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Being intelligent isn't easy as you think. If you are out there, you are bound to make hapless mistakes. If the world was a rose garden, then hell... this thread would have never existed.

Do you think i never knew these courtesies or code of manners? I did. But I did not follow them. Each person differ in thoughts, and when thoughts differ, theres always an amount of conflict between these two thoughts. I however have more than one way of acting. I'am tainted, polluted and twisted. However, if i go out, and interact with others. I'll probably be wearing a mask saying that I'am friendly.

People are changed through enviroments. One thing that changes thoughts are having which friends. Friends that think like what you define as "non-intellectual for not keeping their courtesy". Then the world will soon be filled with non-intellectual people.

One enviroment that lead us to this is selfishness of others, and the need to survive. Things that brought us to this is money, power, and influence. Why do you think that the world we currently live in is working? It is filled with crimes, poverty and greed. I do not call that "working right". It is only the nature of our race. To live for themselves.

People have been have been doing stupid ass things since the dawn of the time. Just now a days, we have it televised.

Amen.

The idea of "counter-culture" is gone. It died in the 80's.

In the 60's, people wore suits and ties daily. Then teens decided that they should wear what they want instead, going against the unwritten guidelines of American living. Then those kids decided that the Vietnam war was dumb and were branded as "hippies." Disco comes along and those hippies drop "peace and love" to boogey with KC and the Sunshine Band. Then rock made a comeback, influencing culture to shift once again to create the punk rock generation (and the more underground goth population). That is counter culture in a nutshell.

Now anyone wears whatever they want, say what they want, and believe what they want. There is no actual set culture to rebel from. Thus, counter culture no longer exists.

You have preps, punks, goths, so-called "emo," geeks, wannabe hippies, gangsters, pseudo-gangsters, surfers, jocks, metalheads, and various other clique-like labels that make up our society. Which of these should constitute our culture? Which of their set of manners should we idolize?

I guess the only real counter-culture would be to have every teenage boy dress in a suit and tie and have every teenage girl dress in a dress and blouse - both groups also having impecable manners. Then of course the men would have to be breadwinners again and women would be housewives. That regression would be total counter-culture (consequently creating a new culture all over again).

Your so damn right. I used to spray paint pick up trucks.

The anti culture idea is a poorly thought out concept. It wrongly assumes that the average person now a days has less manners than the average person 100 years ago.

Crime is not something that has been invented in the past five decades. In fact, in the 1800s, depending on where you were (basically any slum of a major city), you may have been even more likely to get robbed than you would walking through the housing projects of today. There were areas then, where the aristocrats and bourgeois simply didn't go.

Suceptibility to crime has to do with one's location and social class. As does this "anti-culture" to which you're referring. Don't get me wrong. I'm by no means saying that the rich man would be any more likely to give up his seat for the elderly woman than poor, but I do think that the rich man wouldn't start swearing at the lady. In the very unlikely event that this does happen, however, there's a 99% chance that it's the poor man. (And yes, I've seen it.)

Of course, social class isn't dependent soley on money. Take any famous rapper/pop singer. Sure they're rich, but I doubt anyone would consider them "upper class" nor patron saints of high culture. I hate to sound bigoted, but I think culture is still alive and well among those who have "old money." Nouveau riche trying to act like they have old money may also support true culture and the poor very well may act courteous, but the fact of the matter remains that growing up in a family to whom money was never an issue provides a good education and quite likely good morals. (Someone can feel free to try to argue the spoiled brat point of view though.)

Do you think intelligence is some job? Some duty? It's a blessing, you don't earn intelligence you already have it. Who said the world was perfect? Really what did that have to do with anything? Hapless mistakes? It's called luck, some people have it, some don't.
Yes yes we already know. You care about only yourself, you don't have to repeat it twice. What we are saying is that it's detracting from society. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Your so called intelligent mind is obviously being wasted if you aren't doing anything with it. Selfishness of others? The need to survive? Do you think these phrases even exist in our modern world today? These days if you are starving, you go to a homeless center. If you are dieing, you go to a medical ward. Why do places like this exist? Because people like you failed to succeed and people like us managed to, and I'm pretty happy with that. I'm pretty glad everyone in the world wasn't like you, because otherwise we would all still be living in mud huts. The world is obviously filled with less crimes, less poverty, and less greed compared to a millenia ago. Why? Because humans worked together, and it obviously was a successful idea. I don't understand why you don't see this, because it is pretty obvious. It is the nature of our race to work together.

Intelligence isn't a permanent quality. People aren't intelligent because they do not have manners. My belief is that intelligence is another misconception made by the human mind to differenciate people.
Do you think you know the world? People aren't selfless. And living like that isnt even considered living to some people. Do you ever read news papers? Everyday is FILLED with poverty, crime, greed, and conflict.
World isnt made up of emotional people. Our modern world today isn't enough. Do you think this modern world is perfect? A place where all the people live happily and eat like you do? There arent many people who live with all the good and happy things. Selfishness is a nature to humans. Do you think your perfect? No. You probably hate some people, and as you call them idiots, they would call you a hypocrite and hate you even more.

Actually you both have points there. I can't say that every hungry person can go to a church or other place where he can get tleast some help. But things aren't that bad.

To Lithium: intelligence and manners are different things, but it's a rare picture to see an intelligent person to swear like hell in normal situations, like somebody accidentally stepping on his foot. And yes, intelligence is luck. You can make it a bit better, or a bit worse during your life, but in general, it stays.

To PwnPirate: Well, the world isn't that good as you stated... look at Africa.

Lithium and PwnPirate represent two different minds - one (PwnPirate) thinks it is very good to eat and have shelter, and all people should help eachother out. Lithium looks at all the power-hungry people, all the greed, and thinks that this world is quite harsh, and it should be "every man for himself".

Did I discribe you correctly ?

You are repeating your strange idea as to why the world isn't perfect. Well that's fine and dandy because I never said the world was perfect. I said the state of the world is better than it was a millenia ago. Which can be proven with statistics. That's not even related to the world being perfect, everyone knows that. If you honestly think that selfishness is our basic functioning, then you should really take a walk outside. Why do we have cities? Why do we have shops? Why not simply steal goods for yourself? Why do we have a law enforcement system? I mean sure these things may not be of high quality in some places of the world, but those few places don't represent the whole world. The majority of us adhere to the laws, pay our taxes, and live together with ease. It's the select few like you who have these ideas, and only a select few. If you speak of the world as if the majority agrees with you, then you need to open your eyes. The human race as a whole is still working together, despite the fact that some strange few individuals don't. I really don't see the logic behind it either. Why not let your seat up for the lady? Why not return lost items to their owner? Do you get some sense of joy from detracting from society? I really don't see the point in acting so rebellious against doing something as simple as being courteous.

We are selfish, but not stupid. Do you know why these cities and law enforcements exist? Cities exist because it gives us the benefit of high number of customers and faster trading goods. Law Enforcements exist to stop us from killing ourselves off.

Those two statements contradict eachother. We're not that smart if we need law enforcement to stop us from killing eachother.

I never said we were smart.

That's assuming smart is the only alternative to "stupid." To some degree you could also say that we are smart because we created law enforcement to stop us at the same time. I figured he meant we aren't stupid, but just average.

And plenty of smart people have murdered others.

That is called being criminally insane, and is a whole different topic altogether.


No, a select few are selfish, and others created these systems to keep those individuals in check. I can easily go up to some goods with the knowledge that I can steal them without getting caught, but I would simply turn it away for the sake of the shop owner. It's pretty simple for me actually, no second thoughts. I do admit that I have lived in quite good conditions for most of my life, but still, what does that prove? That I haven't seen the true face of the world? No. What it does prove is that people are not completely wired to be selfish at nature. People are completely wired to be efficient at nature. It just so happens that a few select individuals believe that stealing is efficient, and it just so happens that if they were educated, they would realize that it only contributes to the downfall of their lives and they would stop their actions. I'm not being biased here, these are the facts, and the statistics prove them. Statistics say that in areas where people are likely to steal, they are also likely to have dropped out of high school. It's as simple as that.

You're right on the effiency, I agree with that fully. It's more efficienct to just steal a big screen, than it is to go work at a crappy ass job for a week or two.

However It's root is not because of education, what you gonna do with that. Teach them not to steal? Most you can do with that, is give em better jobs, or teach them not to waste money on stupid things.

So therefore it's more towards the lines of,
their material desires do not meet their legal material abilities.

However, there are some people that do steal because they like stealing. You can't really fix that. But that's a mental disorder, and I don't know how common it is.

It is not very common. There were two brothers at our school. They were in 10th grade (like I am now). They were quite rich (their father owned some company that was somehow connected with railroad transport). They got pleasure just from doing bad things to people. They got pleasure from stealing. It ended up very tragically. They broke in their classmates home to steal her computer (not that they didn't have one, their father could buy them a 10x times better one), but they did it in the wrong time, and found their classmate at home. They beat her, raped her, beat her to death after that, and stole her computer. They had problems with the law before, but their father always managed to help them out. But this time he was unable to help. One of them blamed everything on himself, thus sending himself to prision for the rest of his life, and saving his brother from prision. Later it was called the most horrible crime of the year in our little country.

Do you think you can "educate" them somehow ?

I would normally have something more solid and more constructive to say about an interesting example like this, but I don't so:

They're morons.

Counselors exist why? The way I see it, they have had no knowledge how serious those problems were, either or they were mentally retarded/or abusing drugs to hinder their real sense.

Not alot of people really think serious things are really serious.

PwnPirate. One murder is called "criminally insane"? It's not criminally insane. It's emotional abortion that causes some people to go insane for the time being and kill people. And most of them feel guilt after they do that. There are murder classifications... Criminally Insane means they are insane for the rest of their life to do crimes. Either or, taking pleasure in crimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_murder

How do you know exactly which killer Devlin was talking about? All he said was "And plenty of smart people have murdered others."