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What?! This is a serious dicussion and it will be answered with some serious thoughts!

And your thoughts were serious? That ignorant spamming was the worst post yet, and you guys are spamming even more. Sadly I'm spamming even by writing this post, so I'll have to throw in something intelligent.... Women are too dumb to vote. God made them that way.

Okay... change of thought...I'm now partily with SaLaCiouS(U)

and yes we like to say rediulous, random, meaningless things!

and if you havn't notice I'M BEING SARCASTIC!!!

... Even tho I don't believe in God... however about Salacious saying about carbon-dating... (lets say a dinosaur fossil for example..) maybe God also just made something called 'dinosaur fossil' that has the characterists to be identified by carbon-dating to be millions of years old .. :S just a thought.

Edit Reason: Typo .. and wanted to add something.

I believe in natural selection... everything in it makes sense....

Anyways.. one question - Who made God? Gg

To be true it was the humans, or the people who made the religon, basicly. They use the term God because they thought he controled everything and stuff. And the things they didn't understand so they just blamed it on God.

I believe men live longer back then. I don't think it was 6000 years, don't most creationist say closer to 10,000 years?
On another note, that effects of insest, God certainly has the power to curve those affects. Who knows, perhaps there was no effects to curve in the first place and it was added later on. Perhaps the same reason Aids suddenly appeared out of no where. Minor detail.


Okay... think about this: If God can create the universe, why can't he do the 10 plagues. Sheesh... Why not bring up the "sun standing still" again?


And they won't succeed in "creating" life. Ever. But, haven't you already taken sides?


We were "ideal" until the fall of man.


Um... yeah... by nature, you are sinful. Sinful from the time your mother concieved you. Sin is punishable by eternal damnation. Faith in Jesus brings redemption. Upon judgement, jesus stand between you and god and acts as a purifying looking lense, figuratively speaking.


Tower of Babal. People didn't want to spread through out the world like God wished, so God confused their languages to cause seperation. There is no reason why he didn't seperate their races at that time. Genetics could have easily been a reason here as well. Not mutations, just weeding out of genes in races over time.


We can't really judge them, however, if they are running around killing people, it would appear they wouldn't have faith, no?


Actually, it is quite interesting though. It isn't something to be used as a logical reasoning behind the events of holocaust and matters such of, it just makes one think.

And due to this new thread, I'll transfer an old thought from time travel into here, simply because... the thread is apparently dead now.

Sala takes evolution as a theory. Most evolutions take it as hardcoded truth. You think believing in God is simply impossible because of lack of proof, macro-evolution also lacks proof. There is way too many holes in the logic. Macro-evolution is way too far from being "proven." Micro-evolution does not equal macro-evolution. Micro does not prove macro.

I heard someone tried to dig himself deep into the bible to find out contradictions to write a book upon. It turned him into a believer. Perhaps your stance is the way it is simply because you haven't taken the time to fully dive into evolution to it's fullest, as well as the bible. I'm sure this plays a big part of this. I talked to someone about creationism vs evolution at work, we somehow got into this from talking about Bush. Anyways, he's believes in creation and never studied evolution. I told him that needs to change. Yeah, I'm not evolution expert, my knowledge is very limited. I do try however. Just some of the comments here are just practically stupid. God is all powerful. He can do things like turn water into blood. There doesn't need to be a scientific reason behind it.


My bad... I slept some of the day and watched the OC with a female friend. Sorry for not coming here sooner.

"Who made God?"
Please. What started evolution? Was it the big bang theory? Where did this dot come from? How did this dot defy time? How does evolution defy the concept of infinity? What? Time didn't exist pre-evolution? Please.

Isolated, once again, all your statements are entirly based on faith. If you would like to show REAL proof, then, please, do so. Your only logic is saying god is all powerful, therefore he can do whatever he want. But, if that is true, then how come Humans are not extinct yet? We are by far the most evilest creatures on earth. How come some random guy named Jesus had to die for our sins. I think we should die for our sins.

Like I said, your beliefs are entirely based on faith as well. Again, tell me the events that lead up until the first cell. Start with the beginning, where time was 0. Show me proof. You do agree that somewhere, somehow, time had to equal 0, right? Show me REAL proof that there was no life and then, somehow, "extreme heat" caused life. Show me real proof that this cell evolved into humans, dogs, birds, fish, dinosaurs, etc. A one cell organism evolving into this most gigantic dinosuar is pretty extreme, isn't it? How is that even possible due to "random mutations?" How can some random mutations somehow make perfect wings? Did they evolve non-perfect wings like the penguin and these cells were like, "oh, that was a failed attempt, let's re-try this again" (and yes, penquins don't even have wings). I suppose the birds brain mutated in such a way it has natural instincts to fly south every winter. Why don't these birds just stay down there, OR, evolve into something that can survive the winter. It seems illogical. Either these birds would die during their first winter or, through the process of evolution, adapted to their climate AS they evolved into it.
Show me proof.

You wanna talk more about faith?
You have faith that the scientists know what they are doing. Are they perfect? Can they not make mistakes?
You trust that carbon dating is somehow extremely accurate.
You have faith in your own "bible" to understand the concepts that are way above your head. I know you don't understand all the intricate details of evolution, so you trust that the "paraprashed" version of it's correct.
You have faith in the author of whatever source you are reading from to even know what he is talking about.
You have faith that all the loopholes and missing facts and illogical reasoning behind evolution will somehow be patched up in the future.


Humans aren't extinct simply because it's not God's plan. If he wished it so, we would be dead. We aren't. This doesn't somehow disprove God or God's power. It would defy his love.
Jesus wasn't just some random guy. He was the son of God. He didn't have to die for our sins. God could have done it any other way. I don't know why he chose that way.
And yes, we should die for our sins, but then again, that's where God's love comes into play.

The difference between my faith and yours is mine has evidence. Yours has none.

lmao this thread is funny. There is people with a 0.5IQ here

I wanted to ask you all creationists this question: What about dinosaurs?
Yeah, those bones that you find inside the earth. Did god make dinosaurs and destroy them after? When did god made them if it created the people at the same time than the earth (in a week)? Or they are just people that sees a rabbit bone and thinks "OMFG A DINOSAUR"? lmao

Evidence? EVIDENCE? Lol... I can find "evidence" for any random fact. Take anything that was a theory in science for a long time but was wrong. There *WAS* evidence to support it at the time, no? The thing is, evolutionists will AVOID any evidence that will destroy evolution. Like I said before, you'll never see evolutionists at a volcano. When a volcano erupts, it creates effects like the grand caynon on a much smaller scale. The layers that supposedly needed to take millions and millions of years to make. What else about volcanos? Newly formed rock dates thousands of years old! Carbon dated! Is that not evidence that carbon dating is wrong? What about freshly killed seals carbon dated to also be thousands of years old? I mean, if carbon dating could even possibily be faulty, and it is, wouldn't that destroy many, many "facts" about evolution? Of course it would. Carbon dating is faulty. Evolution relies on carbon dating. That alone makes evolution faulty.

Anwser my questions cheeze. Go ahead, take a stab at it. You too clokr. Show me your higher IQ.


Again, why the insults of intelligence? I mean, if you are so smart, anwser all my questions with proof. Tell me how it all started.
There is no reason they can't exist with humans at start. Why did they die? It could have been the flood, it could have been anything. I don't care how it happened, but sense you back your faith by "evidence" show me the steps between a one cell organism that could randomly mutate into making the biggest dinosaur.

I was not insulting you, I was just saying that who believes that god created everything like the bible said isnt much intelligent.
Even my religion teacher said that god made the world, but not how the bible says. What the bible says is how the people that died 9999 years ago thinked that it was, not how it was. Most of the theories that you say that have 99999 holes they dont, its just that neither we neither you understand/know the full theory, just the part that is written on school books and such.

Btw, you didnt answer me with the dinosaur thingy.

I believe I did. Dinosaurs had to be created in the same week humans were. I don't know how they died, but they did.


Again, blind faith. You trust that the logic behind it patches up the holes. Trust me, whatever logic behind evolution doesn't patch up all 99999 holes. If it did, there wouldn't be a need to have debates between creationists and evolutionists. I'm not talking about our little debates, I'm talking about the debates that go on in a major scale. If evolutionists had all the anwsers, debates would be pointless.

No because creationists continue fighting even when they have proofs?

That's because he loves us all. It's not really our fault that we sin. Blame it on Satan. He deceived Eve, the woman, into making a fatal bite of the apple.

Did God create the earth in 6 literal days? Or did those "days" represent years upon years? "One day is like 1000 years and 1000 years is like a day." It seriously doesn't matter too much what you believe the account of Genesis. Lutherans, Baptists, Catholics, and whatever else can all get to heaven because they basically have the same faith: Jesus was born (God and man), Jesus lived a perfect life, Jesus died a perfect death, Jesus conquered death for us.

MA, it could have very well been a mutral discussion and decision to eat that fruit.


Um... no. Do you think all creationists are stupid and don't understand science? Perhaps that creationists can't become scientists or something? Evolution has many holes. If you believe the theory of evolution is somehow perfect, you have a serious problem.

That is a fault of logic. You can't claim that the proof of God was created by God. Anyone expert at discussions will tell you this is a fualt of logic to claim that.



The Bible explicitly states in it a time when the Earth was created. This was 5,000 or 6,000 years ago, I can't recall which. Something around that ballpark anyway. Your lack of knowledge of your own religion threatens your credibility on the subject. Not that any single religion is to be believed as fact, in fact, it's easy to prove every single religion wrong, simply by stating there are other religions. This does not mean God is non-existent, but it disproves any claims you might have about your specific religion and the "history" held in your holy texts.



Thanks for taking that side though, especially when they are so close to doing it. You set yourself up to either win majestically or fall as an idiot. Now it's only a matter of time.



To believe that faith in Jesus brings redemption is lunacy. This is something only prevalent in the Christian religion, which by definition is automatically wrong. Multiple religions logically means that the beliefs held by some religions are simply those of that religion, no religion is then correct. Not to mention this still doesn't stop prison in-mates from believing in Jesus. Most of them are far more avid believers then you, the discusser, will ever be.



You can believe that if you want but it's a fault of logic to assume they make the same mistakes continously. For something as important as the age of the Earth, I think they would do it countless times, because they wouldn't want to believe it themselves. After all, before that, everyone thought the Earth was 5000 years old. With the discovery of the true age of the Earth, if anything these people would have wanted to HIDE the real date.



You mentioned several times that Carbon-dating is wrong in situations. I've never heard any of those arguments before and I don't think those are true at all. Provide me with your sources if you want to convince me. Carbon-dating is NOT extremely accurate, but it is still accurate enough to tell that the real age of the Earth is not thousands of years, but billions.



You're definetly right here Isolated. Cheeze for example has as much blind faith in evolution as you do in your religion. He doesn't even understand most of the concepts and believes a few that are flatly wrong. People such as him and mostly you too only believe what you are raised on. It would be a great day if people stopped believing only what they are raised on, and opened their minds to new possibilities. You don't have to accept them as the truth, but you should accept them as a possibility. And if you don't believe them, be prepared to argue your point accuarately, logically, and with facts.



Evolution has it's holes like any other theory. I'm not exactly sure what they are though. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that supports it, that can only be explained with the reasoning that "God is trying to trick us", and as we all know it is a fault of logic to claim that things are the way God made them because God made them that way. This does not prove the existence of God.



Wow millenium, do you believe that bull ? Did you know that male dominance over women in the christian religion is based on one thing? Jealousy. The men were jealous that women got multiple orgasms and more pleasure from sexual intercourse, so they condemned it. What an interesting little tidbit of knowledge. Of course, that's just what I think, but to deny the logic behind my reasoning is futile.

I could care less what the number of years the universe existed, it doesn't matter too much. If these smart people who figure this stuff out say 6,000 years, so be it. If 10,000 years, okay, fine.


lol... yeah, what if they can't create life though? Then what? You see the problem here is that this creation of life could always need more time, that scientists can't do it in the present, but perhaps, you know, in another 200 years. You'll die waiting for this to happen. No, scientists will never admit the fact life and the essence thereof, could never be created. It'll disprove evolution, wouldn't it? No, scientists will never come to such of a conclusion. I hope you understand that.


Uh... So if I created a theory that evolution happened some other way, it would disprove the current theory of evolution simply because now there's more than one theory? You should rethink that. It's illogical. Just because there is more than one religion doesn't mean they disprove each other. I can point out Catholic errors with pure logic. If someone can point out errors in my own religion in any shape or form, go ahead. Of course in order to do that, you would have to study it.


They would make the same mistakes continously if they were using the same system, ie, carbon dating.
I gave these sources in another thread with syndicate. I'll post them again when I don't feel too lazy. Don't blame my laziness, *coughtutorialscough* *nudge*.


See though, I am open minded. I don't accept my religion on blind faith, I question it. I can come up with some hardcore questions that probably can't be anwsered by any christian. Much better questions than the weak ones I see here. I can doubt and I do. Why rule out evolution? It just seems to stupid. If they can create life and show real proof of this and that, I might actually start to think about it.


There is no dominance besides men should be the head of the household. If you want to get into a discussion about that, we can. I already explained my own personal theory about the adam and eve thing. Just because eve ate the apple first doesn't mean somehow, she was weaker.

You know I think it would be best to leave these questions unanswered.
Their not ready to be answered so lets just closed the thing. Till the time is right to answer those questions. And please stop refuring to your religons, If you keep on doing that your making this a religous thing.

Proof that people do go to heaven:

' For God so loved the world, that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shal not suffer, but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it but to save the world through Him '

- John 3:16

And

' For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast. '

- Ephesians 2:8,9


These DIRECTLY state that people do go to heaven (i.e. they're saved)


About 99% of the earth's population beleives theres SOME kind of god.

And dont let anyone tell you that the Muslim God, Allah, is the same as the Jewish and Christian God. They are not one. Period.



Im making this as i read, so if there are repeats, please forgive me.


Faith is exactly that, Based on beleifs...


He was not "some random guy". He was conceived by the holy spirit in the virgin mary...



Maybe, since God's time is obviously different than ours... his seven days are what we perceive as 4 billion years? Just a thought...



Then its not a faith...


I agree with that. If All cells originated from a small batch of cells in that "primordial soup", they split to recrate, no? Thus they have the same information and the carbon stays the same!


Where? All i see is:
' In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. '
Genisis 1:1


Thats just bull ... im sorry but it is!



To sum it all up, Why NOT believe, what do you have to lose? Maybe a few hours out of your week, hell! Maybe even less! But you have everything to gain.
Now for those who DON'T believe, you have everything to lose and nothing to gain...




Maybe redemption has stories to tell
Maybe forgiveness is right where you fell
Where can you run to escape from yourself?
Where you gonna go?
Where you gonna go?
Salvation is here

I Dare you to move!

I created god. I am always right. Prove me wrong.



You dont belive in multiple orgasms? No way, dude... Ive seen it happen with my own two eyes.

Ok, I better get started...



No, I don't think creationists are stupid. I think they have their information wrong.



I'm not as blinded as you think. It's simple, there are two choices. One is evolution. One is creation. I vote evolution. Anything that is for it, I will support. Unless it's simply bull . Which, so far, nothing in here stated for it is. Except for some random idiots.



Now, you are being sexist. Women can do anything you can do (seriously, don't with this sentence). They are just as brilliant as men and possibly even smarter. I know plenty of smart girls.



Give me those questions that christianity can't answer. I'll even take on their role and answer it. Actually, I'll answer it before you say anything. "God did it."
For the second part, what about the fossils that have similar bone structures as us? Links of other species that are similar but show slight changes through the different layers of rocks. Most people I used this with simply said "Maybe God did it." Wait a minute, wasn't that the answer for your questions?



At least give us link to that thread. Going against carbon dating is almost the same thing as challenging the theory of chemistry. Isotopes to be more specific.



I'm not attack your religion, I'm attacking the bible. Which you have so much faith in. I don't care what religion you are, the bible contridicts it self and the idea of god being real is stupid to me. Just like you think evolution is stupid. Except I have science.



Nope. Even if scientists can't get real life to come from non living things, it still doens't prove anything. We do not know what the conditions were for back then. We will most likely never find out either.



Untrue. You cannot just spend a few hours out of your week. It must be 24 hours a day for 7 days in a week for the rest of your life. A single moment of no faith in god will result in the same consequence as us. Don't worry, nothing will happen.

As for everything to gain and nothing to lose...pfft. I'm losing 2 hours a week at least and I'm not going to do that. I have nothing to gain and 2 hours a week to lose. I'd rather gain nothing through death and gain something in life.



Yea, and he also created light without the suns.



Exactly.



Yeah, god did all of this. Just to make our life suffer. So we would have this arguement.



And no proof.



You're assuming the bible is correct. Stop that. Give me real evidence.



And yet, the bible cleary states there is one god. You know, this is more confusing than I thought.

EDIT: whats with the quotes?

Okay kow?
Did you read my post before yours?
YOUR GOING INTO YOUR DAMN RELIGON!!!!
TRY TO STAY OFF THAT AND GET WITH REALITY!!!

Im pretty sure quotes die if you have to many of them. I was having this conversation with Illusion(SS) and we kept replying to the same pm and eventually the quote went BOOM and the world of Chill fell into a deep sadness.

I think it does matter if something specifically in your Holy text is proved to be completely wrong. This isn't even the only thing. There aren't actually that many because the Bible is very vague but there are a few things in it that the people who wrote it decided to stick in there because they figured we'd never be able to prove them wrong. Well we did, and once again the Bible is not fact, it is not even history, it is a collection of UNTRUE stories written by different people.



Actually Darwin who came up with the theory of evolution came around at the end of the 1800's I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think I can live a hundred years, and we're very close to creating life, if it is possible we'll be done with it soon. Also, you seem to have Evolution and Spontaneous Generation mixed up. The two have nothing to do with eachother, Darwin for instance believed that God put the original cells on Earth. This is an entirely acceptable theory if you believe in God and Evolution. Also, even if Spontaneous Generation is disproven, again, then that God and Evolution theory still holds.



I explained my meaning very poorly. Basically what I'm saying is, why should we believe your religion? There are dozens and dozens of others. Why is your religion at the head of the pack? A little thing called the Crusades. Your followers went around murdering everyone who wasn't a Christian. Wow, nice religion you've got there.



Actually we know EXACTLY what the conditions were. You see, if we find old rocks, and break them open, there are pockets of gas in them that contain the gases that were in the atmosphere billions of years ago. Furthermore, by looking at the layers of Earth around these rocks, we can figure out exactly what was available for life to spring from.



That reasoning is not bull . It's exactly what the Christians SAID they were doing! They told everyone that a woman is a weaker vessel because of her insatiability for sex. You can't deny factual information. You would have to be a fool to do so.



This is the logic behind you religious zealots. You all have your own version of what "salvation" is. You think that, oh, if I waste a large period of my life devoted to thanking some schizophrenic with a master plan far grander than Hitler's, I will automatically go to Heaven. That's bull . Time for my theory about Jesus:

Jesus was an evil genius. One big ing evil genius. He was not the son of God, and he was probably schizophrenic like all prophets. His plan? If he is a martyr for a new religion, he can create a race of jew-killers, and it worked! 2000 years of people doing nothing but murdering Jews. Woopdee ing doo da.

Also, another thing about your so called "salvation". When your religion was new, people were allowed to BUY their way into Heaven. The catholic church offered people free tickets to heaven if they payed them a bunch of money. Worse yet, they claimed you could BUY other peoples' way out of HELL. That is to say, if your grandfather was a sinner, you could pay the pope and he would say some magic words and magically your grandfather goes to Heaven! These are the roots of your religion, and it's all bull . What do you say to that?



Yes he is. You are a fool. You don't know anything about your own religion or Islam. It's merely three branches of the same religion. The jews just don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, but are otherwise mostly similar. The Islamic people also have the addition of Mohammed's so-called new Holy texts. It is a well known fact that Mohammed was a schizophrenic who thought he could see angels. Anyone ever heard of the Mormans? Their leader said exactly the same thing as Mohammed did, but he was condemned. Why the double standard?



Carbon dating is not faulty and you have yet to provide and links to any sources that claim it is. More importantly, you people don't even understand the process of carbon dating. You don't even understand basic chemistry. These facts are undeniable truths about existence. You do believe in electricity, plastic, and drugs don't you? I'm sure a bunch of you have used some of these things before. They were all created using chemical knowledge, the same chemical knowledge that proves carbon dating works. So if you want to go ahead and deny the existence of carbon dating, you have to deny the existence of electricity and plastics too.

Some information I forgot:

Just a little tidbit of funny information. Modern physics seems to suggest and require that there is a God, but that he is not all-powerful as you claim he is. The universe is really.. a bunch of bull . A lot of stuff makes no sense. It's like some retarded programmer added in some "cheeze" (as Isolated calls them) to the Universe.