Report, edit, etc...Posted by Azu on 2006-02-11 at 18:12:44
The so-called "Communism" that was tried in Russia before didn't work because it wasn't done right. There WAS a government. There WERE "High up" people lording over other people. Everything WASN'T destributed equally. It was all farked up lol
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-02-11 at 18:13:07
Uh jet blast the no speak part was directed at you mainly. Don't call me a kiddie as I am quite older then you.
Also, there can be order without government. You just prefer to have you parents spank you for saying "fark".
Heres a quote from an article on Anarchy.
BTW, I can pretty much gaurentee(SP?) that I know more about history then you. I've majored in it, studied it in and out of school. (which would be high school, not the elementary you attend) There was not an anarchist state ever in the USA's history because the simple fact there was a government STILL leading. No matter how much power is given to the people/states.
As you can see, your not as smart as you think you are. Now go play with the rest of your six grade pals. BTW, 3/4ths of your post had no argument at all and further proved the point. G'day mate.
Also, there can be order without government. You just prefer to have you parents spank you for saying "fark".
Heres a quote from an article on Anarchy.
QUOTE
What is anarchism?
Anarchism is a political theory which aims to create a society in which individuals freely co-operate together as equals without political, economic or social hierarchies. Anarchism essentially seeks to create a classless, stateless society, free of oppression and exploitation, that is organized and held together by the four principles; individual freedom, social and economic equality, free association, and mutual aid (i.e. cooperation and solidarity).
What isn't anarchism?
Anarchy does not mean chaos, crime, destruction or havoc. To the contrary, these have been the characteristics of political and economic hierarchies throughout history. One of the most common critiques of anarchism is that people "naturally" require hierarchal structures to govern society. However, every single hierarchal structure throughout history has burned to rubble. Not a single government nor empire has lasted more than a few hundred years. People have always rebelled against governments and hierarchal structures. Perhaps this is an obvious indication that people cannot sustain a natural equilibrium within society as long as hierarchy exists because as history has shown us, people will ALWAYS naturally rebel against them.
What type of society does Anarchism advocate?
Anarchism sees to create a society in which individuals can live independently from government and all top-down structures. We believe in mutual aid and cooperation. Anarchists believe in anti-authoritarian decision making, such as direct democracy. Direct democracy works off of consensus and more involves people expressing their ideas, opinions, concerns, criticism and suggestions about certain issues that effect that group of people. This is what makes direct democracy different than representative democracy. It eliminates all top-down hierarchical means of decision making. Many believe using consensus is naturally how humans work. For example, when you go out to see a movie with your friends you work on consensus.. You make a proposal by asking everyone, "what do you want to see?", and everyone decides. If there's a conflicting decision people usually talk about it. That's direct democracy. We do the same thing when we want to go out and eat for example. All these decisions effect us directly thus we engage in a format of a consensus decision making process so the decision can best fit our needs without excluding anyone's opinion or concerns from the group. This insures that everybody's voice is heard. Direct democracy also eliminates the top-down hierarchical in decision making format. People usually don't like it when another has the authority to make all decisions and boss everyone else around, therefore we naturally engage in consensus. Many anarchists believe that such behavior indicates that deep down inside we are all anarchists. Our behavior is so naturally anarchistic, that we don't even realize it.
So what do you want? Utopia? That's a dream. Nothing can be perfect!
Anarchism doesn't see to create the 'perfect society', but rather to achieve liberation by creating equality, education, and mutual cooperation. A community can achieve anarchism by declaring independence from statist capitalist forces by collectively organizing to form co-op networks to provide food, clothes and housing to the community. The Black Panthers and american Indian Movement demonstrated this in the late 60's and 70's. The only reason why they failed is because the FBI/CIA' cointelpro (counterintelligence program) neutralized revolutionary communities by means of chemical warfare.. and that today is one of the biggest problems we still face in our communities because of cointelpro.
Anarchism is a political theory which aims to create a society in which individuals freely co-operate together as equals without political, economic or social hierarchies. Anarchism essentially seeks to create a classless, stateless society, free of oppression and exploitation, that is organized and held together by the four principles; individual freedom, social and economic equality, free association, and mutual aid (i.e. cooperation and solidarity).
What isn't anarchism?
Anarchy does not mean chaos, crime, destruction or havoc. To the contrary, these have been the characteristics of political and economic hierarchies throughout history. One of the most common critiques of anarchism is that people "naturally" require hierarchal structures to govern society. However, every single hierarchal structure throughout history has burned to rubble. Not a single government nor empire has lasted more than a few hundred years. People have always rebelled against governments and hierarchal structures. Perhaps this is an obvious indication that people cannot sustain a natural equilibrium within society as long as hierarchy exists because as history has shown us, people will ALWAYS naturally rebel against them.
What type of society does Anarchism advocate?
Anarchism sees to create a society in which individuals can live independently from government and all top-down structures. We believe in mutual aid and cooperation. Anarchists believe in anti-authoritarian decision making, such as direct democracy. Direct democracy works off of consensus and more involves people expressing their ideas, opinions, concerns, criticism and suggestions about certain issues that effect that group of people. This is what makes direct democracy different than representative democracy. It eliminates all top-down hierarchical means of decision making. Many believe using consensus is naturally how humans work. For example, when you go out to see a movie with your friends you work on consensus.. You make a proposal by asking everyone, "what do you want to see?", and everyone decides. If there's a conflicting decision people usually talk about it. That's direct democracy. We do the same thing when we want to go out and eat for example. All these decisions effect us directly thus we engage in a format of a consensus decision making process so the decision can best fit our needs without excluding anyone's opinion or concerns from the group. This insures that everybody's voice is heard. Direct democracy also eliminates the top-down hierarchical in decision making format. People usually don't like it when another has the authority to make all decisions and boss everyone else around, therefore we naturally engage in consensus. Many anarchists believe that such behavior indicates that deep down inside we are all anarchists. Our behavior is so naturally anarchistic, that we don't even realize it.
So what do you want? Utopia? That's a dream. Nothing can be perfect!
Anarchism doesn't see to create the 'perfect society', but rather to achieve liberation by creating equality, education, and mutual cooperation. A community can achieve anarchism by declaring independence from statist capitalist forces by collectively organizing to form co-op networks to provide food, clothes and housing to the community. The Black Panthers and american Indian Movement demonstrated this in the late 60's and 70's. The only reason why they failed is because the FBI/CIA' cointelpro (counterintelligence program) neutralized revolutionary communities by means of chemical warfare.. and that today is one of the biggest problems we still face in our communities because of cointelpro.
QUOTE
I think you need to brush up on a little history, the whole idea revolving aronud the creation of America was that rules were too strict and that power should be given to everyone instead of one person. By the way, if something has "FAQ" labeled at the top of it, that doesn't make it true.
BTW, I can pretty much gaurentee(SP?) that I know more about history then you. I've majored in it, studied it in and out of school. (which would be high school, not the elementary you attend) There was not an anarchist state ever in the USA's history because the simple fact there was a government STILL leading. No matter how much power is given to the people/states.
As you can see, your not as smart as you think you are. Now go play with the rest of your six grade pals. BTW, 3/4ths of your post had no argument at all and further proved the point. G'day mate.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Arbitrary on 2006-02-11 at 18:14:51
QUOTE(Azu @ Feb 11 2006, 06:12 PM)
The so-called "Communism" that was tried in Russia before didn't work because it wasn't done right. There WAS a government. There WERE "High up" people lording over other people. Everything WASN'T destributed equally. It was all farked up lol
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That's the result of the ideal. If you look back to the October Revolution in 1917, everyone was "equal." China? It's a "Communist" state, which really means it's a moderate fascist regime.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Azu on 2006-02-11 at 18:16:23
Everything that has been done on this world that has been simular to real "Communism" wasn't done right and ended up being screwed because of government... which goes against the whole thing entirely and screws it up and makes everyone unhappy and stuff.. 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Arbitrary on 2006-02-11 at 18:18:18
...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Azu on 2006-02-11 at 18:22:27
o rly!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-02-11 at 18:24:01
Thats it azu... i'm fed up with you! You forgot the owl picture!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Azu on 2006-02-11 at 18:25:24
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-02-11 at 18:33:07
LOL
back on topic now lol
back on topic now lol
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-02-11 at 19:12:53
I could care less about the big A subject.
I just get annoyed by poeple in my school who are like "Yeah!!! Anarchy rules!!! Woo HOOO!!!
And then I ask them if they know what it is, and they are like "....."
I just get annoyed by poeple in my school who are like "Yeah!!! Anarchy rules!!! Woo HOOO!!!
And then I ask them if they know what it is, and they are like "....."
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Azu on 2006-02-11 at 19:18:14
So what?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-02-12 at 15:57:13
I think Hobbes and Rousseau talked about this. (I may have gotten the names mixed up)
Hobbes said that people are inherently evil, and society forces them to be good to eachother. So according to him in anarchy people would just descend into chaos and violence. I think this would be the case, as people are inherently selfish and greedy.
Rousseau (I apologize for misspellings of that name) said that people are inherently good, and society forces them to do evil things to provide for themselves. This seems to me like an aloof standpoint of happy-go-luckiness. The overwhelming majority of people aren't nice. They are selfish, greedy and shortsighted.
Anarchy = Failure.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Aikanaro on 2006-02-12 at 16:27:50
The group of people that some are talking about in order to discredit Anarchy, is the minority. People wouldn't throw a grenade or kill anyone randomly. Do you know anyone who would really? If anything, they are the minority and should not be used to discredit the whole of Anarchy. Most of you watch the news and whatnot. The media emphasizes on any news of injust random violence someone commited. They make us think this is always happening and in large quantity. Though this is not the truth. Let me ask you this: Would you seriously go chaotic and do anything that pops into your head because authority hasn't forged any consequences? I'm sure there is some people that might, though they are far from being the majority.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-02-12 at 16:29:53
Intelligence is in the minority.
Common sense is in the minority.
Therefore stupidity and rashness are in the majority.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Aikanaro on 2006-02-12 at 16:43:34
QUOTE(Demaris @ Feb 12 2006, 04:29 PM)
Intelligence is in the minority.
Common sense is in the minority.
Therefore stupidity and rashness are in the majority.
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Oh, fancy words. How did you come upon concluding this? Sure not everyone is outstandingly smart or is capable of using common sense in every situation. Though, let me assure you we aren't all morally disturbed. Most of if not 99.999% of the people would be able to tell right from wrong. That is, being able to determine whether or not to murder someone on the spot or not. The media has been working endlessly to this day, to brainwash us. They show us crimes and violence here and there. Though they're falsely making us think these things happen all the time and everywhere. Since they always emphazise on it. When in reality, they grab everything they can find out of the short list of random violence they're able to obtain. We wouldn't commit crimes randomly for no reason. If anything, it would be the extreme minority. I don't think you would do this, nor would I.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-02-12 at 16:49:09
QUOTE
Most of if not 99.999% of the people would be able to tell right from wrong.
Oh, Yes. That is why America is in the current state of decadence, hedonism, and moral decay.
QUOTE
Though, let me assure you we aren't all morally disturbed
Yet in schools it is taught that might makes right. I think that is a bit disturbed.
QUOTE
falsively
Nice word
QUOTE
The media has been working endlessly to this day, to brainwash us.
Nice way to not make it the people's fault.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shapechanger on 2006-02-12 at 18:00:46
Okay, let's imagine Anarchy works. Let's imagine that everybody has a soul of gold, and they live in a crime-free utopia without the need of laws.
Now let's compare this to reality.
Honestly, I see a compatability issue with this one.
Now let's compare this to reality.
Honestly, I see a compatability issue with this one.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-02-12 at 18:02:39
Exactly what i've been saying.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-02-12 at 20:46:29
It\'s real cute seeing all you guys parading around covered in the Anarchy is Order symbol, but did you even know that\'s what it meant? I didn\'t think so.
You people are too ignorant of the basic framework of Anarchy to ever hold an intelligent discussion of it\'s workings. You\'re mixing up the true meaning of the word, \"Absence of a ruler\", with the media\'s common misrepresentation. People like to use Anarchy to describe chaos, but that is in fact the exact opposite of the true meaning. It\'s a society without rulers, not without rules.
Just because there\'s no system of hierarchical control to opress you, doesn\'t mean everyone is going to revert to cavemen. You\'re saying that right now everyone stays civil just because there\'s a \'system\'? This \'system\' that you\'ve come to depend upon hurts you more than you realise. You\'ll never know how held back you actually are in that type of society. This doesn\'t just go for governmental hierarchy, but every aspect of life, from economical to simple social supression. Anarchy means much more than just \'no government\', it\'s an opposition of all forms of opression and control.
An Anarchist society works on the principle of VOLUNTARY cooperation. Liberty and equality are the two most important words you\'ll need to know when learning about Anarchy. Right now, you are NOT free. You are being denied your liberties, you are NOT equal. Anarchy is a form of socialism and of communism. Libertarian Socialism or Libertarian Communism are essentially Anarchism. \'Libertarian\' stands for a belief in free will, the freedom of thought and action. \'Socialism\' describes a social system where producers of necessities are not controled by the state, an opposition to Capitalism.
All people on this earth should be able to know the difference between right and wrong, but sadly current society is slowly graying the line. Just because no one is there to enforce the rules, doesn\'t mean they don\'t exist. Anarchy is not something that can just be dropped into place to fix the outdated system. When Communism was attempted, it had excellent planning, but poor execution.
This post doesn\'t even begin to wash away the stink of ignorance that I felt saturate my mind while reading this thread.
You people are too ignorant of the basic framework of Anarchy to ever hold an intelligent discussion of it\'s workings. You\'re mixing up the true meaning of the word, \"Absence of a ruler\", with the media\'s common misrepresentation. People like to use Anarchy to describe chaos, but that is in fact the exact opposite of the true meaning. It\'s a society without rulers, not without rules.
Just because there\'s no system of hierarchical control to opress you, doesn\'t mean everyone is going to revert to cavemen. You\'re saying that right now everyone stays civil just because there\'s a \'system\'? This \'system\' that you\'ve come to depend upon hurts you more than you realise. You\'ll never know how held back you actually are in that type of society. This doesn\'t just go for governmental hierarchy, but every aspect of life, from economical to simple social supression. Anarchy means much more than just \'no government\', it\'s an opposition of all forms of opression and control.
An Anarchist society works on the principle of VOLUNTARY cooperation. Liberty and equality are the two most important words you\'ll need to know when learning about Anarchy. Right now, you are NOT free. You are being denied your liberties, you are NOT equal. Anarchy is a form of socialism and of communism. Libertarian Socialism or Libertarian Communism are essentially Anarchism. \'Libertarian\' stands for a belief in free will, the freedom of thought and action. \'Socialism\' describes a social system where producers of necessities are not controled by the state, an opposition to Capitalism.
All people on this earth should be able to know the difference between right and wrong, but sadly current society is slowly graying the line. Just because no one is there to enforce the rules, doesn\'t mean they don\'t exist. Anarchy is not something that can just be dropped into place to fix the outdated system. When Communism was attempted, it had excellent planning, but poor execution.
This post doesn\'t even begin to wash away the stink of ignorance that I felt saturate my mind while reading this thread.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-02-12 at 20:47:59
QUOTE
When Communism was attempted, it had excellent planning, but poor execution.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marx was a terrible economist.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-02-12 at 21:09:48
QUOTE(warhammer40000)
See, i hate when people do that. I really do. When someone makes one or more completely good points about someone, and maybe (And mostly they dont anyway, but that person still picks it out) exaggerate one thing, and then they just pick out the one thing they said and forget about the rest.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-02-12 at 21:40:23
I hate it when people just quote others without having some coherent thoughts for themselves.
I'll make a more detailed post if you want it. I was rushed at that time.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Azu on 2006-02-12 at 23:43:23
I hate it when people flame each-other and go off-topic for no reason.
Anarchy itself DOES rock, the problem is the majority of the population would wreck havoc if there was anarchy, due to low self control. George bush would probably get so fat he'd die of a heart attack, which would be good I guess.
Anarchy itself DOES rock, the problem is the majority of the population would wreck havoc if there was anarchy, due to low self control. George bush would probably get so fat he'd die of a heart attack, which would be good I guess.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shapechanger on 2006-02-13 at 07:54:04
I'm very confused as to how a country without a 'ruler' would function. You could not have perfect equality amongst the people because in order to do just about anything there must be a leader.
How will you manage your military, for one, if there are no generals and only footmen?
How will you manage your military, for one, if there are no generals and only footmen?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Azu on 2006-02-13 at 07:58:36
Everyone would have an equal say on how things would work
And there wouldn't BE any wars. That's the point.
And there wouldn't BE any wars. That's the point.