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Ahh thank you for bringing that up!! Now I must say something regarding that. Catholicism believes that sex is bad. Now they also believe that masturbation is bad because of a misinterpreted section of the bible. Now see people, 1 small part of the bible nullified one of the human's first ways of sexual fulfilment without going nuts. Now I think I'll shut up. As I need to check out all the changes so I can get used to forum positions.

Yup, catholicism is weird. Their beliefs are extremely demented and do things the bible doesn't even say to do.

MilleniumArmy, that's on the verge of flamin catholism.

Where is this 'misinterpruted' section of the Bible about Masterbation?

If I remember correctly, some dude let his semen hit the ground (which people take to mean that he masturbated) and God smote him for it, or something.

somehow i dont recall anything on that matter, and i respect your earlier post nozomu, i'm sorry if it seemed like i was pressing my beliefs on you. somehow from reading the posts in the thread it seemed like somebody wanted reasons why we believed what we believed...



to me, its not "coincidence."

and if you think i'm arrogant, i'm sorry, my mistake. i was merely trying to answer your question of what i've "witnessed"... i dont think its coincidence that all those things, and more, fell into place.

Yea someone did want our reasons for why we believed. So in response, i posted some links that hold some of our answers on that other thread

true. my mistake. i just thought that others might respect more personal testimonies. anyways. to bad nobody learned anythign from it.

3 pages later and still nothing new (tracked the topic). It's becoming another religion vs. science things...

Unfortunetly, extremism no matter from wich source (religious, right or left wing, etc.) doesn't allow us to continue a civilized debate on this subject.
To me the worse problem I can find in Christians is the zealot thingy. "We're right 'cause it's the [insert unbelievable reason here]"
Sorry, I fail to see why some still try to impose their views upon others. It doesn't happen often in my country n' all communities in here (ortodox, muslim, jewish, catholic, etc.) get along dandy.

I really respect the Jews. They just ooze coolness. Read Exodus by Leon Uris.

I took a history course about the second age of empires, and it was explained to me how throughout history Christians have imposed their religion on countless peoples. That is the only reason Christianity is so widespread. People were converted en masse through force. You either did that or died. Do you think it would be widespread if Charlemagne hadn't spread it across Europe. America would likely be part of the Roman Empire or something if it hadn't been spread.

All single human belief will have its faults that may increase over generations, but only some of them ever have good points. Any religion is really making you be good so you'll get something good back later (karma, heaven, blah blah blah). However, there are other belief systems such as Confucianism, that, since they don't have a "God", will make you do things out of knowledge instead of fear.

There's nothing ever new about this Religion talk.

And btw, dont refer these things as Religion vs Science. They're two seperate categories and aren't suppose to intertwine and belie each other.


Yea, back then christianity was required. Now, people are free to choose whether to keep believing in God or not. Many of you guys chose not to now, but as you can see, alot more ppl chose to stick with their religion because they believe in it.

Wich get mixed everytime zealot Creationism addicts come bouncing upon Evolution. Hence that, I'll still stick with my view point.
From the Deism evolution theory I never picked it much... except the fact that "God" (or whatever high entity) created it and leave it be for Evo' to take over. Why can't it be without it/him/her from scratch?



And here comes arrogance... again. If anyone isn't educated in Christianism's principles it wouldn't never have to choose it from. It just could follow other view points. Religious, that is (Buhddism, Taoism, Muslim, etc.).

Yup, the Inquisition had their ways... but it simply wasn't a requirement as you stated. It's was the "my way or the highway" mode instead (aka death, convertion or simply go somewhere else).
Please get your history brushed up, uhm?

Right, but what we're talking about is faith, not creationism. We're not trying to disprove evolution.


Without it/him/her, there would be nothing. Somethign must've created life at the very start, something must've created the universe and all the trees, all the birds, all the bacterias, all the baboons whom some supposed we evolved from...


Even when people were raised as christians when they were 3 feet tall, they turned away from God later on. Many nonbelievers were raised and taught christianity but later on rejected it because of the eloquences the bible failed to provide.


You're belieing yourself. You say it simply wasn't a requirement, but rather "my way or the highway." A requirement is some that has to be done or else you shall suffer a consequence if any. So you say it's not a requirement but rather "something that must be done or else..." And check this out, here's the definition of requirement from dictionary.com:

So that's really what was required of those people back then. I didn't think you quite understood what a "requirement" was so just had to point that out


I'll try to
And get your english brushed up as well. I know english isn't your first language i assume but yea

Nozomu, I'd like to retract something I said about being arrogant.

I think I have a lot to be proud of. I believe in a God that'll kick your ass on the other side if you don't follow him.

That's the blunt truth of it. I'm sure you don't see it that way.

Nope, I don't ! But hey, if He does exist in the afterlife I'll start believing in him the moment I get there and see Him for myself.

If he created me, then he must have created me with my need for evidence. So he actually condemned me to Hell before I even was born. Not very fair .

Right... I'll pretend to buy it. Eveytime you bring the Bible along as full-proof n' we (read non-crationists) point out the incongruences inside, it turns into that. Nvm, then. You won't see my point, I guess.



The fallacies... oh, boy. And who created God/whatever in the 1st place? Gettin' complicated, isn't it? *Rant* "He always existed." - You'll prob'ly say. And so, why not the Universe as well?
Use the Occam's Razor to see my point better.



You're only stubborn or something worse? Go back n' read it again.
If they're educated otherwise they wouldn't think of Christianity in the 1st place. There are so many other options out there. Perhaps this time you can see it better.



You still didn't get it, do you? Many Jews, for instance, had to run into other countries were their religious choice wasn't persecuted. Thus it wasn't exactly a requirement.

In countries with the Inquisition folks could have other faiths, just don't profess'em openly. The freedom of speech/choice thing we love so much nowadays was smited instead.

Therefore the liberties were constricted in both cases (couldn't live were they initially wished or an 'enlightened convertion' awaited). But you couldn't really force ppl to get your religious faith. Only in appearance. And you know what ppl can say about it.
Like that "Earth is flat" mambo jambo from those days (Inquisition vs. Galileo).



Point taken (or not). Guess that those 23 years, give or take a few wks, near it didn't made a difference afterall.
I just happen to have a father with a degree in Germanics (the family of languages from where English comes from). And when teaching in classes he, one time or another, even picked my own study notes to use in those. Never had or asked help from him at it.

He created you with the sense of needing knowledge. It is obvious you won't believe in something unless you have evidence, so perhaps he created you with the idea that if you were to become a christian you would find the missing piece needed for other people like you.

But I don't feel the need to know anything more. It's just that I can't accept claims based on insufficient evidence. There's nothing "missing".

Everything makes sense to you, than?

Nope. In fact, very little, if anything, makes sense to me. But that doesn't mean I'm going to make up explanations just because I can't find one logically. I'm content not knowing how the universe works.