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*sigh* You athiests will just not get it.... have a fun time in hell...

The theory that god created the world as the bible says is for dumbasses.

The smart people that believe in god just think that it happened like scientifics say but was god who made it happen like that.

Time travel is tested? WTF? Give proofs.


Lol, I don't see why anyone hasn't flamed this post before. Um... Lol... harddrives evolve? Just because we figure out how to put a make bigger/faster computers has nothing to do with evolution.


So harsh... yet true...


You obviously don't know the concept of god if you would ask such a question.


Rain doesn't make the water marks he is probably talking about.

Actually, the sun is loosing 5 feet of depth per hour, and, if our solar system was JUST ONE million years old, the sun would touch the earth.
Where do you think the light and heat comes from? Neclear reactions/fusions make energy (duh) which equates in a loss of mass. Matter/energy can not be created or destroyed. Heat/light from the sun equates to the sun loosing SOMETHING. Burning coal = ash + heat + light. The coal is does not contain as much mass as it did.
Come on, this is all common science theories, and you call yourselves men of science?

pwned. You might want to rethink your stance on how the earth came about.

Oh, and one more thing: micro-evolution (natural selection, survial of the fittest, adapation) is science and is fact. Macro-evolution (creatures magically morphing into other creature species) is just bs. Make sure you have the two thoughts divided into seperate catagories before you are all like "but evolution is prov3n!!!1111." Too many people try to back up macro-evo with micro-evo. It's stupid.


And finally, about time travel: It will never be a reality. Simply because, time and the essence of time don't really exist. Time is a limitation of our weak human forms. There really is no past and there is definately no future involved. Everything that will happen already happened and we are just reading the story...

You have been watching too much sci-fi to think it is possible, and if our government is wasting money on trying to develop something so stupid, it's time to protest.

You contradicted yourself. You said that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed and then you gave an example of when both matter and energy are created and destroyed.

What?

Coal = Heat + Ash + Light?
Nothing is getting created or destroyed.

And if you were possibly talking about God:

God supercedes the laws of science because... he's god and he created these laws.

Pretty unfathomable how he created everything and applied rules and such. I mean, he didn't have to have a "World" version beta and had to debug his creation.

Energy is created, matter is lost.

The sun looses something because the light / heat energy is no longer on the sun. For example, the sun's light travels to earth. The sun lost energy and earth 'gained' it. Now that light can be absorbed by plants and turned into it's cool plant energy... and whatever else.

Energy can transform into different types without it being created.

This topic's getting too deep for my likings...

Omg... why'd you edit your post pcf? I thought it summarized my thoughts better than I did myself.

Anyways... chill, I don't even know what exactly you are trying to prove... either way, the sun is loosing mass as it does it's nuclear fusions to create the energy (heat/light) we need for life.

My point is that Einstein proved that matter and energy can be created and destroyed. The destruction of matter and the creation of energy both occur within the sun. Thats all.

I didn't really know if it was right or not... but here it is:



I forgot the last one...

See, right after I posted, I read Chill's Einstein quote, posted after I hit "Reply". It did remind me of why atomic bombs supposedly work: splitting an atom, a process that creates energy and destroys matter at the same time. So I edited it to the following:



And then I read his post over again, and changed to the Edit you see above...

I like science and all, with subscription to Popular Science, but there's a limit when something gets so abstract, so hard to prove that you just realize it's getting too deep... so I got out before I drowned.[/analogy]

All the cool people are going to hell anyway. Only boring people go to heaven.


I'm sure you'd be happy telling me.


Water Marks? You know, if water splashed on you for years and years like what science says, then you would be nothing but..nothing. Seriously, water drops would just completely destroy your body and leave almost nothing there for the eye to see. If drops of water can do that, what do you think rain can do? A lot of 'damage' to mountains.



First, where do you get these 'proofs' on how the sun is loosing mass? Second, if the sun was one million years old, it would be so small and young that it couldn't give off energy to us. Hell, earth wouldn't even be attracted to such a small sun. Now if you say if the sun was 8 billion years old, then it would be a super giant that would swallow earth. However, the sun is estimated to be 5 billion years old.

You are correct on matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed (if thats what you're saying). However, energy is not just energy you use, energy IS light. Matter in the sun is not being "lost", but rather, changed to other things. Burned up. Example, coals being burned gives off heat as well as fire and smoke. If you combine what was added to the coal and record EVERYTHING that it gives off, the things would be exactly the same.


Yup. I agree with this 100%. Creatures don't change into other creatures over night. Hell, they don't change through to them through thousands of years. But, over millions, I'm going to have to say the change of species is quite possible based on the huge changes in climates and the forceful ways of natural selection by killing off those who cannot survive.
Example:
If one animal had a strain that made it survive in heat and there was a huge drought. Lots of heat and everything. Those who did not have the strain would die. Those who did woud survive. Note that these strains are 100% random and therefore, extinction through this process is very possible. Now all of the organisms that had the strain survived and still have the strain. Now they are the common ones instead of the rare ones. Now lets say a cold came in. Those who could survive the cold would survive through the same thing. Now the animals left are the ones with both hot and cold 'proof' strains.

This type of concept can be applied to how the nose works. Placement of body parts, coloring. Just about everything is possible. This process does take many, many, many years. Possibly millions.



Time travel is possible, it has been proven that time goes slower by traveling at a faster speed (Refer to any jet + atomic clock tests on the internet if you want the proof). The problem with people saying time travel is not possible is because they think by pressing a button, one could go back in time. Thats simply not true. However, one could 'bend' the reality of this plane and be able to basically change what goes around them so they go slower (or the outside goes faster).

I more or less agree with everything moose cheeze just said.

My friend got me warned earlyer today so i am not in the mood to hold an argument with an admin. I think it is best for me to stay clear of this debate for now.

Alright lets go talk about black holes. Wormholes cannot be black holes. A black hole has gravity and therefore mass. When a black hole "sucks" something in it increases in size. This size increase is very small but it eventually causes some major to happen. The reason we can exactly see black holes is because it sucks light in. Therefore light is material.

Wormholes now! Wormholes are rips in the fabric of space that link to each other. That's all. Oh, and both could hurt you VERY badly. Wormholes happen randomly in high energy places. ESPECIALLY waves. You open up a wormhole whenever you drop your keys though it's smaller than .

I know alot for my age, yes, but hell thats what I get for having a cousin in college obsessd with this stuff >_<

I'll have to look for them, but I'll try to get some sources.


Yeah... But then how do you figure the sun isn't giving anything off and somehow still gaining mass? What about sun flares, do they disperse into space or somehow attracted back into the sun? ...


You start to talk about macro but then seem to give an example that supports micro. Resistances are not macro, a land creature sprouting wings over millions of years is. Just think how illogical that is, creatures gaining wings. Let's say, for example, mice were going to grow wings to turn into bats. Those mice in the pre-bat stages couldn't possibly be born with perfectly good wings, they would have to evolve them. So what, they first start out with a little nub where the wing would be... and it slowly changes into wings? If that was the case, the pre-bat mice would be at a serious disadvantage because of this useless addition to their bodies as snakes and such would have a much easier time preying on them. Any such creature would be killed off before it could evolve into the next stage.

There are many, many creatures with such complex systems for defense/offense that they couldn't have had a slow evolution. Frogs that can spit out explosions for example, if their system wasn't perfect from the start, they would kill themselves off.

And all these different types of species... from one single-cell organism? How far fetched is that.


True... but that doesn't have anything to do with macro evolution again...


So you're saying that anyone that was in these jets are now a few milli-seconds in the future? ... ...

Either way, how would we go about making something that can travel fast enough...
and somehow survive it...


What did you do to get warned?
But that's just retarded, do you think I'll warn you just for having an opposite viewpoint from me? Perhaps I'll create an account and do my posting under a new name.

Damn this topic is full of dumbasses -.-"

Isolated: Your scientific knowledge seems very limited, don't try to explain things that you don't even know.
What the Sun loses is energy, energy stored in the molecules of a gas. When the gas "burns" (is not really burn because there is no oxygen) that molecules change, and release energy, but they doesn't lose matter.
The Sun changes its size because the new material has a diferent density than the old one. You know that 1Kg of water and 1Kg of air doesn't fill the same size. Same happens with the matter of the Sun, when it is transformed the new matter has diferent density so it fills a diferent space.

I don't know if that change makes the Sun shrinks or grows, but its a really slow process. Between the earth and the Sun there are 999999999 miles (dont believe that, just think of a big number ), it would take a while for fill that.

Also, what scientifics say that the Earth will enter the Sun, that's not because the Sun grows, that's because the Sun will be dieing. The Sun is transforming a gas to another gas. When it finished to transform all the gas it will start to transform the second one into a third. When that happens the Sun will make an orangeish light and will explode. Not a big explosion, just the surface will expand that much that the earth will get between that surface and the core. That's how our Sun will die.

Other stars will grow that much that its matter wouldnt be able to hold the gravity. When that happens the matter falls itself, and all the star becomes a small point. That's what is called a black hole. Black holes are called like that because they are black: they have a gravity that big that the light falls into it and cant escape. A black hole never dies, it keeps getting more and more matter forever.

A wormhole is a lot diferent and isnt related to black holes neither to time travels. It is related to space travels, since the space is REALLY big, a ship cant travel, it would take ages just to go to the other side of our solar system. That's where the theory of the wormholes comes in.
Think of a wormhole as a shortcut between two places of the space. The theories says that they exist but they are small and dissapear too fast to use them. If we could control them we could be able to make shortcuts for travel really fast from one side to another of the space in a very short time.

Time travels come from the theory that Einstein developed. That theory says that nothing can travel faster than the light, because when you move faster your mass makes higher, so if you travel at the speed of the light you would have an infinite mass and you would need infinite energy for move infinite mass, therefore you CANT travel faster than the light.
It also says that when you travel faster the time goes slower. The diference is too little for notice it with normal speeds but if you travel at a speed near of the light one it would be very noticeable.
The effect or that is like if you travel to the future, because if 5 seconds for you are 15 for someone that doesn't move that means that after those 5 seconds you would have "traveled" 10 seconds to the future.
For that extremely fast speeds are needed, and we doesn't have enough technology, but it was tested with a really, really fast jet and two atomic clocks (the best clocks in the world are the atomic ones, they can measure really little times). One of the clocks were on the earth, and the another one on the jet. Before the jet traveled they showed exactly the same time. After the travel they measured diferent times, like 0.00000001 seconds of diference (not much, but that proves that the theory wasnt wrong).
That theory only applies to travels to the future. There isnt any current theory that allows travels to the past, and some people says that they are impossible, because if they were possible we would have people comming from age 4050 to this time.

But it wouldn't have to fill it. A very small change in distance will create a runaway iceage or runaway greenhouse affect.

no, not really. A small change wouldnt change anything: the gravity is the same, the energy that it sends to the Earth is the same, what would happen?

Added note for my evolution thing. Isolated, there is such a thing called mutation. Notice the "weird" things that happen to humans? Extra heads, feet, etc? If those things helped the survival of that organism, it will reproduce and be more common. It's not as far fetched as you think.


Traveling that fast is thought to be impossible by humans. We're not saying we'll be able to do it. We ARE saying it's POSSIBLE.

Just notice that if you run you'll go 0.0000000000000000001 seconds to the future

Expanding on what Clokr_ said...

A test has been conducted, where atomic clocks were put on jet planes that flew around a bit. When the clocks were taken down, their times were later (elapsed faster) than a control clock on the ground.

Same reason the moon reaches some ungodly temperatures.


So you're saying, if we get two people with 6 fingers and have them mate, their children might have 6 fingers?

I was just thinking about something, evolution starts with the big bang theory, right? A very small dot that exploded into the universe. Now, where did this dot come from? Since time always would have to exist, there would have to be a 'past' of infinite years. Now, you could say it took 10 billion years from the dot to get where we are now, but, what about the gazillion years before that? The dot existed as a happy dot that didn't feel like exploding? Even so, what about the years before THAT? What I'm getting at, if there was an infinite amount of time, all the events of evolution and such should already happened infinite amount of years ago.
There has to be a start point where time = 0.

In my opinion, this is what happens:

Species X is on Earth; pretend they're Larvae.
Some of the Species X gets mutation Y, say, Zergling claws.
Speciex Z, say Marines, eats Species X Larvae without mutation Y.
Those of Species X with mutation Y fight back against Species Z win, and eat THEM.
With most of the pre-mutation Y Larvae dead, the Zerglings soon take over the gene pool.

The above has no scientific proof whatsoever and comes only from my logical imagination. Don' use it for school science papers, take heed only as part of the discussion. If and only if you're a biologist exploring the Evolution should you attempt to explore my hypothesis.


Keyword: theory. Time is considered to be the fourth dimension, so THEORETICALLY I suppose the little "dot" to begin with was only 1 dimension, i.e. no time existing.

I said it before and I'll say it again. This is getting pretty deep, we oughta be careful what we say... [garbage... or is it?]If the government finds out we'll all be sniped down![/garbage]

The first part depends entirely upon the genes. If they are dominant, than most likely, yes. If they are recessive, then it will probably not be unless they are homogenius. Sorry about spelling

The second part is entirely theory. I think of it as the plane on which we live on had no mass and it "collapsed" on it self which created a "bang" and we have mass and stuff. Not very likely, but it's cool