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Occam's Razor (a concept with which Drunk is very familiar, by the way) states that the simplest explanation for something is probably the right explanation. Instead of magic and faeries and creationism (very complicated, just look at the Bible), the idea that the universe has always existed and will always exist (and therefore was never "created") is simple and fairly easy to comprehend. The only hard part of understanding it is that the human brain has trouble understanding the concept of "infinity", that there was no beginning and there won't be an end. But if you accept the basic idea of infinity then Occam's Razor does work. In this case, at least.

Edit: I guess Drunk kicked my ass in the post below this one. Check it out! He got smarter over last 6 months.

Also called the law of parsimony. Entities should not be expanded beyond what is necessary to explain anything. When comming to a conclusion, it is always best to start with what is already known. Many people mistake it as being "the simplist of two answers is perfered" and nothing more.

How does Occam's Razor prove God's existence?


You can not disprove the existence of God (hears cheers from theist) because something non-existant can not possibly leave behind evidence indicating it doesn't exist (hears tons of boos from theist).

No one has ever disproven the existence of vampires, leprachuans, and goblins, so why bother thinking they might exist?

EDIT:

Oh, you.

As I said, I can't really explain it. The concept of god is created to make us feel secure and avoid the 'just existing' state of things (which scares us).

Bah, I have to keep going back to make sure I'm not contradicting myself.

But then with the concept of god we can just say 'It's beyond our understanding.'
And then, we can say that the concept of the Universe just existing is also 'Beyond our understanding.'

...

ARGH! It's all so confusing if you stop to think about it!

I don't get it CaptainWill. Are you defining god as the cause to the universe? The uncaused cause? Is this god concious?

nahh , this is a breeze compared to some things in relativity.

Its all bout "how" you think of God or at least the idea of something that supposedly is uncomprehendable. Most people think of god as something unfathomable (never used that word before lol) and not even on purpose people put up mental blocks.

You could easily say Jello exist somehwere in the universe, and if you have no hard evidence then no one can possibly prove you wrong or right. Then whether you believe that Jello really does exist or not is up to you.

im catholic hmm does anyone else think god is a woman?
cuz i dont think a guy would make a comandment about not coveting anothers
wife

Lol, I never thought of that XD

Nice, lol god as a woman

I belive in Track & Field

I believe I'm human.

Well I don't like believing in something that doesn't exist so bleh.

Starcraft is my god.

I have bad luck with religious topics. Every time I reply to one I make an enemy.

I am a creative guy. I'm always imagining crap. So one day, when I realised that Christianity was a crock of crap, I decided I wasn't going to be an Atheist. I decided to convert to a religion that I wrote up for a story of mine. So now I'm a proud Thoamonist.

If anyone feels the need to absolve themselves of their Christian faith, read the book "Another Roadside Attraction", by Tom Robbins. It's basically about the '60s, but by the end it totally wipes clean any hold Christianity could have on your mind. Worth a read, even if you think your faith is unshakable. Be warned, it caused a friend of mine to reevaluate her whole life, and it could do the same to you.

im the weirdest of all of you. im Halo-ist. the halo books are my bible and Masterchief is my god. anyways. everyone here should read angels & demons its really freaking good and its not about angels or demons killing each other. author is dan brown. i just finished it yesterday and im very impressed at the writing. oh and yep the :ph34r: emoticon is awesome

My religon bit different. Im in Church of Scientology, got nothing really do wif god more do wif mankind and ability to push yourself more then you are to make yourself better. kinda thing. =/ may sound crap to some, but till you tryed it you cant judge like most people do.

my religion is bw

Christian Catholic
<----------------
and proud of it

I also recommend Losing Faith in Faith by Dan Baker. Dan Baker went from minister to atheist (and I'm thinking about being a closet-atheist minister if the pay is good ).

I've also read a little of The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, and put the book down because I didn't see any objective evidence presented after 41 pages. I also seen an excerpt of The Case for a Creator where he doesn't accurately represent the theory of evolution (perhaps he's been fed bulls*** by creationist), so I would be skeptical of this character. Before you read any of these books, you should read the two links in my profile on logical fallices.

If you read any books on creation/evolution, you'll notice that creationist never give any positive evidence for creationism, but refute strawmen arguments from the evolution side. Even if evolution were falsified, that does not leave creationism by process of elimination.

I don't know about that Scientology stuff. A friend of mine was almost recruited by Scientologists once. He was brought to this red, enclosed room, and sealed inside. Then he had to listen to this weird music and watch a video. Then, when he tried to leave, the people tried to make him stay as hard as they could, and he said the building was like a maze, so it was hard to get out. A lot of the tactics used by the Scientologists are the building blocks for brainwashing and subconscious suggestion. I have an e-book about it that I got off of SuprNova, I'll post the quotes and cite my sources later.

It just seems like all Scientologists do is take all your money and force you to recruit for them. It's more like a money-making machine than a religion. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

well all religions were matriarchal until the christain/chatholic beliefs arrived (who were all patriarchal) all of a sudden started saying god was a male. i mean look at all the druidic people. MOTHER nature MOTHER earth. all female based. like i said im halo-ist. but if people start twisting existing religions to make up their own its kinda sad.

oh and everyone whos satanist becuase its "cool" should know that all satanism is, is the belief of science as the creator of the universe and crap. not god. satan is derived from shaitan which means adversary. in the olden times the church used this to shun scientists from society. go ahead research it if you dont believe me, but all of uve been pwned.

Thats not 100% True Nozomu, you pay money for course's to better yourself so you can understand yaself better. Um wouldn't take you friend in room would be tv out in open area like in main enterance where he can watch it. If he wanted leave he should of just told them. (not evil cult that brainwashers) just another Religon trying make it in this messed up world.

Here's the simplest explaination: WE DON'T KNOW. Just as there's no evidence that God exists, there's no evidence that He DOESN'T exist either, so there's no point trying to prove or disprove. So instead of worrying about these sorts of things, why can't we just get on with our normal lives?

Oh, and I'm a Christian.

That's not an explanation. That's also one of the principals of Occam's Razor - do not add entities that do not have the facts to support it.


But to believe in something because it hasn't been shown to be false is logically fallacious. It would be an argument from ignorance and shifting the burden of proof on yourself at best.

Maybe there are vampires, there isn't any proof they don't exist. Maybe the entire world was just created five minutes ago with even our memories of "earlier" events intact, it's never been falsified, so should we believe or disbeleve? It would be more rational to assume false until shown otherwise.

"So, how do we deal with heretofore unknown, but suspicious and possibly false claims? The answer is that a fine line between naiveté and dogmatism must be walked by every critical thinker. On the one hand, sheer insanity awaits if we remain undecided on every bizarre yet conveniently unfalsifiable claim we come across:

- Leprechauns? Well, they might exist, so it would be sheer folly not to follow a rainbow for a free chance at $$$.
- Garden demons? You better not go outside in the dark, just in case.
- Deities that desire your attention and will roast you on a paranormal spit rack if you don't give them any? Well, it couldn't hurt to burn a goat in their favor once in awhile.
- Ghosts that might spontaneously combust your innards if you get up at any time evenly divisible by 2 minutes? Well, no one can prove those false, so let's keep an open mind... and take painstaking care not to go to the restroom at the wrong moment.

On the other hand, some claims that ran counter to initial expectations and common sense have, indeed, been borne out. Assuming something is logically possible, meaning it isn't internally contradictory, where does one draw the line to declare it a likely fiction and, more importantly, false until shown otherwise?"

- Allen Glenn, http://users.rcn.com/rostmd/winace/critica...able_claims.htm

Haha! No Religion for me! Well... I do have a Chicken Nugget Religion (cough-fake-cough) (No comment)

I am a Roman Catholic and proud. I can be considered 'fallen', because I don't beleive in all of the churche's teachings and beliefs. I believe in Jesus' basic and most important teaching: Loosen up, you go to heaven as long as you are good. I don'y know whether to believe in hell or not. Catholicism is like being Jewish except different beliefs and different time period (sort of). Jews don't believe in hell and most likely, the Catholic church at least partially fabricated hell to keep people from sinning as much and to persuade people to convert. I don't do the whole "All religions go to hell except mine." stuff that many do. I tolerate every religion, even the 'unusual' and 'unique' ones. P.S. I don't believe in karma.

I also have a belief that the world as we know it will end in in 2012.

I've been hearing about that a lot lately. I was at the mall and some lady in all orange stoped to talk to me. Somehow we got into science and she said that in 2011 the earth will turn upside-down and everyone will fall off. I assume she was a flat-earth bible literalist, but what she ment was that the axis of the earth will reverse. (That's not going to cause people to fall off the Earth ).

But tell me more about this end of the world in 2012. I don't believe it - not even skeptical.

I will say I'm Christian. Don't worry, I'm not going to "preach" words of fantasy and what not, because everyone is entitled to whatever the heck they want to believe.

Your atheist you say? Good for you.

If you don't know already, I'll say this.

This thread was NOT made to CONVERT people to your beliefs, it's merely saying what you believe in right now. So if your one of those people trying to prove a particular religion/believe wrong, STOP. Go make your own thread titled "Believe X is False!".

I don't have beef with atheists or buddhists or what not. I respect their beliefs and I don't try to change what they believe in either.

You like red, I like blue. I'm not going to force you to believe red is bad and blue is always good.