Staredit Network

Arg, this arguing has gone on for around a week, all it comes down to is that it is basically the mappers opinion and how much they want the bragging rights, cya I'mma going to bed

Well they support the principle in a more recent instance of it (which probably better reflects their current views). I don't know when that WWI contest was hosted, but it must have been awhile ago when the protection issue was just seen as another nuisance 3rd party thing. Plus they've stopped making money off of SC, so they're probably against 3rd party stuff anyway as they'd rather you go buy w3 instead to use it on.

(and '3rd party stuff they're against' would include unprotection, as well)


EDIT- Hence why most of my maps are unlocked anyway. Just most people can't seem to get over the triggers to improve upon them, it seems. Woo ego++

And for the record, my 'Kill Me' map alone got "stolen" on 4 seperate occasions (that I know of, at least). No improvements, additions, nothing. Just some blokes slapping their names over it.

Why not just not encourage(not discourage) both types?

I read something about protecting your map being some sort of freedom that you chose. Well, both sides of the ordeal will have to be looked upon. You have the freedom to view, edit and get credit for it with many other things besides a small piece of a part of software.

True freedom, is one where you can do whatever you feel like, one which will neither encourage or discourage either program(s).

There is nothing wrong with opening up your computer and see it, most of us do it all the time. There is nothing wrong with viewing the page source of SeN.

There is nothing wrong with adding some extra RAM to your PC, nor adding a post (lines of code) to SeN.

Now comes name editing and taking credit. Yes, it is illegal to take credit for copyrighted material, but a small .chk file isn't copyrighted, not anyone has the right to do so. It is more of a moral and ethical reason. But, if you make maps for fame, there is something wrong.

I'll repeat myself again, map protection programs and unprotection programs shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged.

Well yeah, fame is a bad reason. When you put ego before enjoyment you're forgetting the why it's called a 'game' in the first place. Doesn't stop me from doing it anyway, though.

Am trying to cut down though, at least.



But I disagree about not needing protection. Certainly, most maps could do without it, and lots of then could in fact benefit without it. However, there are exceptions. As I said, higher-quality maps that are difficult to improve upon, or maps from authors without established reputations (who wouldn't be able to defend their claim to it) are probably cases where it could come in handy.

About people claiming that OSMAP is a learning tool:

It's not. How can you learn if there are no comments, no location names, no switch names ? A real learning program would be not to protect the map in the first place.

Thus, OSMAP is useless for learning. And is useless for stealing, as nobody cares about who made the map on b-net. Only people on SEN care, and map stealing here is impossible. So what is it's real purpose ?...

Maybe LW could tell us, because I highly doubt that he made it to learn/steal.

.. flaming my Trigger Viewer program shows that you know absolutely nothing about me or my stance on protection. I helped design OSMAP.

Please, shut up before you insult yourself further.

That's your opinion and I won't argue with you. Let's imagine that you're right - OSMAP is a perfect tool to make maps better (change). If it is true, let's examine who could possibly make maps better ?

An average B-net user ? He doesen't know about OSMAP. Of course there are rare examples of b-net users using OSMAP, they can make maps better, but also can make maps worse. In depends on the b-net user.

Here at SEN ? Moose is against OSMAP and any person who will come and say "Hey guys, look, I made GTA Classic's storyline better, balanced it out a bit and fixed the change weapon bug" won't be met positively.

People don't change over time. People didn't want to accept anything new and understand why lightning strikes thousands of years ago, they don't want to look at the Unprotection/Protection question from another point of view today.

It think it's rather simple - you live in a warm country, you don't need warm clothes. You have no protection, you don't need unprotection. Protection created unprotection, blame yourselves.

*Shortened*

Agreed.

I made my first few maps looking at other maps, learning how things worked and such. Most of the triggers had comments, and locations had names, which was way before I joined SeN, talking about 2001~2002.

I come to my point again, OSMAP can be an effective learning tool, and it's even more effective not to use any sort of these programs.

Wait so you say it is good but its better not to use it?

Supporting both protectors and unprotectors is just about the dumbest idea ever. How idiotic would it look with an unprotector right above the unprotector in the DLDB? Yeah, that makes sense.

I say we drop the whole deal about osmap. Let people find it themselves, not on the famous starcraft map-making website, Staredit.net. I don't think we want to be labeled "Staredit.net, we support map unprotecting!"

If people want their maps protected, then you should damn well leave it alone. They protect it for a reason, it's theirs, they don't want it touched.

All posting OSMAP on SeN will accomplish is attracting map thiefs to sign up on SeN. How is that good in the slightest way?

Real men make their own maps.

I got into map making by looking at maps that were never protected and learning from them, and I am still against OSMAP. Why?

• Someone who can find OSMAP, download it, and unlock a map doesn't need help learning the basics of map making.
• You can't learn advanced tricks from just looking at a map that has them.
• Maps that were protected and subsequently unprotected are too corrupt to learn from.
• Despite what some people say, it's not easy downloading countless new versions of maps. People ban you for downloading.
• Most simple maps are not protected in the first place, and you can't learn anything from an advanced map even if it wasn't corrupted, so all you can do is tarnish that map's reputation by releasing your own crapty, hastily modified version.
• It's not that hard to make your own map. You don't pass other people's English papers off as your own, do you?

Anyone who even says Legacy made OSMAP for learning or open source mapping is an idiot. He doesn't know why the freak he made it, he doesn't know why he does anything. He's just a little kid who doesn't even make maps.

You don't have any right to restrict others' access to the map that you've been working on.



Trigger Viewer was a step in the right direction, but it didn't stop map restriction. OSMAP is complete freedom. Obviously, you are against map restriction, or else you wouldn't have created such a fine tool of map liberation.

Haha... BS. If nobody has the right to protect their own maps, then Blizzard would have done something about people making their own programs to protect maps.



Yes, trigger viewer was a step in the right direction, but OSMAP was a step too far. It would have gotten my support as a read-only system instead of as an unprotector.

Obviously a lie? Duh.

thats like saying you don't have any right to own property. stupid and illogical.

All your .scx and .scm are belong to Blizzard Entertainment. They're not your property. Intelligent and logical.

That statement in and of itself is stupid and illogical. If Blizzard owned every .scm and .scx, then protection programs wouldn't be allowed to exist. And also, if a person creates something with things they paid for, no matter what it is, the thing they made is their own property.