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If you have a church on something that doesnt make it exist, If you write a long book about it that doesnt make it exist either, Leonardo's picture code that was shown on national geographic doesnt really mean god existed,
But god exists and doesnt exists
God is me and we and all and none,
You think you control your thoughts, but he made you think that,
You think he is everywhere, but he is nowhere,
you ask him for help but he doesnt help you,
at the same time he does help you and if he saved you,
he would have destroyed you.

Very hard. It's like the real thing and the parodies are pretty much the same.

Pssh. You're all wrong. Everyone knows that god is Bolt.

Insulent fools...

God: "Hey triton, I'm gonna go create a new race just for fun."

Triton: "What you gonna do now? Kill em? that gets old."

God: "No, better."

Triton: "What? Oh, please don't go down there and give them world peace and all that stupid boring ."

God: "Hahahaha! What the hell you talking about? I said this was gonna be for fun.

Triton: "I hope so."

God: "I'm gonna create this race of people, raise them for just a lil bit, then just let them go."

Triton: "Huh? I don't quite follow."

God: "Check it out, this time i'm not gonna kill them. They're gonna kill each other."

Triton: "How so?"

God: "Cause I'm not going down there!"

Triton: "I thought you were gonna raise them."

God: "I'm just gonna raise them a little bit, then I'm gonna leave."

Triton: "Well, at least teach them fire. Took those stupid grays millions of years to find that ."

God: "Ya. And I'll be sure to give them a language to speed it up."

Triton: "well, if you want them to kill each other, you need to make them look different, and speak different."

God: "Ya, you're right. You were always a thinker."

Triton: "Ya, that's what catholic school does to you."

God: "And you're an atheist! Hahahaha!"

Triton: "Of course I am. God never existed."

God: "Prove it."

Triton: "How?"

God: "What created the universe? Eh?"

Triton: "I don't know."

God: "Something must've."

Triton: "Who gives a , we've been through this a thousands times, just go start the race. I'm bored."

God: "Nice way to end an arguement."

Triton: "Shut up."

God: "...Anyways, hmmmm...where was I?"

Triton: "Some thing about ummmm...hmmm...Raising them?"

God: "hmmmm...oh yes! Ya! I was gonna raise them just a little bit. Just enough so they can talk, and establish governments. You know, basic ."

Triton: "Make sure it's different goverments."

God: "It's ALWAYS different goverments. Unless I'm down there or something."

Triton: "Heh, oh ya."

God: "Anyways, after I raise them just a few decades. Not even. I'm gonna leave."

Triton: "Ok. Gonna leave any rules behind?"

God: "Ya, gonna leave like 10 or 20. But they'll bull rules. Like, "No man shall leave the planet."

Triton: "No, you got to make some of them serious. Races are usually not THAT stupid."

God: "True, true. I'll leave in like, don't kill anybody or something. And like, forgive everyone. I don't know, I'll figure out the details when I get down there."

Triton: "Ya, it'll be easy as hell to make."

God: "Hell? I thought you were an atheist."

Triton: "Oh, come on, you're a deist! We're almost the same!"

God: "Heh...Well, cya later. I got to wake up for school next year. Getting kinda late."

Triton: "Same here. I got some major homework. Time Travel Mathamatics. Stupid . I'll never use it. I'm not gonna be a physics programmer."

God: "I am. I'm taking Algebra 50. In just a few years, I'll be able to start using G+++++++++++. Gonna make Fire melt Ice. No one believes it's possible."

Triton: "You're crazy."

God: "Hell, I'm gonna try it out on this planet."

Triton: "Hahahaha! Good luck! Math freak."

God: "You calling me a dork?"

Triton: "Ya, I am. You havn't had a girl in forever!"

God: "Pffffff, I'm just waiting for the one."

Triton: "Hahahahaha!"

God: "....That's it, I'm going to bed."

Triton: "I bet you get some stable girl. Hahahahahahaha!"

God: "God damnit, go yourself. Good Night."

omg... Alpha(MC)... that was the best text I've ever read in my life... infect... you almost caused me to belive in god for a minute... but comedy overcome that...


OMFG I CAN'T STOP ROFLOLMFAO!!!!!

where did you find it? or did you write it yourself?!!?!

lol.... thats a sin alpha... making fun of god-.-;

LOL, great post alpha!

Heres a tip for you guys, If god doesnt exist why do we believe in him? I mean think about it, how hard would it be to think of something like god if the notion had never come up in the world before?

There can be many answers to that yes but its still a relevant question (ex of answer: People needed something to explain what was going on)
And yes that answer is very valid but still why not belive that your king or emporer made it happen?

We as humans need for God to exist, this does not mean that he is real but he could be just an idea.

Most ideas are just ideas but look at how many ideas have turned into a reality.

Amen temp...

God is real but he is incarnated in a human and doesn't seem to be real to the untrained eye. Do you wonder how someone could survive things like a 150 mile per hour car crash? WELL ITS GOD DOING IT.

hahahaha alpha that hilarious

seriusly, people, there is no god! stop arguing about it!

till there is no real profe that god is real there is no point of beliving him, just the fact that many other do doesn't mean you should to.

it's just like if everyone were injecting poison to themselves every day - would you do that do?
god is just a fhansasy... no more... I belive in Final Fantasy more than god also... I never played FF but it still seems more realistic than... 'god'

Hehehe can you "Disprove" God? Haven't heard anything about that. Then lets try another topic:

Can you prove or disprove Jesus Christ being God? Now THERES a possible question to answer.

Lord, Liar, Lunatic <- The three possibilities. Either he was God, he wasn't God and knew it, or he wasn't God and didn't know it. Now bicker! Yay blather and bickering!

God is real. You can't even dispute that. I don't think he created anything though.

ADDITION:
Also Jesus was not the Son of God and he never said he was.

ADDITION:
I know he was quoted as to having have said that but they added that in later.

God is just an idea people made up to explain things, and it still happens today. Unless someone invents the time machine and takes world authorities to view religious events (Which happened and were exaggerated, or just never happened) Jesus/God/Moses/Allah/blabla/all that bull , can't be proven or disproven.
Remember that religion was created by people that believed the Earth was flat, by people that wanted power, or just exaggerated stories that included drug abuse.

Religion and god.. just ideas. If god does exist somehow, we'd be wise to stfu, and pay attention to more meaningful things, because god is obviously just another part of reality, same as gravity - we can't do anything about it.

Never spread subversive, unpatriotic opinions of an evil tyrant, and never question anything he does. Why else do you think Hitler burned books, killed writers and poets, and terminated academic education?


If the Earth if round, why do some people still believe it's flat? (Namely, fundamentalist Christian organizations, and primitive cultures).


Never? Not even the Egyptians or Greeks?


Gods often take the form of some father figure, which is a theme from childhood. It could be possible that we evolved the idea of god because it served as a placebo, benefitting our psychological health. It's probably just a vestigial feature now. This is just my hypothesis.

The "need for God to exist" can sometimes be detrimental. Since some parents choose to submit their children to faith healing in lieu of modern medicine, sometimes resulting in the death of the child.


Leprechuans are real, and they won't exist unless you believe they exist. Do you wonder how that one guy won the lottery? It couldn't have just happened by chance, it was a leprechuan doing it.

What about all the people who don't survive car crashes? Do you simply not count those against God? If there are hundreds of car crashes a day, is it really that suprising when a few of them survive? If I shoot 50 basketballs into a basket, and only 1 lands in the basket, is that really a miracle? Yeah, I'll just count that one shot, and ignore the rest. Not only that, but since it's such a miracle, does it warrant the conclusion that this is the doing of invisible pink fairies, Zeus, or Vinshu?


Hehehe, can you "Disprove" Zeus? Haven't heard anything about that.

Can you prove or disprove the existence of Zeus? Now THERE'S an obvious fallacy.

As I've said before, believing in something because it has been proven true is not of the same proposition as believing in something because it has not been debunked. If I assert the existence of garden demons, is it upon me to prove my claim, or upon the skeptic to disprove my claim? And since the skeptic can not disprove garden demons (because something that does not exist can't possibly leave behind evidence that it does not exist), should he not go outside at night, just in case? However, if he takes the stance false until shown to be true, he won't fall for any of my bulls***.

In science, the burden of proof lies on the person making the affirmative claim, not the one making the negative claim. So, Christians are the ones who must prove the existence of God, and the atheist shouldn't have to disprove anything because they are not making an affirmative claim. If you can't disprove Zeus, will you bother believing in him? If the existence of garden demons hasn't been debunked, are you not going to go outside at night in case they do exist?

Let's play a game. I shall assert the Earth is flat. Gravity bends light in space so that it makes the Earth appear round, so all the NASA pictures we have of a round Earth are decieving. No one has never circumnavigated the Earth, it's just that when they reach the end, they enter a wormhole and are taken back to the beginning like a packman game. Now, should I have to be the one who proves these assertions? Or is it upon you guys to disprove the BS I just claimed?


False trioctomy. It's like saying 1+1 is either 6, 10, or 90, when there could be other possibilities. Jesus could have been misquoted in the Bible, or never even existed.

And you can't confirm it.

It's something you can't really prove but you must accept. If you dont think he exists, then it's up to you.



God doesn't really speak to ppl like that unless they're a destined prophet or something. I doubt anyone living on earth is one right now.



The church is built for christians to serve god and praise him.



Like your arguments against god are any better?



That's the most retarded, dumbest, immature thing i've ever heard. It doesn't even make any sense at all. But of course there's nothing i can do about it



He does exist, you can't prove it neither could you really disprove it. Now you can't really change anyone's mind about God nor their beliefs in it.



If you really are against us arguing about god's existence, just leave. That's what these forums are for.



People believe in god not because others are doing it, but because they chose to.


It's not sad if you dont believe in God but it is pretty sad if you believe in Final Fantasy. Believing some virtual reality game made by humans just proves how much you really dont have a life.



Yea that's what i've been telling everyone. And everyone that is Anti-God just doesn't seem to be able to answer that question and provide valid proof.



Umm... it's because he said he was the Son of God which we are having this argument. Even those that dont believe in God KNEW that he claimed it.



Hitler is a madman and think's hes the true christian by killing all jews.



People are like that all the time. Even when there's evidence to the contrary, people are stubborn and still think their way is the right way.



Humans were made with the belief in god already planted in their minds. it's because of sin coming into the world that some people begin to forget about god, thus forming their own religions and arguing that god doesn't exist.



Same could go with God. If you TRULY believe god exists, then he will be there for you. If you dont believe in God, he wont be there for you thus making you more inclined to not believing in him.



Then plz explain why historical documents other than the bible state that Jesus Exists?



You can't truly confirm his non existance really. If you dont believe in god, he knows that and will just stay out ofyour life, make you more incline to believe in his nonexistance

That's because instead of people saying "Look! A miracle from God!", we have scientists who try to find the reason for the cause.

I believe it's human nature to learn as much as possible, probably why our brain's are so much better and power than other animals.

So if we use learning and reasoning as well as research, we can find explanations for just about everything. To do otherwise is ignorance.

Wonder why people study the effects of absolute zero? Matter at such a temperature will do things that we cannot explain. Should we call this a miracle or should we try and discover the reasons.


Why does it have to be in a church? Why do we need churchs to serve someone who refuses to show his face and praise someone who refuses to give salvation to mistakes.

Churchs are built on things, somethings may even be considered unholy to that religion, but that fact remains unknown. Does that mean the church is a bad place? How could it be? If no one knows about that unholiness there, then there's nothing to worry about!

But wait! If we don't know about something, and it automatically means there's nothing to worry about, then what if the idea of god never came to existance?


His arguements are much, much, much better if you were more open-minded instead of being so religious. You really should think about the views more often. Instead of only focusing on your religious view, try to view the world if you thought god didn't exist and reasoning was everything.
Which one sounds better:
-"Worship in this Church or Eternal Hell awaits you!"
-"Chemicals bond because of charges in the atoms. Here are the evidence..."


You're one hundred percent correct! I can't change your mind! Why do I bother posting all this BS?
Actually, the reason for that is simple: I'm simply finding the faults in your "perfect religion".
I call it perfect because you chose that religion. It must automatically mean others are wrong. Otherwise, all of your statements you just said can be considered void and be just thrown out the window because it's in the wrong religion.


I don't think that's the right reason. Way back in the days, whenever the church's reformation began, people critisized one another for being in the "wrong" religion. The views were held intensely, and death threats were very common.

As a result, people then, doing the most logical thing to avoid death, was to join a religion. Which one was "correct" is still a mystery. Now then, this view has been held for many many years. In fact, it's still true today, except on a lesser scale. In fact, it even sounds better.
(Refer to the picture by Drunken) "Eternal Salvation or TRIPLE your money back!"

Doesn't that sound much better than "Join this religion or god will punish your soul in hell for all eternity."?

Now ask yourself, what gave you the idea of joining a religion?


This is the funniest arguement ever. Believing in Final Fantasy is just as "bad" as believing in god. There is no proof that the world of Final Fantasy is fake. Similarly, there is no proof that god is fake.

It's strange, you say it's absurd to believe in something because it's just a game made by humans. Why not try to think like that while replacing "a game" with "an idea of god".


What if Jesus was just a crazy guy? What if he had a twin brother. After the "real" Jesus died, the brother hid everything, and brought Jesus back to life.

Hey, after reading this thread, anything's possible. I mean, what are the chances of the idea of god getting into a human's head and then him, getting enough resources to make it world wide and so popular?


His actions would have been perfectly fine if it had been in the 1400's. We all know it's wrong now. We know a lot more than those crazy religious people back in those days. Why did we ever listen to those people.


It's so ironic that you think that.


What about the home sapiens who were not intelligent enough to have the idea of god and only hunted those stupid fat mammoths. Obviously, they're going to hell because they didn't believe in a creator.


That's circular logic. You're saying because god is there, I should believe in him. Because I believe in him, god is there.

If you want it in math terms, it's like this: a = b, b = a, but it has no relation to c.


Because people like you make the bible sound like it really happened.

Also, what other "historical documents" do you speak of?


I love this site: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ce/4/part2.html
Found it off drunken so special thanks to him

Did nobody read post #40 on the burden of proof?

You can't use science to find the causes of miracles.


Did i say it has to be ONLY in a church? No i didn't. I was just explaining what a church was as opposed to what someone else earlier said.


That was then, this is now. We dont live in a country where religion is required or you will be threatened. We have freedom of religion.


Religion and science yes are two different things, but just because i believe in religion doesnt mean i dont believe in science.


Jesus had one brother (james i believe). Neither the bible nor history has any bad actions of his accounted.


What the hell does that mean? Are u saying that there is valid evidence against christianity yet i still choose to believe in it?


Did we find any proof that they didnt believe in a creator? No we didn't. Some of them might've


U fail to interpret what im saying. Being there for you is different from existing. If you truly believe in him, he will be there for you. If u dont, he wont be there for you yet he still exists. Either way, he exists, whether you choose to believe in it or not.


You're saying nothing in the bible happened? Then explain how the Temple in Jeruselum came to being if there were no Bible.

And as for the historical documents, if you look at some old books (cant remember them off the top of my head) they do speak of his existance but nothing really of his religiousness. And also, history textbooks also say he exists. I do believe that these school related stuff were forbidden to teach anything from the bible so they got the info about jesus elsewhere.

Yeah, why are those stupid scientists researching things like Absolute Zero and Fusion? I mean, come on, there is no way things can defy the laws of gravity and energy being greater than the amount being put in. It can only be explained by a miracle, therefore, god must exist!


Alright, good for you. Now explain my other argument on churches.


Wow, you know what change means. Good job. So, does that mean people of the past's actions were stupid? They had to be stupid! I mean, why would you threaten someone because they aren't in your "perfect" religion.

But wait, if Luther and his buddies were stupid, then does that mean their little argument with the Catholic church to be wrong?! Does that mean all Lutherans that exist today are in the wrong religion?!

Man, choosing the right religion is so difficult! There are so many different ones to choose from! So many gods too! Which one should I obey to?! I know! I'll make up my own religion, that way, I know I'm right, but you won't know! Hahaha, I'm so smart.


Yup, believing in religion simply contradicts lots of science beliefs. But you can believe both if you want to. Remember, what god doesn't know, can't hurt him!


No way! Your arguments are perfectly valid. But they are flawed and you are too close-minded to see it. Don't worry, people like you entertain me, so you have a purpose. And, just like the matrix, if you have a purpose, you will never die.


Ah, so you assume something to be correct to fit your argument?

The Reasoning must be changed to match the Facts.
Not the Facts should be changed to match the Reasoning.

Also, you never answer my other question. Would they go to hell then? They had no idea god existed, thus, they had nothing to worship. Would the "loving and caring" God send them to hell because he decided not to show his face to them?!


Yup, just like that atheist person who recovered from cancer, out of the hundreds of religious people who was suffering worse than him. Man, if I believe in him, I won't be in as many car crashes. Wow, I should probably believe in him, it will allow me to drive faster while it rains on the high way. Maybe even climb a tree during a thunderstorm! What are the chances of god throwing lightning at the tree I'm climbing? One of his believers!


It's not at all uncommon to use a city that is in existence in a book. I've read plenty of books that mention Washington D.C., or San Fransico. So, because they mention that place, and that place exists, that must mean the books is a fact!


Yeah, I can write a story saying he exists too. So then, because there is a story he exists, he must exist.


Very Good Site: http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs.html

Note: You fail to mention my other arguments. Does that mean they're right?! That's impossible! A view from an atheist that is correct?!

Oh how i love doing this. I could go on arguing about this with you but i feel as though it should stop.

No i dont agree with many of your facts but i know it's useless going on with this argument because people like you will never agree with views people like me possess. It's useless so im going to say no more.

Excuse me for being direct and rude: DUH! Which is why I posted the question after it which you for some reason ignored even though you put it as part of the quote.

Which are..
Well lets see... Jews were obsessed with accuracy... they would put a line of hair between each letter and if they screwed up on one letter or puncuation mark, they would have to scrap it and do it all over again (I pity the Jew who might have screwed up while writing Psalm 119) Also, the Bible is 0.02% accurate isn't it? I believe its that one thing where it bases the original manuscripts with the later manuscripts of the Bible and checks for disreprencies... Whats that thing called again? I can't remember (Homer's Illiad comes to mind for some reason)

But wait of course, those kiniving desciples of his wrote the book, not a Pharisee of the Law who disliked Jesus. But no, they could not have been misquoted because of the fact of the Pharisees despised him. His teachings were radical ideas. "Love one another", stating that God is his Father multiple times, "when one person insults you about your theology, let him strike also" and all those other crazy teachings. I'm pretty sure that the Jews wouldn't make up a story about some crazy guy and then have Saul (A very devout Pharisee) for some random reason become Paul and preach throughout the province of Asia. It doesn't add up. Please find holes in this WHOLE paragraph of thinking, for I am using the argument on a chronological scale and the extremely radical ideas. Pharisees wouldn't want to stir up the crowd with something like this with the Romans looking over their shoulder either.

Now about him not existing: Again, I don't think the Jews would agree with Jesus being some myth or fairytale. Hmm, I wonder if Jesus's trial would have been put under Roman parts, like for example, would it have been written in the Roman jails about releasing of trials of prisioners like today? We'll see

U fool, i didnt say those. CHeeze did!

YEESH! You're all quote crazy and wrong! Lemme condense it all, God exists if you think he exists but if you think he exists he doesnt exist
God controls your thoughts and you disagree with that because you think you control your own thoughts but he made you think that.
God doesnt exist, but if you believe he exists he still doesn't but he does.
God heals you if you think hes going heal you, but if you don't think so he wont heal you, altogether he will kill you.
God loves death and hates people,loves people and destroys life, destroys his love and thus, he doesn't love it.
God is in the bible, and the bible is nowhere, but people have it everywhere, and if you look in it god isn't there.
god is named after gods so he doesn't really have a specific name, but he does to Jehova's witnesses, and they all agree that god will kill us when in the bible it says he loves us.
1+1=Chair
If you don't go to someone else's funeral, they wont come to yours.

God hates/loves us and he will Heal/kill us and he definitely does/doesn't exist.
Happy?


P.S.
I resent that, do not bring my wife into this.

In other words, if you believe, then you'll see believing makes sense. Circular logic.


I doubt anyone ever was.


If there is a god, I don't think you'll find him in a place known to take your money, wash your brain, discredit scientific advances, and rape your kids.




I guess everyone just missed my post about how it's folly to believe in something just because it hasn't been proven false, and how the burden of proof isn't on the skeptic, but on the person making the affirmative claim. Post #40 it was.


Instead of addressing his point, you make a personal attack on him. Nice.



My hypothesis is more plausible because I start with what is already known, and don't multiply entities (such as God, fall of Adam & Eve, or anything that hasn't been ascertained) needlessly.

Before your explaination becomes as valid as mine, you'd have to prove God actually does exist (the Christian god, in this case), and that there was a fall in the Garden of Eden. Until then, you make superfluous assumptions that the law of parsimony would simply ignore.

See Occam's Razor.



You could insert any entity in place of God to explain this event. Such as Zeus, Anubus, my alleged Leprechaun, the ghost of the Taco Bell dog's mother, Bob the chocolate grape diety - and they would all yield the same explainatory power, that is none.

They are neither capable of confirmation or falsification, but applying Occam's Razor, you don't need those assumptions to explain the phenomena.

Again, you should start with what is already known, in my case with the lottery ticket, the phenomena can easily be explained by the law of great numbers. It doesn't make any superfluous assumption to explain the phenomena, and it's something that's already known to be true. Invoking God however, is unparsiminous because it isn't a well-established fact.


And if you believe in God, you'll be more prone to believe in him.

In this particular statement, you do at least make some testable predictions. I congratulate you for that. All you need to do now is run some experiments. Maybe you could drop 50 people off a cliff who believe in God, to see if he will save them, and drop 50 people who do not believe in God to see if it yields a different result.


Without details on the observations, I can only offer possible explanations - Delusions, hallucinations, even outright lying and fraud.


Absolutely. Because something that doesn't exist can't leave behind evidence it doesn't exist.

ADDITION:

Oh, yes you can. Well, actually, it depends on how you define "miracle." Me suriviving a cold? Probably not a miracle now (althought it would be hundreds of years ago, and people would invoke unparsimionus entities such as God). Surviving a car crash? That seems more acceptable, but physics can explain it.


Hm, I think Dark Magneto puts it best when he says:



Why did god have to write two testements? He should have just wrote a rough draft first to avoid embarassing mistakes.


Geez, you're inconsistent. First, there's no evidence against the existence of FF events or characters, and yet, you insult Mr. Coop for believing in FF. I guess Coop can say the same for you, since there is no evidence God doesn't exist (you're actually right about that one), and you choose to believe in God.


They didn't believe in your particular God, so they must be going to Hell, even though they had no rational reason to even suspect that was ever the case. What about the Greeks? They never even heard of your particular God, are they in Hell for non-belief?

What about third-world tribes that are oblivious to the rest of the world? They probably have their own alleged god to explain things such as thunder, volcano eruptions, a Fed-Ex planes flying by. The only way they can known about your particular God is if a missionay comes to them, gives them food to entice them before the big brainwash, and tells them all about this God character. Are they going to Hell too?


Well, the writers of the Bible were most likely real people who may have written some real things. I can write about my trip to the pool across Main Street, where I met a magic genie, but since there exist a Main Street, does there also exist a genie that I claimed to have met?

Don't believe everything you read.

ADDITION:

Ah, so you do concede it's a fallacy?


Excuse me for being direct and rude, but since it's a fallacy of shifting the burden of proof, it's a totally vacuous and illogical post, not to mention asinine in my opinion.


Three. Possibilities aren't limited to 6, 10, and 90. Just like possibilities of prohibition aren't limited to embargoing of drugs or pure sanction. Another possibility is a drinking age of 21. Just like possibilities of Jesus aren't limited to Lord, Liar, Lunatic. I wasn't making any assertions, just alternative possibilities.


Can you help me clear this slight contradictions then?

4k, or 40k?
(1 Kings 4:26) Solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses for his chariots, and 12,000 horsemen.
(2 Chronicles 9:25) Now Solomon had 4,000 stalls for horses and chariots and 12,000 horsemen, and he stationed them in the chariot cities and with the king in Jerusalem.

Who's the father of Joseph?
(Matthew 1:16) Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah.
(Luke 3:23) When [Jesus] began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli,

Is God ominpoent?
(Jer.32:17) Ah Lord God! ... there is nothing too hard for thee.
(Jg.1:19 ) And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.