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Staredit Network -> UMS Production -> Rush Ep.2 Preconception
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-15 at 01:32:38
I was afraid of that. tongue.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by devilesk on 2006-07-15 at 01:47:21
Lol! Ah yes, the multiplayer problem with dark swarm tongue.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by empty on 2006-07-15 at 01:59:18
I haven't really started in-depth playing Ep. 1, but I guess here are some of my suggestions.

-Storyline: Who are you, and why were YOU picked to stop the baddies? So in other words, a complex, plot-twisting, thrilling story-line would be cool.
-Coop: If it is more story-based, introduce a new character. If the character from the first is a guy, the I would preferably introduce a female character. Maybe some love connections?
-Path: If it is Coop, have the characters have seperate paths in the beginning, but then interloop during the game; in and out. However, I think it would be cool if you got to pick where you were going, which would lead to a story and coop interaction change. A too open map, though, would feel too much like an Open RPG.
-Ammunition: Definently not unlimited. I think there are three basic ways you could get ammo; dropped by baddie, storage, bought.
-Time: I liked the time limit. It connected with the "Rush" title, and that made me laugh.
-Missions: In the mission areas, or stages, you could have one basic mission objective, but I agree, side objectives would be cool and could add to gameplay. The side objectives wouldn't be needed to complete the level, but you could get money or like a new weapon from them.
-Explosive Barrels: HELLS YES!!! That's tight. Lol.

Well those are my insights, hope to see Rush Ep. 2 soon!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by slayer766 on 2006-07-15 at 02:24:18
Oh really Tux? tongue.gif


Q: Did it bug you too much in Ep.1 to have only one path to go by?
A: No, one path was good enough for me.


QUOTE
...or should I create (as best I can) two seperate tracks of gameplay to accomodate single player (which'll likely be more story-based and permit more 'intimate' gameplay) in one, and coop (or even DM) with another (which'd likely just be an abbreviated single player)?

You should do that right there, multiplayer is ALWAYS fun since people always want to play fun maps with their friends. smile.gif


QUOTE
Should weapons and stuff use only limited ammo each, unlimited ammo with reloads (like Ep.1), unlimited ammo altogether, or weapon-specific implementations of ammo (like certain weapons use limited clips, some draw from a full source, some regenerate slowly over time, etc.)?

Weapon-specific would be awesome and more realistic, but that would be triple the work/trigs. sad.gif So maybe just unlimited ammo, like how it is now. smile.gif


Q: Limited lives, no lives (one death = bye bye), unlimited lives (ala Ep.1)?
A: Limited lives. Unlimited lives gives someone the chance the maybe slack off in the game thinking they will never lose so they tend to turn away from using their full skillz! So placing a limit there would make them much better. wink.gif


Q: Single time limit (ala Ep.1), area/mission-based time limits, or none at all?
A: Area/mission-based time limits.


Q: Money for kills, money for time, or money per area beaten?
A: Money per area beaten. cool1.gif That would just be best, I think.


Q: Customizability/upgrades for everything and the kitchen sink, upgrades for only key weapons/stats/abilities, upgrades only for primary stats, or screw the upgrades I just want to kill stuff without that nonsense to worry about?
A: Customizability/upgrades for everything and the kitchen sink, only if it can fit. wink.gif


Q: Your choice of 3: Purchaseable weapons/upgrades/etc. (ala Ep.1) only, findable weapons/upgrades/etc. only, or weapons/upgrades awarded per area/sequence only?
A: Weapons/upgrades awarded per area/sequence only would be something cool to have.


Q: Simple monsters taking no more than 3-5 hits with reasonable upgrades to make a kill (ala Ep.1), or complex monsters with full-fledged VHP and trigger-enhanced behavior?
A: Simple monsters taking no more than 3-5 hits with reasonable upgrades to make a kill. wink.gif


Q: Long and involving (5-10 hours), or short and intense (1-3 hours)?
A: Short and intense, since it is RUSH. wink.gif


Q: Short novel (characters, plot twists, drama, etc.), 5 page fanfic (good vs. evil... maybe a plot twist or a few manditory characters), weekend comic strip (basically like Ep.1 is now), or one-liner ("I maked the bad peoples fall downs!")?
A: Short novel would just do fine for me.


Thats MAH feedback. biggrin.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-07-15 at 02:29:31
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
Linearity: Should I focus Ep.2 on having as tight of a gameplay experience as possible along a linear path (ala Ep.1), or should I spread things out and give the player some room with a more non-linear design?  Both routes would probably be just as much work/complexity, but if I made the map non-linear it might yield less "epic" gameplay, whereas a more linear design might seem more constraining.

I think you should have it linear - don't smear the dinner on the table, leave in on the plate. "Concentrate" the tension. But I would like to see little breaks between time-limited tasks... if I want to go to the toilet or make myself some tea ? tongue.gif
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
[*]Multiplayer: Should I focus on:


    As tight of a single player experience as possible.

    A slightly looser gameplay experience to allow for limited multiplayer (like the unfinished gunner/bomber thing I was aiming for with Ep.1).
    Open things up totally to enable full multiplayer (multiple gunners/bombers), potentially relegating all "epic"ness to fixed cutscenes or wildly complex (and harder and more time-consuming) implementations?



...or should I create (as best I can) two seperate tracks of gameplay to accomodate single player (which'll likely be more story-based and permit more 'intimate' gameplay) in one, and coop (or even DM) with another (which'd likely just be an abbreviated single player)?

Maximum single player tension. Why:

-multiplayer in this map would mean problems with "I'm afk"
-Again, don't smear the dinner tongue.gif
-Communication with another human in game may make it more interesting, but if you make the gameplay intense, you don't need the second player

QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
Ammo/Mana/Charges/etc.:  Should weapons and stuff use only limited ammo each, unlimited ammo with reloads (like Ep.1), unlimited ammo altogether, or weapon-specific implementations of ammo (like certain weapons use limited clips, some draw from a full source, some regenerate slowly over time, etc.)?

Keep in mind the latter approach, while adding significant novelty to the gameplay system, will be almost an order of magnitude more complex (but doable) to implement.  So I guess the question is: Is it worth it to the players?

Limited revives that can be purchased - in some situations, where I had enough time, I prefered to die instead of using the granade wich cost money.

I say have unlimited ammo - just like Episode 1. It is kinda "Super intense brainless shooter"... I want it to stay almost like that. wink.gif Don't force the player to think too much - remember: people don't like thinking nowadays.

Will you have something like spells or not ? If yes, make the mana regenerate and that's final - no powerups to worry the mind wink.gif
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
Lives: Limited lives, no lives (one death = bye bye), unlimited lives (ala Ep.1)?

I would say limited revives that can be purchased/found.
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
Time Limit: Single time limit (ala Ep.1), area/mission-based time limits, or none at all?

The times limit craetes the 75% of the tension in Episode 1, I think. Without it, the one-line story and the fact that the storyline allmost doesen't exist at all will become "naked".
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
Mullah: Money for kills, money for time, or money per area beaten?

Money for EXP. (If it is possible to create with your gunner system.)
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
Upgrades n' Stuff: Customizability/upgrades for everything and the kitchen sink, upgrades for only key weapons/stats/abilities, upgrades only for primary stats, or screw the upgrades I just want to kill stuff without that nonsense to worry about. wink.gif

I like the amount of upgrades you give us in Episode 1. Not too much, not too little. I think you should be able to upgrade allmost everything.
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
Purchase Options: Your choice of 3:  Purchaseable weapons/upgrades/etc. (ala Ep.1) only, findable weapons/upgrades/etc. only, or weapons/upgrades awarded per area/sequence only?

Purchase everything like in Episode 1.
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
Monsters: Simple monsters taking no more than 3-5 hits with reasonable upgrades to make a kill (ala Ep.1), or complex monsters with full-fledged VHP and trigger-enhanced behavior?

Again, the latter will be more difficult to implement (though assume all bosses/mini-bosses will function like that), and may not lend as much to gameplay as simply using old-school monsters to good effect per each area (location/context-activated spawns, organized behavior, etc.)?

I say make smart monsters something like mini-bosses. And make the bosses really intelligent and organized. The mass of monsters should be quite stupid.
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
[*]Gameplay Duration:  Long and involving (5-10 hours), or short and intense (1-3 hours)?

Very intense for 1-3 hours.
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar)
Story: Short novel (characters, plot twists, drama, etc.), 5 page fanfic (good vs. evil... maybe a plot twist or a few manditory characters), weekend comic strip (basically like Ep.1 is now), or one-liner ("I maked the bad peoples fall downs!")?

I would like to see a bit more of a story than Episode 1. But not too much story - it will ruin your shooter. Just like smart lirycs would ruin a movie about Arnold kicking the asses of thousands of "bad guys".
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-15 at 02:59:44
Wow. Excellent feedback.


Still hard to conclude just yet what the right approach is. I'm starting to get an idea of what the popular one is by now, though.

But popular and right are not always the same. However by getting specific feedback like this I can get some ideas of what not to do, at least. From there I can home in by popularity and personal judgement to fill in the blanks.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Atreyu) on 2006-07-15 at 04:16:15
Multiplayer, 1-2 players. It would have a great impact because sometimes 1 player rpgs get extremely boring just by yourself. I would prefer them to both be gunners but maybe have some twists for each one to have some kind of different abilities/weapons.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-15 at 05:45:10
*sigh*


Guess I have no choice...

lol.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Sikas on 2006-07-15 at 08:54:00
QUOTE(devilesk @ Jul 15 2006, 12:57 AM)
Oh yea, and one thing I noticed when playing RUSH is that the units that you build from the gateway to switch weapons can be made faster. Set build time to 1 in SCMD2 smile.gif
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It's set to like 2 - 3 seconds. Not 1. tongue.gif Hrm.. Is it just me who feels the game is sluggish? It's not smooth. :/
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-15 at 09:18:44
A few people now have complained about lag and other studdering issues. Can't seem to isolate the common demoninator, though. Doesn't seem to be a hardware issue (computers more powerful than mine are having issues, apparantly).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-07-15 at 14:35:08
I have a fiew ideas about a fiew things... if you want to listen to me, just PM me wink.gif They may be noobish compared to your ones, but maybe I'll still help Episode 2 somehow... tongue.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by devilesk on 2006-07-15 at 14:51:12
QUOTE(Sikas @ Jul 15 2006, 08:53 AM)
It's set to like 2 - 3 seconds. Not 1. tongue.gif Hrm.. Is it just me who feels the game is sluggish? It's not smooth. :/
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Put that tongue back in your mouth, 1 refers to SCMD2 settings. And it's actually set to 15 when it can be set to 1.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Sikas on 2006-07-15 at 15:16:59
Touchy touchy? Jeez. In Starforge it can be set to 1, kthx. Now hush and get back on-topic. And wait, it's set to 15 seconds? ... Doesn't build in 15 seconds.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by slayer766 on 2006-07-15 at 15:39:15
You guys the build time is set to 1 and leave it alone now.

Also Tux, the only lag that I experience is at the very beginning just around when it shows all of them floor traps, and thats the ONLY lag for me which is no big deal at all.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by devilesk on 2006-07-15 at 15:52:12
QUOTE(Sikas @ Jul 15 2006, 03:16 PM)
Touchy touchy? Jeez. In Starforge it can be set to 1, kthx. Now hush and get back on-topic. And wait, it's set to 15 seconds? ... Doesn't build in 15 seconds.
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... I'm talking about everything in SCMD2 settings, 15 does not refer to seconds. And the fact that it can be set to 1 in SF is irrelevant, because I wasn't even talking about that and that's besides the point.

You just tried to correct me when there was nothing to be corrected on, and so I had to point that out and that's all there is to it.
QUOTE
You guys the build time is set to 1 and leave it alone now.

Also Tux, the only lag that I experience is at the very beginning just around when it shows all of them floor traps, and thats the ONLY lag for me which is no big deal at all.


No, I talked to Tux about this on MSN last night and he even acknowledged that the build time wasn't set to 1, even though he said it was on his to do list.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tdnfthe1 on 2006-07-15 at 18:36:55
My Feedback Tips:
  • Defenitely make ep.2 have a multiplayer factor
  • Add a few more weapons or guns, maybe even have missions where you team up with npcs or wildlife
  • Hmm could always add a survival system similar to metal gear solid 3: snake eater(where you have to worry about patching injuries, eating, sleeping, etc.)
  • The Gunner system was beautiful I just hated incoming attacks and your defiler would just run off somewhere while you're pressing command buttons, but I think your gunner system is great
  • If you have a nice multiplayer capability in the game, then defenitely allow playes to backtrack or make the game "non-linear" if that's what you want. I suggest just giving us an ability to stray from the main path of the story, don't make into a completely open game.
  • Keep all the upgrade ideas; such as weapon upgrades, ammo upgrade, and weapon purchasing. There could also be times where your weapons arn't usable and you MUST use hand to hand or melee combat(don't know how you'd do that though)
  • Keep your time limit and death idea, maybe have certain battles or moments in the game where dying results in loss? Otherwise I liked the idea of time as a killer(though it didnt make much sense via storyline)


Anyway I liked the first map, thought you did a great job. Goodluck on the second one hope my comments help.

~Tdnfthe1
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-15 at 19:37:40
QUOTE(devilesk @ Jul 15 2006, 02:51 PM)
... I'm talking about everything in SCMD2 settings, 15 does not refer to seconds. And the fact that it can be set to 1 in SF is irrelevant, because I wasn't even talking about that and that's besides the point.

You just tried to correct me when there was nothing to be corrected on, and so I had to point that out and that's all there is to it.
No, I talked to Tux about this on MSN last night and he even acknowledged that the build time wasn't set to 1, even though he said it was on his to do list.
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Actually I did set it. I just forgot it got unset when I was jumping between editors. tongue.gif

ADDITION:
QUOTE(Tdnfthe1 @ Jul 15 2006, 05:36 PM)
My Feedback Tips:

  • Defenitely make ep.2 have a multiplayer factor
  • Add a few more weapons or guns, maybe even have missions where you team up with npcs or wildlife
  • Hmm could always add a survival system similar to metal gear solid 3: snake eater(where you have to worry about patching injuries, eating, sleeping, etc.)
  • The Gunner system was beautiful I just hated incoming attacks and your defiler would just run off somewhere while you're pressing command buttons, but I think your gunner system is great
  • If you have a nice multiplayer capability in the game, then defenitely allow playes to backtrack or make the game "non-linear" if that's what you want. I suggest just giving us an ability to stray from the main path of the story, don't make into a completely open game.
  • Keep all the upgrade ideas; such as weapon upgrades, ammo upgrade, and weapon purchasing. There could also be times where your weapons arn't usable and you MUST use hand to hand or melee combat(don't know how you'd do that though)
  • Keep your time limit and death idea, maybe have certain battles or moments in the game where dying results in loss? Otherwise I liked the idea of time as a killer(though it didnt make much sense via storyline)


Anyway I liked the first map, thought you did a great job. Goodluck on the second one hope my comments help.

~Tdnfthe1
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Suggestions noted. Yeah I'm almost certain now I'll be doing at least a little non-linearity.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by KABOOM on 2006-07-15 at 19:46:04
2 player
have stores around the map to buy ammo, guns, grenades
healing places hospitals and have some portable medkits
some non literal is needed for sure
make it 2 gunners no bomber
not the same boss all the time
keep the sick terrain(i know its blocky but the image it gives is nice)
not infinite ammo make to buy clips at armory or something
secret weapons stolen by monsters(side missions for xtra stuff)
go catch thiefs for clurks(sidemission)
no spells its just too weird with guns and all
make survival mode like zell suggested
practice mode like u can select any weapon and just play around with it against any enemy (alot of work for that but would be rly sick)
smart computers

ill get more those r changes i would like happy.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-15 at 19:48:26
QUOTE(KABOOM @ Jul 15 2006, 06:45 PM)
2 player
have stores around the map to buy ammo, guns, grenades
healing places hospitals and have some portable medkits
some non literal is needed for sure
make it 2 gunners no bomber
not the same boss all the time
keep the sick terrain(i know its blocky but the image it gives is nice)
not infinite ammo make to buy clips at armory or something
secret weapons stolen by monsters(side missions for xtra stuff)
go catch thiefs for clurks(sidemission)
no spells its just too weird with guns and all
make survival mode like zell suggested
practice mode like u can select any weapon and just play around with it against any enemy (alot of work for that but would be rly sick)
smart computers

ill get more those r changes i would like happy.gif
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Suggestions noted. I just figured if the boss did different things each time, it shouldn't matter if it was the same unit or anything. tongue.gif But yeah, I'll be definitely focusing more on diversity this time (in many aspects).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by KABOOM on 2006-07-15 at 19:56:05
ha just got another few get some gambling of some kind it would be pretty cool i find
name some units to get more of the story instead of blanks
a sword as a weapon
me as a tester
make the codes harder to get
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-15 at 21:14:33
QUOTE(KABOOM @ Jul 15 2006, 06:55 PM)
ha just got another few get some gambling of some kind it would be pretty cool i find
name some units to get more of the story instead of blanks
a sword as a weapon
me as a tester
make the codes harder to get
[right][snapback]524453[/snapback][/right]

Noted.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by devilesk on 2006-07-15 at 22:36:12
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ Jul 15 2006, 07:37 PM)
Actually I did set it.  I just forgot it got unset when I was jumping between editors. tongue.gif
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Well technically I never said you didn't set it at one point. I just stated that you acknowledged the fact it wasn't set to 1 in the final version.

Although it depends on how you interpret the "wasn't set to 1" part as in wasn't set ever, or at one point. I didn't make myself clear either way, so your point is still valid.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zell.Dincht on 2006-07-15 at 23:09:15
My Answers:

Multiplayer: Create two seperate tracks of gameplay to accomodate single player (which'll likely be more story-based and permit more 'intimate' gameplay) in one, and coop (or even DM) with another
Create two seperate tracks

Ammo/Mana/Charges/etc.: Weapon-specific implementations of ammo (certain weapons use limited clips, some draw from a full source, some regenerate slowly over time, etc.)
That would be my suggestion

Lives: Only 1 life


Mullah: Money for kills, money for time, money per area beaten
All of them biggrin.gif

Upgrades n' Stuff: Customizability/upgrades for everything and the kitchen sink, upgrades for only key weapons/stats/abilities
That way


Purchase: Your choice of 3: Purchaseable weapons/upgrades/etc. Maybe even find some weapons on the area your playing.
That way for sure.


Monsters: Complex monsters with full-fledged VHP and trigger-enhanced behavior

Suggestions:

Add Survival Mode but pick your weapon and your area, like Dark Forest etc.
Make begining weapons have limited ammo but are weaker than others.
Add side quests, protect people from rushes or protect cities from rushes.
Select missions from a new option called Mission Mode. (which can be unlocked by beating the game, beating all survival mode areas etc.)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2006-07-15 at 23:18:33
Cooperative Gameplay.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2006-07-16 at 00:10:43
Wow. You guys sure are spoiled. tongue.gif jk.





Ok I have one final question I need from you guys, and this one's important: EUDs, or vanilla triggers?

With EUDs, I have a few options open to me to implement some of the more complex features. The tradeoff is that if Blizzard releases any new versions of SC, I have to as well (to update the EUD triggers for the new version, I mean). That could mean a lot of extra future work, and possible lack of support for future versions.

If I stick with vanilla triggers, I'd be playing it safe, but a lot of the more advanced features would be harder or impossible to make. I could compensate, of course, but the one thing it'll effect the most is multiplayer, as making the gunner system workable with multiple people becomes complicated without EUDs (unless I use an entirely different method than the spell-casting approach).


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