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Sorry for believing in the world of, the world we all live in. I guess science is all about PoV, and that it created it's own little world. I mean, science is all about culture, and how we were raised. What a fool I was to think otherwise. (Sarcasm)

Don't align religion with science. They're almost complete opposites.

So let me get this straight:
If I argue about an abstract thing, then start to lose the arguement, or w/e. I can just leave the arguement, and it will become a tie? Not a win or lose situation? Why hell, that's possibly the greatest thing ever made! I mean, if we did that, Racism would be considered, "They might be right." And same with sexism. Because a tie is better than a loss.

Well, most of the religions in the world are similar...

...huh? Please, when you say stuff like this, atleast provide some backing or evidence or proof or atleast a statement that reinforces your point.

ADDITION:

Besides, I don't think they're really that similiar if you think about it. This is ruling out the main 3: Christianity, Judiasm, Islam. Buddhism is something else altogether, so I won't put that down as one...

Mainly because we love God and Jesus, not really because otherwise we would be damned to hell. At least I hope that's it....


I think I have a slight clue as to why people have been comparing these two in the first place. Back in the 1920s when the Fundamentalists basically controlled the United States, to accept Darwism/Evolution is to basicaly deny the book of Genesis and the story of God's creation of the world. And that's where all the fireworks begin to fly.

I love my computer; I don't worship my computer.

So why worship Jesus? Give me another reason why you would worship Jesus without saying it's because of going to heaven or because you love him.

Both are not very valid responses for reasons I've already discusses.

Quick reference:
-Going to heaven - desire for immortality - greed
-Loving Jesus - not love, obsessed - example above

I love how at every possible moment you would somehow try to pull me into one of those big post contentious debates and fail to do so about half the time

Why worship Jesus? Well, it depends on the individual. Every person's got his or her own reasons other than to just go to heaven.

Fine then, we won't. But share one reason with the above specifications. I'm sure it couldn't be that difficult.

Hmmm... a typical reason I would see is because God is pretty much our creator. He gave us this earth, gave us air, food, water, animals, and all our friends and families.

Comments like that are exactly what brings about these sorts of arguements, aren't they? And still we ask for proof, and still, most of the people we've seen so far base it on faith and faith alone. Since you seem to be more informed on this sort of stuff, MA, perhaps you could put as much evidence as possible into the next post? And please, I ask that you try not to use stuff such as what I quoted. Tell us rather, HOW he gave us all of it. What divine magic gives him these gifts? Did he warp them in? Did he wave his hand, and suddenly, they appeared? Even God must have a method, if it truly was him. So please, Elaborate.

Now if i were bringing that point up as an argument then yes I do have to present more.

But all i simply did was just state one maybe possible reason people would believe in God. Im not bringing up an argument

Like let me put it this way:

Situation A:
Atheist: I dont think Christians have a valid reasons for their belief in God
Christian: No, we do. We believe in God because <reasons and evidences>

Situation B:
Atheist: What possible reasons could Christians believe in God?
Christian: I dunno, maybe because he's our creator?

Notice the difference of attitudes between the two. What we're in is Situation B

Ah, I see... Well, thanks for clearing that up. But still, it would be nice to see reasons and evidence. I'm generally not too well informed on this kinda stuff.

See what?

MA, stop fooling around. You know perfectly well that was a lame excuse. Excuse my, erm, bad use of words and such but what you posted was irrelevant to what was requested.

We have discussed this before; in order for you to present something like that as a reason, it also requires evidence. Since we've discussed this before, we know perfectly well that this is purely based on faith; thus you have no evidence nor reasoning for why you worship Jesus without violating my specifications.

This means, you are just as guilty as any of us because you still suffer from what god is trying to prevent (supposedly).

Oh, but i do have my reasons and I've said them before (like in the old religion threads.) I find it rather pointless posting my reasons over and over again, because i've already seen the responses and I know what responses I will get if i post them again and so do you.

And you seem rather aggressive now. In the past you were just basically questioning us christians WHY we believe. NOW you're basically attacking us christians for why we believe. Keep up with this aggressive attitude and you probably will be getting less and less responses as tndf predicted.

Good job, you repeated what I said.


Good job, you dodged my questions.

I'm sure you're proud. Want to know why I'm being "aggresive"? Because this thread is pointless. I've said it at least 5 times now; religion is based entirely on faith. You don't have a reason to believe it except for faith. We know that, it's a fact.

Then it's done. If this thread is pointless, then i guess we can now just back away and let this thread R.I.P. Dont we just love happy endings

Who wins? Guess that depends on your PoV. So I guess you are free to think that you win the debate. Let's hear it for CheeZe

Millenium, this is maybe the 3rd or 4th time we shall ask you this. WHAT EVIDENCE!!!!? SHOW US YOUR EVIDENCE!!!! CAN I GET ANYMORE CLEAR?
If you just happen skip my post, at least read the words in caps. Sorry for talking like that, but I've been asking this question for a while now. And yet, your side never directly answerd it. And if they did, either it was a terrible answer. Or I just flat out missed it, and I apologize.

BTW - Your situation B is just, I mean, reread what you put down. If you can't understand why your situation B is just pure you with your head up your ass, then I'm done argueing with you. (I know why you want this arguement to end so badly, because it's getting closer to pointing out that your belief is just down right stupid. And that PoV/Enlightenment on the topic, are your last resorts left)

Well, I've answer that in the past, in other threads. I've said it many times over and over again and i get the same responses; I'm sick of repeating my answers over and over again. Even when I say it now, you and I both know what you will have to say in response.

And if you think it's stupid, then that's that; there's nothing we can do about it. I perfectly understand why you guys think Christianity is stupid but there's no need to crack each other's balls about it.


I find it funny how the topic starters can still unlock their own threads . I mean, isn't the reason why topics are locked down because then people, like the topic starters, cant reopen them?

I was asked to lock the thread, and I said no unless the religious side had a defence. Cause I didn't want to walk away thinking I was right. Cause if you had to ask me, atheist side is the winning side right now. It's like the part of a boxing match when the 2 contenders are done, and they get judged. Atheists have thrown and delivered more punches than the religious side right now. But I want the religious side to continue fighting, not give up and say that's all about PoV, and faith. Which is pure bullshit. Which you and I BOTH know is.

I'm not gonna follow the rules of a book just because of those 2 reasons alone. Espeically one that would claim a shit load of stuff. I mean, even god himself would understand, you have to be a fool or someone looking for a way to cope, to go with that way. I mean, come on. Prove me wrong. What's taking you? You've only had thousands of years to prove there's a god. And if you already did it, then prove it again real fast. It shouldn't be hard at all. Unless........you're wrong.

So go ahead, try to detour this arguement. Try to say that it's all about PoV. Infact, tell me your point of view. If it's all about PoV, what IS your PoV?

"There's a god here, BECAUSE:
*Drum roll*
He created us. That's my proof."

Nice proof there bub, nice proof.

Evidence: Faith


Thats all they have, and thats all they need. (They=Christians.)

Crappy Christians sometimes cant take just having faith, and stop believing. Ones with true faith stay. Thats all there is to it Alpha, not that complicated.

So, am I arrogant to announce that I'm the winner? I mean, that's just stupid. I'm on the aggressive side. I leave this decision to the judges. (Spectators) Don't voice an opinion unless you've read at least read half of this thread. My opinion is biased as hell, so is mill's. And I hope the spectators are at least half as biased as we are.

Here's a link I posted a long time ago in the old thread. The author actually has her "proofs" for why God exists.

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

ADDITION:
Another interesting thing:

http://www.proofgodexists.org/anthropic_principle.htm

Your 1st one has no proof at all. It was just questioning atheism, the same way atheists questioned religion. You need proof to prove that you're right. And that site provided very little, if not, any. While all I need to do is prove that you have lil or no proof to prove so that I'm right. (I'm considerd right until proven wrong. That's how things work)

I'm sure this isn't the best site for atheists, but it seems ok to me.
http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/no_god.htm

Now unless you're agnostic, meaning you make no claims, then yes. But no, you're atheist, you make a claim there's no God. And what must be accompanied by every claim? Evidence. Apparently, both sides failed to provide "proof" to satisfy the other side. We're fastidious; we want things our own way. Christians might see a certain thing as proof, Atheists might not. It also works the other way. So even when we provide "proof" the other side wont always see it as proof.

"I'm not satisfied with your 'proof'" is a euphenism for "That's not proof."

... Yay, two sites? I wanted this topic to be closed.


Bad site. Terrible examples. Reason: evolution is driven through chance; you can't battle evolution saying the chance is almost 0%. That's the whole cause of evolution! But we're not on such a debate, so the rest of the website (which I only skimmed through) will be irrelevant for now.


Site posted already; reasons why it's a bad site also already posted. Maybe you didn't read them. Try searching through other topics.

Note: If you want a good "athiest" source, go here: http://www.talkorigins.org/

It has tons of facts through literally thousands of references. All backed up with detailed explanations and evidence.


In correct. Athiests did not make the claim "there is no god". Religious folks started this by saying there is a god; then, from that, I challenge you to prove this. From a lack of proof, I am able to judge that there is no god because you have no confirmation.

In the realm of science, everything is false until proven true or is backed up with sufficient evidence. God has no such thing and, as said before, towards pure faith. Which is why this arguement is pointless.

Religious people won't accept the truths in their flaws. Cheeze STILL requests a lock. Thanks.

Ya, some of them might see it that way cause some people have their head up their ass.

I knew it, I knew you were gonna rely on PoV. You even used it for proof. Actual proof. Wow. I guess in your world, there is no wrong or right. Just PoV.

You start off with no knowledge. Like for example, I don't believe that a WommbleGoose exists, because I don't know what the hell one is. And I doubt that it exists, unless someone proves me otherwise. Or even a Dr.KevinMonkey Doll, or a JabbaWabbaDabbaGabbaMoose. I don't think those things exist. Why, the person that says that they do, need to provide proof that they do. They are wrong until they are proven right. And the sites you give us, was not proof at all.

Religion has had some of the most intellectual people for thousands of years, ruling over everyone else, and yet you guys can not provide any proof what so ever? Just things like, "Well, you see.....we're too complicated to be created by evolution, so something must've designed us. AKA God." Wow, you guys are the masters of logic. I mean, come on. Let's put this down into numbers and admire your genius:

Complexity of us in digits = 1
Complexity of God in digits = 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

We must've came 1st because we are too complicated to just come out of no where, I mean, something less complicated like god must've been here 1st to create us.

EDIT: Thanks cheeze, I really didn't know any good atheist sites.