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Staredit Network -> Serious Discussion -> Beginner, Average, Advanced,Über?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wolf on 2005-01-23 at 01:32:46
is there a between average and advance, because if there is thats were i am
Report, edit, etc...Posted by AqoTrooper on 2005-01-23 at 13:11:51
QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Jan 22 2005, 11:26 PM)
See, to prove that you are something, you don't need to waste your time making this superlong RPG that has millions of side missions and spells and other special effects. You just need to make one simple map that shows you can make a complex system with triggers and mostly triggers. When I say "complex system," I do not mean burrow detection, item usage, turn-based battle, or grids. I mean something that nobody has dared thought of before. Don't think about the impossible, like "omgomgomg I'm gonna make 0 locations bound". Make something that you think is complex. Once you get that down, you can slowly move up to Über. Perhaps I'm rambling or maybe I'm not. But hey talking about all this just gave me a really cool idea.
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You're so totally right, really, but that's the fact being an Uber today is that hard - all the new tricks and discoveries were already discovered, it is impossible creating a totally new ones, just versions of existing things.

And yes, simple maps are way better than complex maps, some makers in bnet should really take that in mind.

QUOTE(Zerg Playing Dead @ Jan 22 2005, 06:55 AM)
I am sort of like Ago...
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

IT'S A 'Q'!!! A 'Q'!!!
NOT A G! A Q!!! GOD DARNIT!!!

QUOTE(Yoshi da Sniper @ Jan 22 2005, 05:55 AM)
I'm uber skill, but I have it set to "not making maps", because im not. I tried to make it descriptive for everyone. When they see your skill and it says "none", but then they see that you dont make maps either, people can assume you're here to have fun, play some maps in progress, download some maps, and participate in the forums giving feedback to other peoples work. You don't have to know a thing smile.gif
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True that, people here don't have to know a thing, but is that what we're discussing here?

Imho, the real problem about deciding what's everyone's real skill level is the way it's defined.

I define it as actual skill - how good are the maps you make.
some others define it as knowledge - how much you know about map making.
and some just think that having 'advanced' under their name make them look cooler. (you know who I'm talking about...)

Maybe this should be reformated and instead of skill level there will be two things:
Skill and Knowledge.
So that people will put advanced in their knowledge but none in skill.

Yes - helping people who ask quastions and memorising every single condition, action and glitch is nice and all, but if that's all you do and you don't make maps your skill is NOTHING!

comon people, don't you agree?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-01-23 at 13:24:09
I agree simple maps are better than complex ones, take Dodgeball and Football for example, and most of the other sports maps, simple concepts but great gameplay and high replayability, thats they key!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-01-23 at 15:17:55
Some of good simple maps have very complex triggering, or some really new concepts, but people don't tend to notice these things as much or really care. They just play it because it's cool.

Just a thought, who here has asked to be set to the Über skill level? I didn't know if people did that often, or if most people here don't give a crap.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Otaku on 2005-01-26 at 04:02:39
meh, im definitely average =P. I never seem to finish a god@#$% map lol, but I literally have like 30 unfinished maps...

<---- lazy tongue.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by RexyRex on 2005-01-26 at 16:39:31
I would say my skill could be set to Uber if I wanted it to be that way. But I'm not spending hours plotting/making a system for just four letters. ... But whenever I get into the discussion of whos the better mapper or how good you are I start raving. So
I'll cut myself off:

I could be Uber. I have the skill to.
But I have no way of proving myself, nor do I want to (Again, just for four letters?!)...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-26 at 16:53:51
QUOTE(RexyRex @ Jan 26 2005, 04:39 PM)
I would say my skill could be set to Uber if I wanted it to be that way. But I'm not spending hours plotting/making a system for just four letters. ... But whenever I get into the discussion of whos the better mapper or how good you are I start raving. So
I'll cut myself off:

I could be Uber. I have the skill to.
But I have no way of proving myself, nor do I want to (Again, just for four letters?!)...
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If everyone were that lazy, then we wouldn't have any Übers. The whole point is to prove yourself. Yes I know many of us are Übers or believe we are, but the only reason anyone would be Über would be to prove themselves to be to the whole community.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by RexyRex on 2005-01-26 at 17:00:37
(Here I go getting all mad and raving about skill etc., please take whatever you might read half-seriousley)
I'm not lazy, I just don't see the POINT in making some big map or some complex system for some pixels on your computer screen.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-01-26 at 17:56:31
You're absolutely right. The skill of map making someone has isn't what counts; it how good your maps are that count. How good your map is really should determine how good of a map maker you are. THat's Y i am opposed to having this "Map Skill leve" thing we have here on SEN
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nozomu on 2005-01-26 at 18:02:16
So let's get rid of it. Let people's reputations speak for them.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-26 at 18:17:26
QUOTE(MillenniumArmy @ Jan 26 2005, 05:56 PM)
You're absolutely right. The skill of map making someone has isn't what counts; it how good your maps are that count. How good your map is really should determine how good of a map maker you are. THat's Y i am opposed to having this "Map Skill leve" thing we have here on SEN
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The skill level is mostly to know how much in-depth help you need to give to the people that need it.

QUOTE(Nozomu @ Jan 26 2005, 06:02 PM)
So let's get rid of it. Let people's reputations speak for them.

Can't wait for the SEN reputation system to come out, hope it works happy.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by RexyRex on 2005-01-26 at 18:41:31
There's going to be a reputation system? Who said that?
Link, please.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-26 at 18:43:14
http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=9529
Starts with something about post checking before the post is actually displayed. Then it moves on to reputation systems.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-01-26 at 21:42:13
QUOTE
The skill level is mostly to know how much in-depth help you need to give to the people that need it.

That still doesn't matter too much. Some beginner's advices are almost as good as some Uber people. Besides, I dont think people really act differently upon people of different skill levels. Nowadays in the map making assistance forum, people dont give actual quality help posts. Everyone litereally "fight for posts" and try to post something as quickly as possible so they can gain minerals.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-26 at 21:50:25
QUOTE(MillenniumArmy @ Jan 26 2005, 09:42 PM)
That still doesn't matter too much. Some beginner's advices are almost as good as some Uber people. Besides, I dont think people really act differently upon people of different skill levels. Nowadays in the map making assistance forum, people dont give actual quality help posts. Everyone litereally "fight for posts" and try to post something as quickly as possible so they can gai... (trimmed)
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If a beginner is asking about something that can be done 2 ways, and one is easier, I would tell him to do it the easier way and faults, if any.
If an advanced were asking the same question, I would propose both ways and tell him the advantages of the harder way.

I mean it still helps to have a little hint of how much this guy already knows.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-01-26 at 21:59:31
QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Jan 26 2005, 08:50 PM)
If a beginner is asking about something that can be done 2 ways, and one is easier, I would tell him to do it the easier way and faults, if any.
If an advanced were asking the same question, I would propose both ways and tell him the advantages of the harder way.

I mean it still helps to have a little hint of how much this guy already knows.
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Hmmm, well i dont really pay any attention to those skill levels. I'd just give out the first way that pops right up into my mind wink.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tdnfthe1 on 2005-01-26 at 22:46:53
QUOTE(MillenniumArmy @ Jan 26 2005, 08:42 PM)
That still doesn't matter too much. Some beginner's advices are almost as good as some Uber people. Besides, I dont think people really act differently upon people of different skill levels. Nowadays in the map making assistance forum, people dont give actual quality help posts. Everyone litereally "fight for posts" and try to post something as quickly as possible so they can gai... (trimmed)
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Alright i got a few things to say on this,

#1:What're the real point of minerals? Do they boast reputation or let you win stuff or something? I'm really curious cuz people have accused me of posting maps just for minerals and it was quite insulting. I think posting should be something you do only for a reason of your own, not to become more popular int the community disgust.gif .

#2:Does the whole Map Level you give yourself matter? I notice lots of people rate themself advanced, and they excessively post, and excessively make bold and rude comments disgust.gif . This makes me think they're just tryin to say they're better then another person. As others have said ive seen some beginner level people give some High Grade analysis's on triggs and maps. Abnd of course if you ask them y dont they set their Map Skill Level to Average or advanced, they will answer you:What's the point? Which to me is a very dignified answer. Take for example qpirateking someone i think is just trying to "pose" somewhat of an advanced map maker told him to switch his map making skill level to Uber. And without pirate needing to say anything someone else replied for him by saying, he's very modest by putting his Level at beginner because it shows how advanced he is that he allows people to judge him on his level. As what i think is he probably doesnt care, he's studied maps and made enough to impress people all over. And that's about it for that subject, i just don't think it matters what you rate yourself, it's what other people can tell you are, Posing isn't something that i think should be allowed on SEN, but some people don't even know they're doing it, so it cant be 100% their fault.

#3:As For me i rate myself Average because 1:it's in the middle, 2;I've only released 2 or 3 crappy maps that arnt worth submitting to the dldb. I just sort of wonder what makes some people who dont deserve advanced level make them rate themself that. confused.gif

Finally #4: Notice how on SEN all the "Well Known and greatly Known" map makers get Uber attention?(ex:Tuxedo Temp, qpirate, etc.) Yet people overlook the other little guys(like me and some others) who make posts with just as good or almost as good content, and people always seem to overlook your stuff? Or post something like what you should change with ur post, and then you dont actually get the feedback that you wanted disgust.gif . Yet people that are "famous" get instant replies of over almost 100 in a single day. And some of their replies, arnt even helping the map makers with stuff, the whole forum can get off topic then eventually come back, or they all say the same thing ermm.gif . If anyone else notices these things reply specifically to my post please?(or maybe this can be overlooked too ermm.gif )
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)3 on 2005-01-27 at 02:47:46
QUOTE(Tdnfthe1 @ Jan 26 2005, 10:46 PM)
Alright i got a few things to say on this,

#1:What're the real point of minerals? Do they boast reputation or let you win stuff or something? I'm really curious cuz people have accused me of posting maps just for minerals and it was quite insulting. I think posting should be something you do only for a reason of your own, not to become more popular int the community disgust.gif .

#2:Does the whole Map Level you give yourself matter? I notice lots of people rate themself advanced, and they excessively post, and excessively make bold and rude comments disgust.gif . This makes me think they're just tryin to say they're better then another person. As others have said ive seen some beginner level people give some High Grade analysis's on triggs and maps. Abnd of course if you ask them y dont they set their Map Skill Level to Average or advanced, they will answer you:What's the point? Which to me is a very dignified answer. Take for example qpirateking someone i think is just trying to "pose" somewhat of an advanced map maker told him to switch his map making skill level to Uber. And without pirate needing to say anything someone else replied for him by saying, he's very modest by putting his Level at beginner because it shows how advanced he is that he allows people to judge him on his level. As what i think is he probably doesnt care, he's studied maps and made enough to impress people all over. And that's about it for that subject, i just don't think it matters what you rate yourself, it's what other people can tell you are, Posing isn't something that i think should be allowed on SEN, but some people don't even know they're doing it, so it cant be 100% their fault.

#3:As For me i rate myself Average because 1:it's in the middle, 2;I've only released 2 or 3 crappy maps that arnt worth submitting to the dldb. I just sort of wonder what makes some people who dont deserve advanced level make them rate themself that. confused.gif

Finally #4: Notice how on SEN all the "Well Known and greatly Known" map makers get Uber attention?(ex:Tuxedo Temp, qpirate, etc.) Yet people overlook the other little guys(like me and some others) who make posts with just as good or almost as good content, and people always seem to overlook your stuff? Or post something like what you should change with ur post, and then you dont actually get the feedback that you wanted disgust.gif . Yet people that are "famous" get instant replies of over almost 100 in a single day. And some of their replies, arnt even helping the map makers with stuff, the whole forum can get off topic then eventually come back, or they all say the same thing ermm.gif . If anyone else notices these things reply specifically to my post please?(or maybe this can be overlooked too ermm.gif )

Now I feel a little weird about getting Uber today...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-27 at 15:19:04
QUOTE
Finally #4: Notice how on SEN all the "Well Known and greatly Known" map makers get Uber attention?(ex:Tuxedo Temp, qpirate, etc.) Yet people overlook the other little guys(like me and some others) who make posts with just as good or almost as good content, and people always seem to overlook your stuff? Or post something like what you should change with ur post, and then you dont actually get the feedback that you wanted disgust.gif. Yet people that are "famous" get instant replies of over almost 100 in a single day. And some of their replies, arnt even helping the map makers with stuff, the whole forum can get off topic then eventually come back, or they all say the same thing ermm.gif. If anyone else notices these things reply specifically to my post please?(or maybe this can be overlooked too ermm.gif.)

I completely agree. Yes, people always do just overlook your stuff, even if it is helpful to any extent. Also, many people overlook posts and post the exact same thing that you had said a few posts ago.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2005-01-27 at 15:41:18
QUOTE(Tdnfthe1 @ Jan 26 2005, 10:46 PM)
Notice how on SEN all the "Well Known and greatly Known" map makers get Uber attention?(ex:Tuxedo Temp, qpirate, etc.)


Yeah, look at all the attention I get. News flash, they got the attention way before "Uber" was created, and some of them before map skills were even implemented. The legends created themselves before the map skill pointed out what they were.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mune'R0x on 2005-01-27 at 18:12:34
[center]Bleh... I'm advanced in my map making part, although I don't finish my maps and no longer make them. I can do all the stuff that an advanced person does and figure out trigger problems and such.

But... As a Battle.net person I'm advanced Über. You might think I'm an idiot, but I've probably been here a lot longer than 99% of you have. I know how it all works. That's how I'd want to be judged on here instead of map making.[/center]
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-01-27 at 18:15:16
QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ Jan 27 2005, 03:41 PM)
Yeah, look at all the attention I get. News flash, they got the attention way before "Uber" was created, and some of them before map skills were even implemented. The legends created themselves before the map skill pointed out what they were.
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He is not talking about the skill level. He is talking about the amount of attention. Notice the context, "Uber attention." Not "the mapmakers with Uber skill get lots of attention."
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tdnfthe1 on 2005-01-27 at 22:03:26
QUOTE(Jahakob @ Jan 27 2005, 07:46 AM)
Cut out that "I am so great but I am too lazy LOL" crap. The reason I haven't seen your map on Bnet is because you can't create maps. Maybe you know the triggers, maybe you know how to create your own AI Scripts and maybe you even know how to hack the maps with the hex editor but it still doesn't mean a  censored.gif .
  You have to have the idea and the will. I never thought ... (trimmed)
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Not to be rude but... Who are you and what are you talking about? Unless you're talking about something in a few posts back im completely lost to wtf you're talking about.

P.S. Thank you for the reply Posts at least people see what i post in here happy.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by FFTA-Aero on 2005-01-29 at 01:21:02
I'd say i'm advanced. I make LotR games and many difrent made of story RPGS. Soon to be Uber.....

Working on Genimi RPG. Good so for. Quests work out, just not done.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by assassin_498 on 2005-01-30 at 20:12:59
I think i am an above average beginner because my maps have simple triggers but pretty good terrain and gameplay...
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