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To be honest, I hate the repetitive religon topics in this forum. However, my western civ teacher made a good point today. He said that during his time, the two most destructive forces were capitalism and communism. Now, he says, it's religon and nationalism. I must say I agree with him. Anyways, as such, I hope that is enough of a reason for me to open this thread.

I noticed in quite a bit of the religous arguements, one of the statements against christians were that they were stereotypical, hypocritical, superficial or/and egotistical.

I was just wondering what your thoughts on christians are. Seriously. Please do not flame, but you know...if you have any questions that just didn't come up in other topics ask about it here. Not to say I have all the answers, but I could check into it.

Some Christians can be off the top for thier religion, some can be normal people, and some can be despiseful of parts of thier own religion, it gets confusing to tell the truth.

My same exact thoughts.

The period from the begining of The Empire or Charlemagne(800's) to 1871 when the remnants of the Holy Roman Empire were no more with the creation of The Republic of Germany ruined Christianity.

Why do I say such a thing? Well it's quite simple. The church was united with the goverment or in this case monarchies. This is because the church used their power to do things what were against their own beliefs which are said in the Bible and The Ten Commandments. Church leaders killed other people and tortured to death many people during this era. Another point is that the church stole money from many people simply because they wanted.

If I'd have to summarize this is one point, Catholicism is a religion like any other except the first people to break the rules are the church officials.

People say that Muslims are bad and all that and I tell them what have they done wrong? Wage an endless war that is part of their religion? I say look at our own religion where church officials break their own rules.

It's not the muslim people that did that, it was a dictator who wanted an excuse.

Beer, the catholics vs. protestants are still raging war in ireland....

Well, Northern Ireland, to be precise... it's part of the UK.

But yeah, absolutely - there is still senseless quarrelling between Catholics and Protestants in that area. I'm sure that most people here would be aware of the IRA?

Well in a "Christian" book, there was a part where it had the listing of the top ten most martyerd areas. Or i should say the top christian killers.
What amazed me the most was that "other christians" was 5th. Muslim and all the other religeons added up jsut equeld the amount that "Other Christians" killed.

That means there are some "christians" who say they are, like the muslims in iraq, but it is just an excuse to kill in masses.

If you want the name of the book it is "Jesus Freaks Volume2"



Well that should be enough, however, I do agree wit your teacher.

I really have no negative thoughts about christians since i am a Christian myself.

But Catholics i kinda think are sort of messed up in some ways. For instance, the buying people out of hell and into heaven stuff as well as extra communion the Bible doesn't even says to do. And many more things about them which i find wrong...

I'm really a Baptist Christian

Answer me this question and you will have convinced me that the religion is good:

Using real scientific data, tell me why having a religion will make me a better person?

*I said scientific data because I don't want you to use sources from the bible, any other sources would be fine so long as it's not biased.

perhaps through the social studies book? would that work for you?
Becuase in it also says that Jesus came out into preaching, then dies, then they cant find his body. but that doesnt prove anything does it?
I guess it is on your own if you want to believe something will make you better.

In many cases, religion can make people smarter.
also depending on the religion, people often develope good manners (Most religions if not all), tranquility, and respect for others.

I am atheist.

I am 99th percentile in mathematics and science. (Only abover average in other stuff.)

I say "Thank You" and "Excuse Me" and all those manner stuff.

I respect everyone. I hate people who don't respect others.

I am tranquil, prefering the peace and quiet and classical music.

Pretty obvious these traits do not require a religion.

Read carefully, did I say it requires religion? No I just said it encourages it.
and we are talking about the least beneficial religion here, so I'm working hard to find answers.

Christains have a hard time evaluating themselves because they are "humble" but others say they are great. Many Christains want good but are doing bad.

George Bush (our Pres) is a Christain, not everyone liked what he did. so then rumors begin and so on. It gets worse and worse...

I don't see how religion encourages this. If anything, it throws violent attacks on to the scientific community instead of teaching these methods.

Hmm, this is like an open invitation from FireKame for me to vent my frustrations (thanks!), but since this question is incredibly broad I'll have to answer it in general terms. I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh, but I have to get this stuff out of me somehow.

Everyone should get this straight - from a scientific standpoint, humanity invented religion as a survival tactic. That's right, religion is beneficial to society because it makes people afraid to do things that are detrimental to society ("I'll go to Hell" or "I will have to atone", etc.). Now, speaking specifically of Christianity, I totally agree that it is beneficial in many ways to society. But its role in society became warped when people first began to use it as a tool, practically since its conception. It is not meant to be a tool, it's meant to be an aid to society's growth. Obviously, Christianity leaves itself open and vulnerable, mainly in that it can be interpreted to mean anything you want it to mean. Unfortunately, we can't just phase it out in favor of a new system, because it is so ingrained in modern society's structure. We also can't phase it out because of its own survival mechanisms - it can adapt to new conditions easily with new interpretation, and, of course, there's the fact that the people who run America would never let it lose much strength, using force to retain its hold if necessary. I think that humanity's best hope in getting out of this rut would be to find Jesus' body, thus proving that the resurrection never happened. For all we know, Jesus' body is hidden in catacombs deep beneath the Vatican, guarded by blind Nuns trained in martial arts. It would be a simple matter to hide his body once found, and even if it was revealed that he truly had not been resurrected, Christianity would evolve and adapt an explanation and every Christian on the planet would change his belief to the new dogma without a second thought, if only because they need to feel that they are more than just a speck of dust in a massive universe.

What do I think of Christians? I don't like how irrational they are. But they're just people, and nobody is perfect. It's not people I have problems with, it's Christianity itself, along with what it forces people to do to each other. I hate very little in this world, but if there's one thing that deserves my wrath, I would have to say that it's Christianity. More people have suffered for Christianity than for any other idea, and what did it get them? If they're lucky, their name was written in a book. If I had to kill a billion people to wipe out religion, I would. That's probably the only reason I would ever hurt another human being. Believe me, it's better than the future centuries of torture and pain many people will probably feel just so you can say that God loves you, me, and everyone else. I find it disgusting that people can even involve themselves with an idea that has caused so much suffering.

I love everyone just like you, but I don't have to rationalize it. I live my life as a model citizen in society, as an intellectual in an America that doesn't accept (and even despises) intellectuals. I am an atheist because I know that I know absolutely nothing about the universe (Wait! How can I know that?), and I'm not afraid to admit it. Are you?

You know those bumper stickers that say "What Would Jesus Do?" I think they totally rock. Jesus was a model human being, a masterfully-charismatic man with great ideas. I think Jesus would tell people to think for themselves and believe whatever they wanted as long as they came to their own conclusions just like him. Adopting Jesus' ideas just he believed them is very easy to rationalize, but that doesn't make it right. Maybe God is whatever you make it when you've formed your own ideas, and not when someone else forms them for you. Look up to Jesus because he was a free thinker and try to be like him. To accept the establishment was not Jesus' way. If you truly want to be like him, form your own conclusions, don't just accept what's put in front of you. Maybe that's his real message.

Maybe I should major in philosophy instead of musical performance . What do you think?

Actually I don't mind any religion in fact cult = religion because the technical definition of a cult and a religion is a bunch of people who think the same or VERY similar ways. Cults just tend to be less popular religions and some of them are actually quite plausible like The Opus Dei. It's considered a cult but they are the only ones TRULY spreading the work of God and the Teachings of Christ. Christ's teachings basically were Robin Hood's morals without the stealing. Give to the poor and help them out. Look at all the Christ did, he rescued whores from Damnation and helped the poor. Look what we do now, almost nothing.

Then there are Christian crazies *cough Bush! cough* who claim that God told them to liberate the Iraqi people in a "vision". In fact the crazy in question said this in a large public speech.

Well there's my 10 cents and if this offends anyone then you can go shove it because I'm excerising my First Amendment Rights.

I think a Christian is equal to a Jew is equal to a Muslim is equal to Hindu etc. etc. Why? Because we're all human. And Nozomu, anyone that lets blind faith dictate or even influence what they decide is irrational.

Everyone is irrational. That's human nature. But striving to be as rational as possible despite my nature is, in my opinion, worthwhile use of my time on this planet. I think the same goes for everyone.

Ah, but would you rather be more rational or more righteous?

Rationalization is incomparable to righteousness, because righteousness is very easy to interpret as anything you want it to be. Being rational, however, always means the same thing.

I mean - trying to help people out, etc.

And our rationalization may be different from other rationalizations out there. Logic is as relevant as righteousness.

In righteousness I mean courteous, helpful, etc. You get the drift.

scientific data? Half of any religon is believing, not seeing. There is no scientific data, and it varies from person to person on how religon influences your life. For example, I had a speech impediment when I was younger so I didn't speak much, but when I learned that Moses had one as well it gave me a bit more courage. There are also a lot of bible verses that I base my life philosophy on, but you seem to be pretty close-minded to the idea of getting answers from the bible.


mmm...as part of my faith, I've realized that I'm not supposed to know everything, and the group you are applying this statement to is a very small ammount.


YOu know, I've always wondered if maybe God is who you make it. I can't exactly explain it though...


How much of a difference is there in the two?



Than can't it also be worthwile to strive to get a perfect relationship with a God who we betrayed eons ago?

See, there's the arrogance of Christianity. You claim that you don't know everything, but that statement implies that you at least know something. What gave you that idea? What makes you trust your own perception so much?


Not if there's no evidence that that God exists. Then it's a waste.

I'd like to add that not all christians are 'crazies'. We are rational, and most of us are humble.


That'ts like saying, prove evolution with The bible. (Yes it could be possible, but not very plausible.)


But we cant, adding to the evidence for, rather than against it.


Oh, and faith is exactly that, Blind. Believing in somthing that you may not necesarily have any proof exists/is possible.