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Staredit Network -> Website Feedback, Bugs & Discussion -> This is a mapping community
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-05-28 at 07:30:39
Yes it will give minerals to people who comment review maps. I think that was part of DK's idea. By doing so it would cut minerals for people who doesn't post in map forums at all. And thats the point. wink.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-05-28 at 07:35:17
Okay, so you would give minerals to people in a map making forum who just posts, "Good Job, Good Luck with other maps!" But you wouldnt give minerals to people in Lite Discussion and Serious Discussion that are actually giving their opinion to something in the world or Starcraft related topics!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-05-28 at 07:50:25
Starcraft related topics goes in Freelancers forum not in discusion forums. So it's ok.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Golden-Fist on 2006-05-28 at 08:31:43
QUOTE
    * Mapping forums = mineral forums
    * Other forums = no mineral forums
    * Reward people who finish a good map with minerals.
    * Reward new concepts with minerals
    * And so on... tongue.gif

That's basically what was suggested. And that'd just cause more spam in the mapping fourms, since people won't make maps, just post random crap about some map that they have no idea what it's about. If you force people to do things, things go wrong, or badly. You can't just tell people what to do, you have to persuade them.

And I liked those Random Map Facts as well, it was intresting to know some stuff like how there's no location 35 or something.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-05-28 at 08:55:13
QUOTE(DEAD @ May 28 2006, 10:22 AM)

  • Reward new concepts with minerals

[right][snapback]494304[/snapback][/right]


This will make a lot of work for the staff members. You can't give the same amount of minerals for all ideas. The staff members need to read every post and rate the idea it contains. If it is a brilliant & original idea, give a lot of minerals. Not much minerals for a medium idea, & a small amount of minerals for not a cool idea. But how to determine if it is a great idea or not ? Different members may have different opinions about the same idea.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-05-28 at 09:02:42
Since when member opinions count? ANd that wouldn't be any forcing people to post in mapping forums, it would motivate them to do so. And for random crap, rules about spam are still there wink.gif

Anyway, thats just a suggestion, stop being so negative about everything golden... tongue.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Golden-Fist on 2006-05-28 at 09:34:13
QUOTE(DEAD @ May 28 2006, 08:02 AM)
Since when member opinions count? ANd that wouldn't be any forcing people to post in mapping forums, it would motivate them to do so. And for random crap, rules about spam are still there wink.gif

Anyway, thats just a suggestion, stop being so negative about everything golden... tongue.gif[right][snapback]494392[/snapback][/right]

I'm only negative towards ideas that suck. Perhaps you'd like me to not tell you how it sucks and then when you try it out it doesn't work and you'll wonder "OH MEY GAWD WUT HEUPPNED?!NZON".

Whether or not the rules of spam are still there, you'd be getting thigns like "THIS LOOKS GUD" "I CENT WUIT 4 DA MEP" and "GOUD LUCK" every single post since people want to get posts or minerals all the time. And if you can't see that fatal flaw in your little idea than you have some serious problems.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-05-28 at 10:08:30
If you didn't notice, all mapmaking forums are already mineral forums except ideas. And I believe retards you are speaking of doesn't spam because of minerals but because they are retarded. And I doubt that normal people will start to post like retards just to get minerals. Beside 1 or 2 retarded post like those per topic is nothing comparing to null and other forums where whole topics are retarded as hell.

The general idea is to make "Other" forums non mineral and to reward members who produce good maps. I see no "fatal flaw" in there at all. maybe thats because I don't have your negativity talent. Who knows. ermm.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Golden-Fist on 2006-05-28 at 11:48:05
QUOTE(DEAD @ May 28 2006, 09:08 AM)
I see no "fatal flaw" in there at all. maybe thats because I don't have your negativity talent. Who knows. ermm.gif[right][snapback]494433[/snapback][/right]

Are you serious?
QUOTE(DEAD)
And I believe retards you are speaking of doesn't spam because of minerals but because they are retarded. And I doubt that normal people will start to post like retards just to get minerals. Beside 1 or 2 retarded post like those per topic is nothing comparing to null and other forums where whole topics are retarded as hell.

Just wow, wow.
I never said that people who already post there would suddenly become under a mind control and act retarded. I'm talking about the +1000 members that DON'T post there, and they post in the other section for minerals and posts. If they wanted those they would have to psot in the maping place saying stupid stuff that wasn't relavant to the topic or very blanant spam like posts like "GUD JEUB". Maybe if you weren't too busy trying to lie to yourself that I'm always wrong you'd realize that your idea is stupid and won't work.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by L-inspecteur_Chocolat on 2006-05-28 at 12:01:40
Well it's simple. Spam = ban.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-05-28 at 12:25:48
QUOTE(L-inspecteur_Chocolat @ May 28 2006, 07:01 PM)
Well it's simple. Spam = ban.
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No it's not that simple. The Admin's don't want it that way, they think it's too harsh.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-05-28 at 12:33:20
QUOTE(Golden-Fist @ May 28 2006, 06:47 PM)

Are you serious?
QUOTE(DEAD)
And I believe retards you are speaking of doesn't spam because of minerals but because they are retarded. And I doubt that normal people will start to post like retards just to get minerals. Beside 1 or 2 retarded post like those per topic is nothing comparing to null and other forums where whole topics are retarded as hell.

Just wow, wow.
I never said that people who already post there would suddenly become under a mind control and act retarded. I'm talking about the +1000 members that DON'T post there, and they post in the other section for minerals and posts. If they wanted those they would have to psot in the maping place saying stupid stuff that wasn't relavant to the topic or very blanant spam like posts like "GUD JEUB". Maybe if you weren't too busy trying to lie to yourself that I'm always wrong you'd realize that your idea is stupid and won't work.
[right][snapback]494490[/snapback][/right]

It may as well be that talking to me is like talking to a wall, hey I might as well change my name to "wall" but that not the point. At least I'm not posting total bullcrap that doesn't make any sense just to opposite whatever I suggested. This is supposed to be a discussion not a fight club.

Name at least 10 active member that post just to raise their post count and minerals in the "other" forums, not to mention 1000+. Rolf dude, we don't even have 1000 active members. The fatal flaw about how 1000+ people will start spam mapmaking forums is just ridiculous....
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Centreri on 2006-05-28 at 12:42:24
You want to force people to post in Mapping forums just so they can openly and easily communicate with other people en masse?
QUOTE(DEAD)
I say reward people for mapmaking to motivate them.

    * Mapping forums = mineral forums
    * Other forums = no mineral forums
    * Reward people who finish a good map with minerals.
    * Reward new concepts with minerals
    * And so on... tongue.gif


By doing so, members who will be active in mapping forums and will produce good maps will be richer than "other" crew. I say it's a good solution teehee.gif

Very good idea, but I would keep Lite Discussion and Serious Discussion mineral
forums. Minerals FTW tongue.gif! And I don't think anyone thinks minerals are completely pointless. Most newbies judge a member by how many minerals they have; I did that before tongue.gif.

I say that forcing people to post in Mapping forums would make SEN significantly weaker; people posting 'pretend' help topics just to get posts, increasing spamming, etc. SEN isn't filled with saints, you know :/.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-05-28 at 14:45:45
QUOTE(Merrell @ May 28 2006, 02:30 AM)
I liked the random map making tip that used to be at the top of the website. Added variety, and it increased my knowledge in map making, allowing me to help more people in the map making assistance. What evil being removed it!?

http://www.staredit.net/moose/tips.txt
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2006-05-28 at 15:48:43
QUOTE(Merrell @ May 28 2006, 01:30 AM)
I liked the random map making tip that used to be at the top of the website. Added variety, and it increased my knowledge in map making, allowing me to help more people in the map making assistance. What evil being removed it!?
[right][snapback]494292[/snapback][/right]

I think I asked Yoshi to remove it a looooooong time ago. I don't remember exactly why, but I was quite different back then. I wouldn't mind having them back again now.

QUOTE(DEAD @ May 28 2006, 02:22 AM)
I say reward people for mapmaking to motivate them. 

  • Mapping forums = mineral forums
  • Other forums = no mineral forums
  • Reward people who finish a good map with minerals.
  • Reward new concepts with minerals
  • And so on... tongue.gif

By doing so, members who will be active in mapping forums and will produce good maps will be richer than "other" crew. I say it's a good solution teehee.gif
[right][snapback]494304[/snapback][/right]

Could be good, but bad as well. Anything which incites people to post more in the mapping forums only for the purpose of post counts or minerals and not actual mapping will eventually lead to spamming.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by xMCx on 2006-05-28 at 16:41:15
I'm slightly in favor of removing the null forum. It would help if it was changed to other, because hopefully it wouldn't have as many worthless topics.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2006-05-28 at 16:43:41
If I was forced to choose one forum to remove in the "Other" section, I'd remove the Serious Discussion forum. I don't see much community bonding there; if anything I see mostly community disbonding there, because of conflicting opinions and beliefs.

At least people most of the time have fun in the Lite and Null forums.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cloud on 2006-05-28 at 16:49:36
QUOTE(MillenniumArmy @ May 28 2006, 08:43 PM)
If I was forced to choose one forum to remove in the "Other" section, I'd remove the Serious Discussion forum. I don't see much community bonding there; if anything I see mostly community disbonding there, because of conflicting opinions and beliefs.

At least people most of the time have fun in the Lite and Null forums.
[right][snapback]494715[/snapback][/right]



I agree, nothing good comes from the serious discussion. But then if it was removed I have a funny feeling they'd start posting the questions in lite discussion or Null.

On another note I think we're kinda lacking in encouragement in the map making forums. If you take the time and check the map making assistance forums then you'll notice that most questions aren't met with the answer. Most of the time they're met with about 6-7 posts of other suggestions on what they can do and wait till that 10th post or so for that one map maker that knows how to do it to post the answer that person was seeking. Then if you check the map making productions every 1 in like 5-10 posts theres a person saying "YOU SUCK AT LIFE GO DIE!!$!." Nice encouragement there wouldn't you all agree? We're putting other peoples maps down probably more then we're encouraging and/or offering help on them. Thats definately NOT a good thing.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Urmom(U) on 2006-05-28 at 18:21:40
Maybe you should make it so that you don't get cumulative posts in the light discussion or serious discussion, only in the map making forums. I would also have to agree with removing the serious discussion forum. Maybe the mineral amount for the map making assistance forum and map showcase forum could be boosted to get more people to post in there too.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Golden-Fist on 2006-05-28 at 21:04:47
QUOTE(DEAD)
I'm a moron who instead of realizing what's wrong with my idea and trying to fix it, I instead try insulting the person who is obviously crushing my argument.

There's no way that idea will actually work.


QUOTE(MillenniumArmy @ May 28 2006, 02:48 PM)
Could be good, but bad as well. Anything which incites people to post more in the mapping forums only for the purpose of post counts or minerals and not actual mapping will eventually lead to spamming.[right][snapback]494683[/snapback][/right]

DEAD this is the sugar coded version of what I'm saying. Forcing people to post somewhere won't make them like maps, it'll make them pretend to like maps so they get some stupid crap like the 3,000 mineral club and laugh in everyone's faces.

Deleteing the Serious Discussion fourm won't do anything either. It'll just change the location of what's said there. If it's in Null though people will be like "LOL WAR IS FUNIE" and more flamming will start.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by in_a_biskit on 2006-05-29 at 09:04:31
A quick way for some of those who want to encourage more map-making and participation in map-making forums to start would be to give such incentives themselves. As well as setting an example by mapping or posting in mapping forums, give minerals as a form of 'kudos', the same way you might give karma in v5, to people for making good posts in the mapping forums. A lot of you have very many minerals (and even if you don't...), and don't do much with them - why not use them to encourage other members?

Or, use them to hold another mapping tournament (not necessarily 'officially' supported by Moose et al.) - I think it'd be great to have multiple mapping contests running simultaneously, so people can join whichever one(s) they like - you'd probably also save the waiting time for the results of each competition by giving people something else to work on if they want.

And if a few people start doing these things proactively, the administration will probably be more likely to help support them.

Of course, if you don't want to, there's no pressure on you to do anything of the sort. But for those who do want to encourage the mapping community, think of the things that you can do yourself to help.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2006-05-29 at 10:25:38
I made a suggestion about a "Map of the Two Weeks" a while ago:
QUOTE(first post)
I really suggest we do something called a "Map of the Week"

- On sites like http://www.broodwarmaps.net we do a map of the week with melee maps, where many of us get together and take a vote on which map we think is best. We can do the same with UMS maps.
- Last time I was told by minimoose that we had the Map Spotlight. But the problem with those is that they really don't seem to change. They're basically reserved for contest winners.

QUOTE(After being told you can just simply change spotlight)
Yea, but if you look on http://www.broodwarmaps.net the way they do it gives more attention to those maps because they don''t just only update their MotW list.

They also have a section on the right side saying MotW: (map name), but what makes their MotWs so special is that they actually make newsposts about them. Then people can comment and be like "Congrats so and so," just like as if minimoose made a post for the results of a map making competition. This'll make the MotW system even more special and have people be like "Wow, cool, I really want to have my map receive such recognition." If we make tihs like a mini-map making competition, it'll incite more people to make maps and thus, wanting to submit them to our MotW Competition.
Just updating the map spotlight is boring. It's like giving out 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places but without any ceremonies. What's the use of getting 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place if you receive barely, if any, attention for it? What I mean by attention is where people can actually say/respond to the results on the newspost or w/e. We need to do more than just change the map spotlight, we need to somehow bring more attention to those maps that make it into the map spotlights.



This is one reason why I seem to nowadays spend less time with SEN and spend more if it at BWMN, because at BWMN, they have competitions every week (mainly the MotW) and everyday we users can discuss the maps and vote on which one gets MotW. Everyone there is alway eager to know which map is going to get MotW, and there's this atmosphere there where people want that attention, want their map and their pictured posted on the frontpage of that website. It's almost never boring at BWMN when it comes to the SC/map making world there. It's kind of like our SEN games; it's something we all want to win/participate in. Making a MotW system like the one at BWMN here will create that incentive.

QUOTE(People wondered if there will be enough maps)
Once we announce this Map of the Week (or Month) system, people will eventually start pumping out maps. It might take a couple of these competitions to actually get the whole thing really kicking, but like with the one at BWMN, it'll become serious business.

It's because of the MotW system there which I really got into making serious melee maps; I want my melee maps to become MotW.

QUOTE(After DTBK and others say that Map of the Month is better)
BWMN's motw system works where starting on monday, you can submit whatever maps you want to the MOTW competition list. The deadline is on friday and then you have from that day till sunday to discuss amongst yourselves the order of your preferences (like #1, 2, 3 candidates.) Then on monday, we count up the votes and usually (but not always) make the map with the most votes the MotW and have somebody make a cool newspost about it.

So I guess that if we do a MotM (map of the month system) I guess we can make the deadline to enter the maps 1 week before the last day of the month and during that one week, we can play the maps and discuss which ones should be best. There will be no grading rubric or any criterion for these maps; you just simply pick the one you like best or is worthy of a MotS. Maybe we can make an official specially made poll or something (now I said special mainly so that we can also make sure people don't cheat in voting with double accounts.)

EDIT: Well actually, scratch the poll. Just make it discuss only. We'll give everybody the chance to discuss/share their opinions on the map and then a selected few people (probably us staff members) will make the official pick based on how the comments turned out to be.
(This method will reduce as much bias in the map picking, because I know there are PLENTY of people out there who will blatantly exclaim that a person's map sucks or that they show major favortism based on who the authors are.)

QUOTE(After someone suggest map of the Two weeks is better)
Yea I prefer every two weeks rather than one month. It's a little more frequent and doesn't completely put a person down if he misses the deadline and has to wait another month to enter the next one.

It's not like your time in making a map for this competition is constrained to only two weeks. You can spend however long you want on it, and when it's done, submit it to the current Map of the (Two) Week competition that's in progress.

I REALLY think this is a good idea.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-05-29 at 11:16:29
QUOTE(Golden-Fist @ May 29 2006, 04:04 AM)
DEAD this is the sugar coded version of what I'm saying. Forcing people to post somewhere won't make them like maps, it'll make them pretend to like maps so they get some stupid crap like the 3,000 mineral club and laugh in everyone's faces.

Deleteing the Serious Discussion fourm won't do anything either. It'll just change the location of what's said there. If it's in Null though people will be like "LOL WAR IS FUNIE" and more flamming will start.
[right][snapback]494876[/snapback][/right]

What argument? What forcing? As always when I show that your bloody "argument" is actually nothing important, you stop arguing and post something like that. Go ahead, I don't care about your thought's at all, just don't call me moron just because you can't "win" a fight you started. /rolf
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Golden-Fist on 2006-05-29 at 11:21:45
QUOTE(DEAD @ May 29 2006, 10:16 AM)
What argument? What forcing? As always when I show that your bloody "argument" is actually nothing important, you stop arguing and post something like that. Go ahead, I don't care about your thought's at all, just don't call me moron just because you can't "win" a fight you started. /rolf[right][snapback]495192[/snapback][/right]

So you just signed yourself to blocking out anything I say because you don't like me. Or what anyone says (Like MillenniumArmy because he said the same exact thing, incae you forget it's right here) becuase you believe that all your plans are 100% Fool proof. Don't suggest crap if you can't take in critism. Your hard headed attitude is useless when suggesting ideas.

I didn't read everything MA posted but it sounds pretty good from a quick skim.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-05-29 at 11:48:23
You know there is a big difference in criticism and your argument syntax...
CODE
<G-F post>Your idea sucks <random stuff without any ground> <another one></G-F post>

<DEAD>Argument </DEAD>

<G-F>Ignore argument <samerandom stuff as before></G-F>

Maybe try to put some ground on your proof, like I asked to name at least 10 people who would spam as you said not to mention 1000+, you replay with "Well, it still suck" and call me moron.

BTW, what is supposed to be "critism", how can I not take it when I don't even know what is it tongue.gif
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