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[left]Disclaimer: Ok, I've got a lot on my plate ATM so don't expect anything of this any time soon.
That'll give you guys some time before you have to worry about me again, I'm sure. :cackles evily:


Anyway let's get the knowns out of the way (about the current Rush, I mean):

• Good, but hard.
• Gunner System's a female dog.
• Gunner System's repetative.
• Gunner System hurts my index finger.
• Gunner System killed my unborn children.
• etc.

So yeah, map is good, but gunner system and gameplay elements hard (but possible!) to work with. That I guess is the price that comes with doing something almost completely new in a game barely equipped to handle the things it's been doing for years.



So in what is probably the pinacle of my insanity, instead of throwing in the towel and deciding Rush (like A&O) would be more fitting for its own mod/game, I'm going to do another installment of Rush for Starcraft UMS. My ambition is to fully and truly create a new gameplay system out of the existing game that both works well, is fun to play, and is realized with a fully-fledged gameplay implementation.



So where do we begin? Well for one, when I say 'we', I mean simply I'm tired of doing all the work myself. I'm still as of yet unacquainted with a full-fledged team project for Starcraft, as my nasty habits of dabbling in every little thing and never hunkering down to the big stuff usually prevails and I end up spending a year and a half longer to finish something (*cough* *rush* *cough*) than I should... if at all. Bad habit to have while trying to organize a team effort, but one which I intend to break.

Now, I think I know where I intend to go to realize my ambition, though. The gunner system has always been my favored direction, but only now do I think I have the right formula for it to work out. I'll hold off on sharing it until I get a good gameplay prototype for it first, but when I do that'll mark the beginning of official development and planning for the next installment.



Until that point, I just want to get a good image of where to go with the next installment.

---

Anyway, here's a few questions I want to get a good public sampling for:

• Linearity: Should I focus Ep.2 on having as tight of a gameplay experience as possible along a linear path (ala Ep.1), or should I spread things out and give the player some room with a more non-linear design? Both routes would probably be just as much work/complexity, but if I made the map non-linear it might yield less "epic" gameplay, whereas a more linear design might seem more constraining.
  
  Did it bug you too much in Ep.1 to have only one path to go by, in other words?
  
  
• Multiplayer: Should I focus on:
  • As tight of a single player experience as possible.
  • A slightly looser gameplay experience to allow for limited multiplayer (like the unfinished gunner/bomber thing I was aiming for with Ep.1).
  • Open things up totally to enable full multiplayer (multiple gunners/bombers), potentially relegating all "epic"ness to fixed cutscenes or wildly complex (and harder and more time-consuming) implementations?
• ...or should I create (as best I can) two seperate tracks of gameplay to accomodate single player (which'll likely be more story-based and permit more 'intimate' gameplay) in one, and coop (or even DM) with another (which'd likely just be an abbreviated single player)?
  
  (Keep in mind any multiplayer decisions I make automatically upgrade the projects complexity by 50% or more, so I'd like it to be worthwhile enough to people before I bother.
  
  
• Ammo/Mana/Charges/etc.: Should weapons and stuff use only limited ammo each, unlimited ammo with reloads (like Ep.1), unlimited ammo altogether, or weapon-specific implementations of ammo (like certain weapons use limited clips, some draw from a full source, some regenerate slowly over time, etc.)?
  
  Keep in mind the latter approach, while adding significant novelty to the gameplay system, will be almost an order of magnitude more complex (but doable) to implement. So I guess the question is: Is it worth it to the players?
  
  
• Lives: Limited lives, no lives (one death = bye bye), unlimited lives (ala Ep.1)?
  
  
• Time Limit: Single time limit (ala Ep.1), area/mission-based time limits, or none at all?
  
  
• Mullah: Money for kills, money for time, or money per area beaten?
  
  
• Upgrades n' Stuff: Customizability/upgrades for everything and the kitchen sink, upgrades for only key weapons/stats/abilities, upgrades only for primary stats, or screw the upgrades I just want to kill stuff without that nonsense to worry about.
  
  
• Purchase Options: Your choice of 3: Purchaseable weapons/upgrades/etc. (ala Ep.1) only, findable weapons/upgrades/etc. only, or weapons/upgrades awarded per area/sequence only?
  
  I'll likely use a combination of the 3 but I want to know which your preference lies at most.
  
  
• Monsters: Simple monsters taking no more than 3-5 hits with reasonable upgrades to make a kill (ala Ep.1), or complex monsters with full-fledged VHP and trigger-enhanced behavior?
  
  Again, the latter will be more difficult to implement (though assume all bosses/mini-bosses will function like that), and may not lend as much to gameplay as simply using old-school monsters to good effect per each area (location/context-activated spawns, organized behavior, etc.)?
  
  
• Gameplay Duration: Long and involving (5-10 hours), or short and intense (1-3 hours)?
  
  
• Story: Short novel (characters, plot twists, drama, etc.), 5 page fanfic (good vs. evil... maybe a plot twist or a few manditory characters), weekend comic strip (basically like Ep.1 is now), or one-liner ("I maked the bad peoples fall downs!")?

Feedback appreciated.[/left]

I'm ceasing the posting in red, as it hurts my eyes on this screen.


Anyway, my thoughts for Rush 2 were that it be less of a mindless shooter, and more agility based. You would use mobile grid based movement to dodge around, all the while shooting stuff with whatever gunner system your insane mind has brewed up.

ADDITION:
For example the Guardian would shoot unguided missiles, but more of them, so you have to dodge around them instead of shooting them down.

My thoughts toward RUSH... The gun system is the best thing that SC will EVER see towards a first person shooter, and shouldnt lose any of its glory. Its already as best as it can be of sorts..

The scariness of the science vessles and the zealots in the beginning was aslo nice.. with theyre mysterious passing... You need more elements like that in #2.

Thats one thing...mystery.. In RUSH 1, you basically follow a path... (Or get eated by DTS!) and go and kill things.. But im not saying that gunning and running is bad. I love it, espically when its smooth like you made it.

Of course, the CC's of death popping out of nowhere 3 times....kinda got annoying, yet funny. (Yay, i got killed by a CC....respawning.... . . .)

All I need say, is you should aim for more mystery, and some more storyline perhaps.

Reasonable enough. The key to that though is the gunner system, and I do plan to allow the player to both move and shoot this time around.

Assume that much will be already part of the game.

ADDITION:

Mystery eh? You mean use more things for dramatic effect instead of literal effect?

Anyway, here's a few questions I want to get a good public sampling for:

• Should I focus Ep.2 on having as tight of a gameplay experience as possible along a linear path (ala Ep.1), or should I spread things out and give the player some room with a more non-linear design? Both routes would probably be just as much work/complexity, but if I made the map non-linear it might yield less "epic" gameplay, whereas a more linear design might seem more constraining.
  
  I would say you add a linear story to it. Sure it seems just seems a little boring, perhaps no replayability, but like Final Fantasy and the sorts, it was still amazing and people replay it regardless of the linear storyline.
  
  
  Did it bug you too much in Ep.1 to have only one path to go by, in other words?
• Should I focus on:
  • As tight of a single player experience as possible.
  • A slightly looser gameplay experience to allow for limited multiplayer (like the unfinished gunner/bomber thing I was aiming for with Ep.1).
  • Open things up totally to enable full multiplayer (multiple gunners/bombers), potentially relegating all "epic"ness to fixed cutscenes or wildly complex (and harder and more time-consuming) implementations?
• ...or should I create (as best I can) two seperate tracks of gameplay to accomodate single player (which'll likely be more story-based and permit more 'intimate' gameplay) in one, and coop (or even DM) with another (which'd likely just be an abbreviated single player)?
  
  (Keep in mind any multiplayer decisions I make automatically upgrade the projects complexity by 50% or more, so I'd like it to be worthwhile enough to people before I bother.
  
  I feel you should base it on a single player perspective. I mean if it's going to be linear as I stated, then it's more fun that way I think. Making a map co-op with those kind of triggers you implemented is gonna be a long arse ride. And who will spend that much time playing a map that long? If it's mostly all gunning, you can only spend so much time clicking. Unless you integrate a really fantastic plot and makes the user WANT to know what's happening, then sure. But I suggest first player experience. For convience and ease of mind.
  
  
• Limited ammo, unlimited ammo with reloads (like Ep.1), unlimited ammo altogether, or weapon-specific implementations of ammo (like certain weapons use limited clips, some draw from a full source, some regenerate slowly over time, etc.)?
  
  I always prefer the ideal of picking up ammo, and the ability to upgrade weapons, or get a stronger weapon. With a certain capacity to hold ammo, etc. Thought ammo that regenerates slowly does sound nice. Though people who have regenerating bullets will just sit in the game and wait for ammo, unless as I read below, it has a time-limit which I think you want. .. Though with that in mind, might as well scrap the regeneration of bullets perhaps? You pick up ammo, you kill things, money/buy ammo.
  
  Keep in mind the latter approach, while adding significant novelty to the gameplay system, will be almost an order of magnitude more complex (but doable) to implement. So I guess the question is: Is it worth it to the players?
• Limited lives, no lives (one death = bye bye), unlimited lives (ala Ep.1)?
• Single time limit (ala Ep.1), area/mission-based time limits, or none at all?
• Money for kills, money for time, or money per area beaten?
• Customizability/upgrades for everything and the kitchen sink, upgrades for only key weapons/stats/abilities, upgrades only for primary stats, or screw the upgrades I just want to kill stuff without that nonsense to worry about.
• Your choice of 3: Purchaseable weapons/upgrades/etc. (ala Ep.1) only, findable weapons/upgrades/etc. only, or weapons/upgrades awarded per area/sequence only?
  
  I never liked time-limits. Makes me nervous crazy. I don't enjoy the story or what's happening as well as I'd like to. I found that when I played in the Ep. 1 part, it was a bit unnerving. Sure, it was well put together. But I rushed through almost too fast for my enjoyment.
  
  
  I'll likely use a combination of the 3 but I want to know which your preference lies at most.
• Simple monsters taking no more than 3-5 hits with reasonable upgrades to make a kill (ala Ep.1), or complex monsters with full-fledged VHP and trigger-enhanced behavior?
  
  Haha, if you can make VHP and trigger-enhanced behaviour would be awesome and the next level for RPG wise or playability. I think if you can put this in, try for it. If for sakes of time or whatever else, you can put the simple monsters in. Fine with me.
  
  
  Again, the latter will be more difficult to implement (though assume all bosses/mini-bosses will function like that), and may not lend as much to gameplay as simply using old-school monsters to good effect per each area (location/context-activated spawns, organized behavior, etc.)?
• Duration: Long and involving (5-10 hours), or short and intense (1-3 hours)?
• Story: Short novel (characters, plot twists, drama, etc.), 5 page fanfic (good vs. evil... maybe a plot twist or a few manditory characters), weekend comic strip (basically like Ep.1 is now), or one-liner ("I maked the bad peoples fall downs!")?
  
  Hrm, spending too long at a computer clicking by shooting with a mouse and a button does get repetitive unless environments differ, variety of monsters/abilities. But I find playing a map for 5-10 is killer. BUT, it will make it interesting and possibility of playing it more. But with a map with 1-3 hours into it. You can play it plenty, and play more for fun. And what would be AWESOME, is a story. I love stories.. perhaps about love, demsel in distress? I don't know. A story at least, a couple plot twists.. a good/evil parts.. Some drama. No horror though.. that doesn't make me want to play it more.

Feedback appreciated.


Well, there's my feedback.

P.S.: When I played your map, it was lagging slightly? Sluggist movements... Probably my computer? But a 1 Ghz computer with 64 mb card and 512 ram shouldn't be feeling anything like laggish in a starcraft game. :/

I haven't beaten the first Rush yet, so I am not sure where the storyline leaves off, however, I'm thinking something along the lines of an Installation type map would be appropriate, like infilitrating some government lab or something. That said, here's some features I thought of that could be used regardless, or maybe with a little tweaking to make it fit the setting of the map.

•Shooting canisters filled with explosive materials that would explode (of course) and kill nearby enemies.

•Shooting down doors (Hey, it's always fun to shotgun your way into a room isn't it?)

•An area where you need stealth, and so you have to use your silencer.

•Limited ammo, and you have take clips off of dead soldiers or find it in hidden ammo dumps.

•Puzzles & Mini Quests. For example on an installation type map, where you have to move past security cameras or the alarm sounds. Or, you have to go to different computer terminals to get past a certain area. Or, you have to escort a unit, which automatically follows you but you have limited control of, to a certain area without it getting killed.

•For a more involved storyline, perhaps you could limit the "Rush" factor a bit, like having a certain amount of lives to finish the game, and then some missions aren't timed and some are.

Yes, more mystery. Like, mysterious things happening....wierd explosions that are unexplainable...more enemies moving out of your reach.. Those sorts of things.

A sense of desperation would be very interesting to implement. If all you have is a pistol, and you're desperately pumping shells into a shambling enemy, that would be quite a feeling!

Noes! Must have ze Rushees!


Well I'll definitely look into having more involvement with certain areas instead of making it a matter of killing and moving to the next area, but I still want to try to give the player the perfect experience of being able to wrack up kills in the triple digits in one sitting in a Starcraft map.

But I won't put that before gameplay, if it comes to it. We'll be doing things by prototypes instead of just trusting to the wind (like with Ep.1) that a given idea will yield a fun and novel piece of gameplay (:shudders: like some certain chasms part ).

Limited ammunition would be very interesting, though you would have to consider how to get more... Perhaps a supply drop? Random kills gets you a free clip off of a zergling? Something like that. Id prefer limited ammo, so it would take more skill to move onward.

Maybe you should add difficulty! Harder modes have less ammo, and health..
Like....You get the Unclean One in hard mode, and have half HP as the other defiler does.

Summary: More involvement, intimacy, and depth. Less mindlessness.

Noted.

I think to create that intimacy, if that's what you ultimately decide to do, you would need to have a developed character personality so that players can have a stronger reaction to in-game events.

You say you are upgrading the gunner system improving gameplay. Shouldn't you upgrade the storyline too?

Multiplayer would be a good idea and it would add to it's replayability and depth in gameplay.

Ah but with more gunner gameplay depth just how much time will the players have to be able to stop and smell the roses? But that's something that'll have to be considered during the middle-late prototyping stages (I would suspect). Bit too early now.

But yes, I think since I went and did that little cliffhanger schtick for Ep.1 at least some story is definitely called for.

Eh, a deathmatch with one type of gun (Selected before game.) would be a nice little feature. Password unlocked though.

And as I said eariler, make the game have limited ammunition, its easy to rome through a level shooting blindly like crazy trying to pick off those burrowed Infested terrans.


Modified:

I did that through the forest in #1, and now ive memorized all the spots. o_o'

Good point. Noted.

ADDITION:

Certainly, but likely detract from its "epic"ness... which is something I think is important for an action game.

But teamplay can add depth for things like teamwork, puzzles, etc. I'd like some more feedback on those aspects a bit, to help decide that.

Here are some of my suggestions:


1. Open-Ended - Have the player find ways to access new parts of the map while having a large part of the map open to begin with. Levels can be separated by difficulty of enemies.
2. Have players locate their weapons and items instead of purchasing them.
3. Co-op mode.

I have more, but I don't think it'd be fair to you to list them all.

Well some things I would want is,


1. Complex monsters with full-fledged VHP and trigger-enhanced behavior
(So that its harder)

2. Maybe you buy 1 weapon, (like rifle, pistol etc) and you have to search for the other ones.

3. No infinite ammo because that would be too cheap. (but the idea about picking off clips would be great)

4. The use of canisters to explode things.

5. Side missions, like the guard the important person, assassinate someone. Maybe even destroy something important, like a virus that will affect and turn people into monsters.

6. You can also make something like an option, to do missions which you select.

7. Maybe in survival mode you can pick a place to go in the game and select your weapon. (Maybe you can add limited ammo so you search for it on the area you are in)

So let's see, some recurring things:
- Finite ammo.
- More advanced monsters.
- Explosive cannisters.


Otherwise, everyone seems divided about the linear vs. non-linear, story vs. non-story, etc. But that's ok. I'm slowly getting a better picture of what you guys want for this. Keep 'em coming!

Items with some kind of inventory system.

Cooperative Gameplay.

Oh yea, and one thing I noticed when playing RUSH is that the units that you build from the gateway to switch weapons can be made faster. Set build time to 1 in SCMD2

I did.


At least, I think I did...

ADDITION:

Would you prefer the gunner/bomber duo or everyone as gunners?

Everyone as gunners.