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If God is bound by logic, then I agree that he isn't Omnipotent.

I, however, do not believe he is bound by logic. That's my opinion.

Logic is just a way to come to conclusions with the information you currently have. It's not an actual physical thing.

He's not limited to logic. He is, however, still required to make logically sound actions. Out of all the arguements I presented, you've refuted none.

Instead, you rely on the ad hoc fallacy. Quite obviously, your lack in reasoning shows that you either agree with me, or you follow blind faith. Both of which are acceptable to me. Both of which would make this arguement useless (now).

Can someone tell me if I'm right when I state these things, and keep in mind I read one of Cheeze's rivetting disregardable and rude posts, and one of Millenium's, as well as Neiji's non-supportive post(on this page).

1)This whole thread got booming once Cheeze started poking mainly christian believers in the eye, about blind-faith and their views being wrong.

2)MilleniumArmy is the only christian or believer in a form of god, that is making any real point of intrest.

3)All the Athiests are cheering on Cheeze like good lil cheerleaders

4)All the other Christians/whatever contribute nothing to the real point of proving whatever it is they want to prove.

5)Cheeze is trying to point out the uselessness of this thread by posting and helping it prosper and grow.

6)This post will be replied to in a way that a majority of viewers would deem as "rude".


Just wondering if those 6 things are true about the thread so far, it's just for personal intake, could someone fill me in a.s.a.p? Thanks much


When you say "he" you're referring to god as a force with a will. Which would of course bind the idea of god to any of our KATRILLIONS of religons that exist in this world. Now, since this IS what you guys are doing, if you stopped adressing all the discussion towards the CHRISTIAN and Catholic reference of god, and just speak of god as a general whole, I think the arguing and discontent among opinions would minimize. After all Religons are just the corrupt ideals of a creator so that people could control people, for better or worse(rome, the catholic church, Islam and Muhammad, Budda, etc.) Anyway, all of you are refering to mainly a christian god(Personally I don't consider Catholics a form of Christians, I find them seperate).

But of course we are talking about, "The Bible" but how would I know that's what we're still talking about when I start reading a thread and that's not even what's mainly being discussed?(just a point, stay on the main topic)

Here's a thought tho, the people who start these threads always disappear and can't carry the conversation, so the older, and more insecure members who like spreading their ideas and thoughts, come in and put down their influence. Therefor this thread should've been closed when it started, there's not enough knowledgable people on the "side of belief" to make it worth the"non-believers" side's time. "If there's no pot of gold at the end of the Rainbow, why find the end?"

~Tdnfthe1

1)This whole thread got booming once Cheeze started poking mainly christian believers in the eye, about blind-faith and their views being wrong.

true

2)MilleniumArmy is the only christian or believer in a form of god, that is making any real point of intrest.

true

3)All the Athiests are cheering on Cheeze like good lil cheerleaders

false, im not cheering him on, no offense Cheeze

4)All the other Christians/whatever contribute nothing to the real point of proving whatever it is they want to prove.

cant really say true....so ill say possibly

5)Cheeze is trying to point out the uselessness of this thread by posting and helping it prosper and grow.

false, he's just trying to discuss it and argue, not try to make this thread seem useless, which it is not

6)This post will be replied to in a way that a majority of viewers would deem as "rude".

true <^> XD jking hehehe



we are discussing the bible in this thread, which is from Christianity, this isnt the "talk about a general god" thread

I'm cheering you on now.

From reading 4 recent posts, I could easily say yes it is, that was the point of posting it =D.

~Tdnfthe1

Long time no see, tdnft


We don't know if he is required to make logically sound actions. Maybe he isn't omnipotent, maybe he isn't omniscent. We can't really be sure. The Bible is really ambiguous when it comes to describing some characteristics of God, there are so many unsolved enigmas about God.

But so what? Those things aren't important. That's not what christianity is about - it's about the teachings and morals taught (such as loving one another). Knowing what creationism is and/or the way God works don't make you Christian.

im a nice guy but im not exactly Christian (i go to church but only cuz i like to hang out with my youth group)

the only difference is, Christians have someone to keep them under control
people like me self control ourselves for the benefit of human kind

It's Ultimate truth, by the way... there's more than just a Bible, there's something called like Qur'ran for Islam and Shi ni gauge (Can't pronounce it) for Jewish.

There is no "so what". My entire arguement was trying to persuade you that he isn't omnipotent. If you agree with this, I would be extremely happy. If you disagree, then it must be blind faith carrying you (same conclusion).

I rushed my last post (because my parents were bugging me) but now that I have time...

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Only like two of them were (for only one post)
4) Can't really say
5) No. He's pointing out why he believes God isn't omnipotent.
6) Rude? No way. Very unlike some posts i've seen.

I disagree that they're corrupt ideals. For instance, christianity teaches primarily to love one another and forgive each other. But it's when people twist these ideals and incite violence, that's when things go corrupt (such as the crusades, fight over the "holy land," etc.)


Usually people (particularly the religious ones) wouldn't even get into discussions like these. They know it's useless and they know they'll never persuade each other. Ever since I started getting into these discussions (which was probably like in December 2004 or Jan 2005,) alot of people would participate in these religion threads. As time passed, those people gradually ended up leaving and/or just stopped these debates. Eventually now, it's just down to a handful (or less) of us, including me and cheeze.
Among those that left, there was an Atheist back then which I respected alot. His name was DrunkenWrestler. He was very courteous, unlike many people here now ad very knowledgeable like cheeze.

Oh and why do you want this thread closed? I don't see any reason for it to be closed. Oh and cheeze and I were actually going off topic (questioning God's omnipotency, not debating about the Bible.)


I still think he's Omnipotent. And no it's not necessarily blind faith carrying me.
Although you have brought up some good points, I see it in a different way.

If you call my belief in God "blind faith", then love = blind faith.

Yay. I'm happy that my arguements have been, at the very least, logical from your point of view (so those who complain can't )

But, can you explain me your point of view? I cannot see how it is not blind faith.


In a way, love is blind faith. You might understand the true power of love later on life since you're too young right now (since you're still younger than 15).

Who said I was "in" love with him? I love him like a parent.

We shouldn't be carrying this any further. We're going off topic (this is a bible thread, not God thread)
But when another God thread pops up (which i'm sure it will), I'll resume

That was my main point of posting Millenium!
Ok let's start with the abolishment of this thread .

First of all, no you can't prove that the bible is a record of true events.
Second of all, there are many means of "scientific" persuasion to persuade the thought of Bible truth as foolishness.(Much like the first thought of electricity, or a black mayor eh?)
Third of all, there are hundreds of inconclusive threads leaning from the Bible that "we believe" the bible must answer.(Yeah, like why the rain falls, and how unintelligable life managed to evolve for survival means, those answer for themself too right?)
And fourth of all, you can't prove that 1 farking single thing in the Bible is not based on fact, or 100% true.

So therefor, very simply put, we have someone who can't prove what he says is true. And we have someone who can't prove he is lying. What happens in America with these types of circumstances? We have trials based on witness and fact. But... we have no witnesses that both sides will agree on as credible, and we have no facts that both sides agree on as credible. So what would happen in the U.S. in a situation like this? Well since we can view HUMAN GOVERNMENTS through historical records that we all believe to be credible sources-we can conclude that people would not confer on a reasonable and fair outcome. Therefor, we ourselves as a society don't discern the right to decide if this book is crap, or truth. Wanna know the best reason why?


This thread was started by [it may be your opinion but it's still a flame] - CaptainWill who just wanted to poke fun at a book without credibility. When all he has is "reason" that he himself isn't even knowledgable of. How hyprocritical is that shiz? So you're telling me that us deciding on the final fate of this book will have purpose? It will have none, and no true fact will come of it either, only reason to doubt or embrace this book. Nothing more than influence. I swear, this discussion right here is enough to support the theory of god and satan battling to see how strong humans really are.(If you're confused, the best thing I cann tell you is to watch the movie Constantine [another flame])

So debate what you will, you won't find some sort of answer, sure the Bible makes sense. And sure, science(which is now an enemy of religon by the way) has tons of proof that we can all agree on as credible, but within the things that make science credible are things that credit the bibles pages(1 example being a round earth). So debate and have your fill and waste your time with deciding, I'll still be sitting at home watching Dave Chapelle, laughing my ass off at you guys.

~Tdnfthe1
P.S.(Hahahahaha, the goddamn phrase filters are killing me hahahaha)

Don't beleive the lies. Shapechanger is God and you shall have no God before him.

This is too perfect.


...and how did you get 100% participation?

ok guys... lets start taking notes from my man lennon....

sure, most people want to live in harmony
it's obvious and plain to see
it's the normal thinking of man
but, we were meant to walk on land

heaven may seem glorious and true
its descriptions are as contagious as the flu
although it may seem perfect to you
it would be as valuable as.....poo


Heaven is overrated, and who wants to live forever in a boring place like that? I would choose heaven over hell, but if i could choose neither, i would. This God is forcing us away from "my" perfect home, and therefore is a threat and must be dealt as such.

The complete lack of coherence burns my eyes, but I see your point nonetheless.


SUPREME IMMORTAL ART

Existance alone is a huge burden because no matter what, there will come a point when you have done literally everything, seen literally everything, and so on. What happens at that point? What happens at the point where you've done everything so many times that anything bores you? You'd be wishing you didn't exist.

Do you even know what heaven is? It's like you don't exist, but like you can only feel happiness and love.

At leats, that's my opinion...

Happiness and love are illusions.