequent check-ups.

And the last example would be the protests against stem-cell research, cloning, genetic-engineering, and abortion. This angers me the most, because I love to see science progress. Admitting, though, the protesters are not all founding their arguments on religion, but it does back a great deal of them.

Religion also begins Holy Wars, such as the Crusades and the ones that the various branches of Islam are fighting against one another. Nobody should ever die because of their beliefs. This includes the children that die because of a lack of medical aid.

Some argue that religion gives them morals and helps them succeed. I have met plenty of punks who wear a cross around their neck that end up as murderers, thieves, or muggers. In fact, some believe it is a part of Christianity to get drunk. This leads to DWI and various crimes committed due to their being drunk.

I, being somewhat of an atheist, am a nice guy. In fact, I am very generous towards people, even those I don't know, and have never committed a crime. And since I believe the only way to live past death is to be remembered, I am more motivated towards helping mankind.

Now I know it is very hard to sway a believer from their faith, but please, if you follow any religion, look at the evidence.

For any who believe in Creationism, please realize that God would not have created us with several superfluous ribs and an appendix that doesn't work.

It is my opinion, with no doubt in my mind, not from the deepest depths, that the world would be a better place without religion, of all shapes and forms. I don't mind religion, but when it starts hindering my scientific progress, taking lives, and just simply riddling the world with problems and arguments, it gets on my nerves.

Feel free to argue over this, but I don't think you can dig up any evidence on the other side...

While you read, I will be looking for sources...

I agree mostly with your statements, however, there are a small number of people in the world who really are so weak minded to need religion to uphold their morals, who need to be threatened with eternal suffering to make them follow a moral code. Some of them find religion and use it as a crutch per-se, it makes them think they have to act well, and help society, in order to live eternally in happieness, and frightens them away from negative behaviours, such as murder.
That being said, the majority of religious people would be fine without their religions, and there would be fewer wars without the extremists.
Quite frankly however, I wouldn't care at all if religion remained as long as the radicals all died out, most religious people are fairly resonable.

eternal life is a threat to me too.......who wants to live forever and know almost everything and know that some people are suffering eternally and know things making you unlike yourself? I dont

I feel as though people take religion way too seriously. You could say something that is christian but someone muslim could take it offensively even though there is a freedom of religion. People should ignore things like these because they can do it as well as others. Its not just christians that are allowed to talk about their religion to others part of that religion.

That's just ignorance. If they were true (Christians I'm assuming), they'd take the opputunity realizing that God had sent this surgery as a situation where it would heal their child.

Stem Cell research doesn't necessarily need to be embrionic.

That's a whole different society, if they were Christians, they'd not get into that stuff in the first place, so it's kinda like hypocrisy.

It was how you were raised. I've just noticed that Christians (or any religion for that matter) raised people tend to have more morals.

Amen to that.

All of your statements are quite interesting. Being a atheist myself, I think I will try to argue for god instead of against, just for the sake of a debate.

However, there are people that believe in god because of Pascals Argument (parents)

There is also the point of when the universe began. The motion (ie. big bang) had to be started by something/someone. There are no real solid theories rather than the existence of a god.

Pascal's Wager just reinforces my faith.

It's the people twisting religious principles that are causing the problems, not religion itself. There would be FAR less problems today if people abide by religion without twisting anything.


You know what's one basic teaching all religions teach? Not to Hate. Hate is the primary source for wars, pain, murder, racial discrimination, inequalities, adversities, and more. The Holy wars were started because of hate. That contradicts christianity so thats why me and many other individuals believe that the Crusades wasn't morally right. Religions, like christianity, teach people to love one another and forgive each other. If only everyone could simply stop hating each other and be forgiving, think about how much better the world would be.

The problem is, not many can do that. So the problem is the people's inability to achieve then, not religion itself.
But then you might say something like "But there are so many religions out there. Eventually, there's going to be disputes over which one is right." If someone doesn't want to convert, then fine, let them stick with their beliefs. That's what should happen. But there are just some people out there who would literally get all over your face for not believing in what they believe. No religion tells anyone to do this. It's the people that are choosing to make it violent, not the religion telling them to do it.

Religion gives people morals, in most cases, good ones, especially in moderates.

Imagine a world without religion. It would be a world without morals. You see, belief in god, heaven, and hell instills the belief in people that if they do something "bad" (such as murder someone or rape someone) they will go to hell. So they don't want to murder or rape people.

On the other hand, some people take religion too far, and we get the Crusades, we get 9/11, and we get the murder of Israeli Prime Minister Rabin.

Yea those are the extreme wacko Christians. Everyone else for the most part isnt a crazy wacko christian. So that example means nothing to me.

these wars were stupid. religion was just a motivator for the warriors. I bet the people running the crusades just wanted to conquer more land and tell the people fighting that God wills it.

-see the movie kingdom of heaven-


what about the other 239532895732027572382 people who arent crazt wacko killers?


People who are atheistic may have good morals also. i think that religion teaches it too or better.


oh so now religion is a terrible thing and kills people and hurts people? what r u talking about. u were talking about either way back in the crusades or these crazy punks.

At snake)ling-
Religion isn't the only way to gain good morals, most atheists arn't immoral people, why?, because we follow our own private moral codes.

Exactly. If parents taught the all but dead Golden Rule (Actually, that may have come from a religion ), and other morals without using religion to back their teachings, I'm sure that it would work just as well.

If you teach someone religion, but not its morals, it's worthless.
If you teach someone religion with its morals, it's a positive thing.
Or, you can teach someone morals, flat out, plain and simple.

I think that it's not religion that is the problem, but when people start twisting religion to gain control over others or justify their means, then it becomes a problem.

I think it may be oo late in the game to untwist it, though. Admittingly, religion was a very positive and helpful thing in the early 1900's or so. It did give them morals and motivation, but over the last century it has been twisted. The problem is, once you crimple up a paper, you cant get out all the wrinkles.

ADDITION:

It's called a conclusion, a summary. And didn't you read the first paragraph?

Despite my hatred of religion, I viewed it as necessary in certain places.

I've thought about the use of religion and how it could be used effectively to gain order. In most cases, I would fail. However, in certain parts of the world, where atheism is the dominant belief, I feel that those parts should have a religion.

The reason? They have nothing to fear. They have nothing to lose. This actually creates corruption and encourages bad manner.

I feel I'm qualified to say this because of my visit to China. People there need to be afraid of something in order to build up to a higher standard. I don't mean everyone should be religious; I mean everyone should at least go through with it to understand, then choose.

In America, however, corruption in religion has gone to high. That is why I'm against religion.

exactly.

My paretns never enforced anything on, they might be the least catholic people I know, but I'm still a firm believer.

Science can prove away many things, but I'll believe until it can prove what happens after the death of people.

I don't like racism but in some cases, it seems ok. Like when someone is racism to your religion, then i believe you have every right to either punch them or say something bad about their religion. "Freedom is what we obtained and we were all christians once..These people don't understand the word that gave us liberty."
Mp)Marine

Racism can't be against a religion. And didn't you read the first paragraph??

Sure... I'd like to see you say that to a Muslim or Budist.

Religions aren't race. You can't be racist against them.



Technically we were all once atheist.

Well put.

I think that religion is superflous. Sure, it teaches us morals, but morals can exist outside of religion. As such, religion has no unique benefits and many unique losses.

Pascal's Wager is plain wrong; it assumes way too much about God. That link basically pointed out most of the problems with Pascal's Wager.

I don't like Pascal's Wager. It's just another instance where religion is nothing more than a threat to keep one in line.

I'm a atheist and consider myself a fine person except for the fact that I'm very lazy. To me, religion is fine as long as you keep it to yourself and those that believe it. Its really annoying when people start bringing in religion into debates that have nothing to do with reliigon. Most religions say do good things and don't do bad things. To me, you don't need to be religous to understand those princables.

Religion guarantees justice. Tells us that the bad will NEVER meet the same ends as the good. The cheaters will NEVER meet the same end as the honest.

ONE reason why I believe in God.