Report, edit, etc...Posted by indecisiveman on 2005-03-13 at 23:04:46
He has a plan for us. He wants us to realize who He is and what he did for us. He did not HAVE to make us. It was only to see whether or not we would be loyal to Him or not. He also wanted us to feel the sorrow He felt for the death of His Son. I will phrase this the best I can. He knows what will happen yes, He wants US to know what we have done. Our mistakes, flaws, and everything else. So it is not that He didn't know how we would act. He wanted US to know how WE acted when told what to do and what would happen if we didn't. Is that clear enough? My wording sucks I know but it was the best explanation I could put into simple words, lol.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by ShadowBrood on 2005-03-13 at 23:12:01
QUOTE(Theoretical Human @ Mar 13 2005, 01:53 PM)
Suppose, say, Jim, lives his life never lieing, never stealing, never cheating, never hurting anyone else, and being kind, polite, and forgiveful. He sends money to charity, and lives humbly without excess. Jim is an atheist and always has been. Where does he go? Most Christians I've talked to have said that an atheist will go to hell. But what do you think? By the way, I'd like this not to become another "Your beliefs are wrong" "No, they're right, you're going to hell for not believing in what I believe" conversation. Please, if you're really anti-religion, don't post here.
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I'd say Jim goes to heaven as the teachings of Jesus tell us to do exactly what Jim is doing. Religions are now interpretted as you need to believe. Now that's not right because I know people who believe and they lie and steal like it was a necessity.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by indecisiveman on 2005-03-13 at 23:14:48
I think you are stereotyping now. Just because you "believe" in God does NOT mean you will follow His commands. Gosh people I am getting irritated that I repeat this every damn time it comes up. read the previous posts for crying out loud. Ok I know I need to calm down. he would not go to heaven because he doesn't even believe in God. Without God, how will you be saved? Well anyways, read the previous posts before I get even angrier.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2005-03-14 at 02:22:47
OK since I'm going back on topic becuase I believe the creater of this topic asked for it not to be a debate I think that if you don't beleive in god you don't go to hell you just go no where, kinda like a ghost but you have no form and you can't move and you are blind, deaf, and dumb. If you do believe in god then you go to heaven which I think is sort a like a happy retirement from living where you can choose to be reborn or not and that you are happy. And if your a sinning-mother-foocker, then you go to HELL! You go to hell and you DIE!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by indecisiveman on 2005-03-14 at 03:01:50
Umm first off, you are already dead when you go to hell. So that is illogical. Second off, in the other topic you said you were catholic. Umm don't they teach you there is only heaven and hell? Or do they make some other thing up where you live in lala land. Ok that wasn't necessary. My point is you are starting to contradict yourself. You also said "if you believe in God you go to heaven. You sure about that? Last time I checked Saddam Hussein believed in a God. You think he is going to heaven? Well buddy think more on what you type because I know you probably just messed up your words on that one. Anyways at least you are asking questions, that is good.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2005-03-14 at 03:40:38
uggggg CATHOLISM DOES RESTRICT THOUGHT!!!!!!! We are taught that there is only a heaven or hell, but that doesn't restrict you from developing your own opinion on matters. Its no sin to be open and a thinker 
. And I know you are already dead when you go to hell, you OBVIOUSLY have never seen South Park when the character's Teacher (Mr. Garissen) (I think thats how you spell his name) Yells at them and yells "NO! You go to hell! You go to hell and you die!" (i.e. a joke) And you are obviously are so smart that you are dumb to see my simple point that if you believe in god then you will go to heaven, Im sooooo sorry that you couldn't see that I ment that if you lived a good, sin free life then you will go to heaven. I didn't know I had to babish you guys into writing down EVERYTHING. I just thought since your so smart you could figure out what I ment 
and wasn't this not suppose to be a debate?
. And I know you are already dead when you go to hell, you OBVIOUSLY have never seen South Park when the character's Teacher (Mr. Garissen) (I think thats how you spell his name) Yells at them and yells "NO! You go to hell! You go to hell and you die!" (i.e. a joke) And you are obviously are so smart that you are dumb to see my simple point that if you believe in god then you will go to heaven, Im sooooo sorry that you couldn't see that I ment that if you lived a good, sin free life then you will go to heaven. I didn't know I had to babish you guys into writing down EVERYTHING. I just thought since your so smart you could figure out what I ment and wasn't this not suppose to be a debate?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CaptainWill on 2005-03-14 at 11:10:41
Why should we have to believe in God to avoid going to hell?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-03-14 at 12:21:03
Damnit, i was out the entire afternoon yesterday 
If people have NEVER heard of christianity, then once they Die, they will be judged upon their actions. The one action that pretty much deems a person to hell 100% is to refuse to believe in God.
And babies fit this situation perfectly. THey brain's haven't fully developed as to be able to choose to believe in God or not. Same with their actions. They really dont know what they're doing and so they really aren't commiting sins on purpose. So yes, all babies are saved. God is a fair God, he's giving us the chance to live in paradise and be extremely happy; just to believe in him, simply put. But he just feels sad for those who chose not to and went to hell.
I think doing both is good
Believing in God is something we weren't coerced to do. Yes, we were all told to do so, but that again doesn't mean we have to be forced to do so.
The apple doesn't mean free thought as in you have a mind of ur own, but it's really meaning exposure to sin.
Christianity doesn't suppress free thought.
He wants us to love him and just build a good relationship with him
He knew it all along. he did know that man would choose to disobey him. He knows the future, he knows what he's ggoing to do.
It's the trinity thing as Firekame said
You really can only worship one God, just like you can only have one master. He's saying "You should not worship any other gods before God's presense."
No, i dont think catholicism restricts thought. Ur right it is no sin to be open and a thinker. Catholicism never said it was a naughty thing to do (i think). And i have no idea what u are saying after that...
ADDITION:
Because it is GOd who offered us the chance to be saved. He's the one who gave us the opportunity to go to heaven. We should be going to hell because we win 24/7. But for God so loved the world he sent jesus down to die for our sins. And just believe in him and we saved.
QUOTE(CaptainWill @ Mar 13 2005, 03:29 PM)
Where do the people who've never heard of Christianity go?
How is God omnibenevolent if these people get sent to hell? Babies who die before having knowledge of anything - does he send them to hell too?
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How is God omnibenevolent if these people get sent to hell? Babies who die before having knowledge of anything - does he send them to hell too?
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If people have NEVER heard of christianity, then once they Die, they will be judged upon their actions. The one action that pretty much deems a person to hell 100% is to refuse to believe in God.
And babies fit this situation perfectly. THey brain's haven't fully developed as to be able to choose to believe in God or not. Same with their actions. They really dont know what they're doing and so they really aren't commiting sins on purpose. So yes, all babies are saved. God is a fair God, he's giving us the chance to live in paradise and be extremely happy; just to believe in him, simply put. But he just feels sad for those who chose not to and went to hell.
QUOTE(CaptainWill @ Mar 13 2005, 04:37 PM)
Have you never questioned your faith? I know it's off topic, but I was just wondering.
Wouldn't it better be free to speculate on the origins of the Universe and so on rather than believe something because you were told to?
Think of it as an Exodus situation:
I'm the snake. You're Eve. Free thought is the apple.
As you can see from this parallel of Exodus, one of Christianity's basic principles is to suppress free thought and independent attempts at explaining life's mysteries.
I disagree with that principle. I don't think that I should go to hell for it.
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Wouldn't it better be free to speculate on the origins of the Universe and so on rather than believe something because you were told to?
Think of it as an Exodus situation:
I'm the snake. You're Eve. Free thought is the apple.
As you can see from this parallel of Exodus, one of Christianity's basic principles is to suppress free thought and independent attempts at explaining life's mysteries.
I disagree with that principle. I don't think that I should go to hell for it.
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I think doing both is good
Believing in God is something we weren't coerced to do. Yes, we were all told to do so, but that again doesn't mean we have to be forced to do so.
The apple doesn't mean free thought as in you have a mind of ur own, but it's really meaning exposure to sin.
QUOTE(CaptainWill @ Mar 13 2005, 05:24 PM)
I gave an example. I used Exodus, for crying out loud! I thought that you might understand it better if I used a Biblical example of how Christianity suppresses free thought.
Here's my argument in its most simple form:
- God wants us to be ignorant, obedient servants.
- I don't like that.
- I don't want to be a part of something that I don't like.
- I don't think that it's fair for me to 'go to hell' just for that.
How did you question your faith, by the way, and what made you sure that it was correct?
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Here's my argument in its most simple form:
- God wants us to be ignorant, obedient servants.
- I don't like that.
- I don't want to be a part of something that I don't like.
- I don't think that it's fair for me to 'go to hell' just for that.
How did you question your faith, by the way, and what made you sure that it was correct?
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Christianity doesn't suppress free thought.
He wants us to love him and just build a good relationship with him
QUOTE(Nozomu @ Mar 13 2005, 07:32 PM)
How can God be omniscient if He didn't know whether or not man would choose to obey His rules? If He was all-powerful, He wouldn't have needed a test, he would already know the outcome. So by that logic, God is fallible. The idea of the infallibility of God also casts some interesting shadows on the issue of free will, but that's a whole different can o' worms.
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He knew it all along. he did know that man would choose to disobey him. He knows the future, he knows what he's ggoing to do.
QUOTE(SpaceBoy2000 @ Mar 13 2005, 08:33 PM)
...
If Jesus is the Son of God, it wouldn't make sense for him to be God as well. So therefore, that means that Jesus and God exists. Now, isn't the first commandment "Thou shalt have none other gods before me."? Christians worship Jesus as their Lord, but would that be placing Jesus before God, and therefore committing a sin?
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If Jesus is the Son of God, it wouldn't make sense for him to be God as well. So therefore, that means that Jesus and God exists. Now, isn't the first commandment "Thou shalt have none other gods before me."? Christians worship Jesus as their Lord, but would that be placing Jesus before God, and therefore committing a sin?
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It's the trinity thing as Firekame said
QUOTE(SpaceBoy2000 @ Mar 13 2005, 09:09 PM)
Okay, just to invoke more controversial discussion, I'll do something stupid!
Okay, it says "Thou shalt not worship any Gods before thee.", not "Thou shalt not worship any other Gods". Wouldn't that mean that God is saying, "As long as you worship me above all other gods, you're fine". So wouldn't it then be alright to worship other gods as well, so long as you God as the almighty?
I told you I'd do something stupid.
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Okay, it says "Thou shalt not worship any Gods before thee.", not "Thou shalt not worship any other Gods". Wouldn't that mean that God is saying, "As long as you worship me above all other gods, you're fine". So wouldn't it then be alright to worship other gods as well, so long as you God as the almighty?
I told you I'd do something stupid.
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You really can only worship one God, just like you can only have one master. He's saying "You should not worship any other gods before God's presense."
QUOTE(S.T.A.R.S-Chris @ Mar 14 2005, 02:40 AM)
uggggg CATHOLISM DOES RESTRICT THOUGHT!!!!!!! We are taught that there is only a heaven or hell, but that doesn't restrict you from developing your own opinion on matters. Its no sin to be open and a thinker . And I know you are already dead when you go to hell, you OBVIOUSLY have never seen South Park when the character's Teacher (Mr. Garissen) (I think thats how you spell his name) Yells at them and yells "NO! You go to hell! You go to hell and you die!" (i.e. a joke) And you are obviously are so smart that you are dumb to see my simple point that if you believe in god then you will go to heaven, Im sooooo sorry that you couldn't see that I ment that if you lived a good, sin free life then you will go to heaven. I didn't know I had to babish you guys into writing down EVERYTHING. I just thought since your so smart you could figure out what I ment
and wasn't this not suppose to be a debate?
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. And I know you are already dead when you go to hell, you OBVIOUSLY have never seen South Park when the character's Teacher (Mr. Garissen) (I think thats how you spell his name) Yells at them and yells "NO! You go to hell! You go to hell and you die!" (i.e. a joke) And you are obviously are so smart that you are dumb to see my simple point that if you believe in god then you will go to heaven, Im sooooo sorry that you couldn't see that I ment that if you lived a good, sin free life then you will go to heaven. I didn't know I had to babish you guys into writing down EVERYTHING. I just thought since your so smart you could figure out what I ment and wasn't this not suppose to be a debate?
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No, i dont think catholicism restricts thought. Ur right it is no sin to be open and a thinker. Catholicism never said it was a naughty thing to do (i think). And i have no idea what u are saying after that...
ADDITION:
QUOTE
Why should we have to believe in God to avoid going to hell?
Because it is GOd who offered us the chance to be saved. He's the one who gave us the opportunity to go to heaven. We should be going to hell because we win 24/7. But for God so loved the world he sent jesus down to die for our sins. And just believe in him and we saved.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2005-03-14 at 16:48:15
In the second part of my response about the south park thing I was stating that I knew you died first then went to hell. A guy above my post didn't understand my joke that came from south park.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mune'R0x on 2005-03-14 at 16:57:48
Augh... So much ready... Not good for brain...
Anyways, if "God" creates us all and all that crap, why doesn't he create everyone to believe in him? Instead he just creates someone that needs to see facts to believe something instead of just believing from faith and sends them to Hell when they die? That's a bit messed up don't ya think?
Anyways, if "God" creates us all and all that crap, why doesn't he create everyone to believe in him? Instead he just creates someone that needs to see facts to believe something instead of just believing from faith and sends them to Hell when they die? That's a bit messed up don't ya think?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by indecisiveman on 2005-03-14 at 18:25:55
Chris you REALLY need to calm down. I am a Christian: I don't watch those kinds of shows. I am disappointed that you "claim" to be Catholic and yet your actions show that you are most likely just going because your parents do. Now of course I could be wrong but what religious person watchjes that kind of a show and then talks about it on a Christian discussion? Not a very good one if you ask me. I also knew that you had made your own opinion about wandering the earth. I was merely showing you that it was off-topic. And Kahoona, that question is answered in a previous post. Look it up and if you still don't understand I'll be happy to tell you in simpler words. Alright people, stay on topic and calm down.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CaptainWill on 2005-03-14 at 19:02:02
*CaptainWill bangs head against desk repeatedly
Quick, lads, we've got a fundamentalist on our hands!
Lock the doors! Hammer large pieces of crooked wood against the windows! This religious invasion is far worse than we imagined!
Seriously though, you're being incredibly suppressed by your faith, Ned Flanders...sorry, I mean indecisiveman.
I wonder where that little slip came from?
Quick, lads, we've got a fundamentalist on our hands!
Lock the doors! Hammer large pieces of crooked wood against the windows! This religious invasion is far worse than we imagined!
Seriously though, you're being incredibly suppressed by your faith, Ned Flanders...sorry, I mean indecisiveman.
I wonder where that little slip came from?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by indecisiveman on 2005-03-14 at 19:42:57
I am sorry that I want to go to heaven and you are fine with burning in hell. I hope you will forgive me?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by indecisiveman on 2005-03-14 at 19:43:14
I am sorry that I want to go to heaven and you are fine with burning in hell. I hope you will forgive me?
BTW: I am choosing to follow this religion. No one is FORCING me to do this. I want to make it to heaven, unlike you people who argue over the dumbest things. *Sighs* anways. I will calm down but seriously guys stop making dumb jokes.
BTW: I am choosing to follow this religion. No one is FORCING me to do this. I want to make it to heaven, unlike you people who argue over the dumbest things. *Sighs* anways. I will calm down but seriously guys stop making dumb jokes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kame on 2005-03-14 at 20:27:25
QUOTE(CaptainWill @ Mar 14 2005, 05:02 PM)
*CaptainWill bangs head against desk repeatedly
Quick, lads, we've got a fundamentalist on our hands!
Lock the doors! Hammer large pieces of crooked wood against the windows! This religious invasion is far worse than we imagined!
Seriously though, you're being incredibly suppressed by your faith, Ned Flanders...sorry, I mean indecisiveman.
I wonder where that little slip came from?
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Quick, lads, we've got a fundamentalist on our hands!
Lock the doors! Hammer large pieces of crooked wood against the windows! This religious invasion is far worse than we imagined!
Seriously though, you're being incredibly suppressed by your faith, Ned Flanders...sorry, I mean indecisiveman.
I wonder where that little slip came from?
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hey now, you don't see me flaming you for your beliefs. cut it out; this topic is giving me enough grief as it is
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CaptainWill on 2005-03-14 at 20:56:53
That wasn't all flaming. I simply tried to infer that indecisiveman's freedom of thought was being suppressed by his desire to adhere rigidly and literally to the scriptures of Christianity, because he fears that he'll burn in hell if he wont.
Here's news for you: The conventional ideas of Heaven and Hell were fabricated by the Catholic Church to tighten their control on people. If you're fearful of something then you're less likely to question it. That was their logic.
Scriptural references to Heaven and Hell are purely metaphorical in my opinion, and used to the same purpose. I don't remember if Jesus himself ever mentioned Hell, or if it was just his disciples.
ADDITION:
Well, they're not 'the dumbest things' to us. We just want to find out more about the Universe. If they seem dumb to you then you're just closing your mind off to them because it's easy.
It's much harder to try to unravel and sort out these 'dumb' things. It's easy to just believe in God and ignore anything else that contradicts your views.
Would you agree that God is basically saying:
"Be ignorant and I shall accept you with open arms."
I would. Like I said about Exodus before: God wants us to be ignorant. He tells us not to eat the apple because it gives knowledge and an understanding of what is right and wrong.
The message of Christianity is clear - 'Be like Adam and Eve were before the fall - ignorance is bliss.'
I'll stop now because I'm offending people, but please - I can't abide extremism. I don't mind moderate theism, but when it gets fundamentalist and intolerant of the views of others...
Here's news for you: The conventional ideas of Heaven and Hell were fabricated by the Catholic Church to tighten their control on people. If you're fearful of something then you're less likely to question it. That was their logic.
Scriptural references to Heaven and Hell are purely metaphorical in my opinion, and used to the same purpose. I don't remember if Jesus himself ever mentioned Hell, or if it was just his disciples.
ADDITION:
QUOTE(indecisiveman @ Mar 15 2005, 12:43 AM)
I am sorry that I want to go to heaven and you are fine with burning in hell. I hope you will forgive me?
BTW: I am choosing to follow this religion. No one is FORCING me to do this. I want to make it to heaven, unlike you people who argue over the dumbest things. *Sighs* anways. I will calm down but seriously guys stop making dumb jokes.
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BTW: I am choosing to follow this religion. No one is FORCING me to do this. I want to make it to heaven, unlike you people who argue over the dumbest things. *Sighs* anways. I will calm down but seriously guys stop making dumb jokes.
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Well, they're not 'the dumbest things' to us. We just want to find out more about the Universe. If they seem dumb to you then you're just closing your mind off to them because it's easy.
It's much harder to try to unravel and sort out these 'dumb' things. It's easy to just believe in God and ignore anything else that contradicts your views.
Would you agree that God is basically saying:
"Be ignorant and I shall accept you with open arms."
I would. Like I said about Exodus before: God wants us to be ignorant. He tells us not to eat the apple because it gives knowledge and an understanding of what is right and wrong.
The message of Christianity is clear - 'Be like Adam and Eve were before the fall - ignorance is bliss.'
I'll stop now because I'm offending people, but please - I can't abide extremism. I don't mind moderate theism, but when it gets fundamentalist and intolerant of the views of others...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by indecisiveman on 2005-03-14 at 21:04:42
CaaptainWill, I think you have gone over the top. I am not trying to say what you think is "dumb". I am merely saying what you are saying(the whole Ned Flanders comment) is dumb. It wasn't necessary and was WAY off-topic. If you want to debate Chrstianity make your own topic. This isn't a debate.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kame on 2005-03-14 at 21:11:42
QUOTE(CaptainWill @ Mar 14 2005, 06:56 PM)
I would. Like I said about Exodus before: God wants us to be ignorant. He tells us not to eat the apple because it gives knowledge and an understanding of what is right and wrong.
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And you're saying I'm ignorant? I said three times that Adam and Eve are in Genesis not Exodus
QUOTE
Scriptural references to Heaven and Hell are purely metaphorical in my opinion, and used to the same purpose. I don't remember if Jesus himself ever mentioned Hell, or if it was just his disciples.
QUOTE
Matthew 5:
22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Matthew 10:28 - And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Matthew 10:28 - And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Not to mention the fact that God is Jesus so any mention of hell is from Jesus already.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by indecisiveman on 2005-03-14 at 21:16:11
WOOT. FireKame is back on the scene. Well yes once again I didn't even realize he said Exodus and not Genesis. My bad once again. Anways, my freedom of thought is NOT suppressed by my religion. And who said I am strict on the scriptures? I know I didn't.(or did I....whoops) Well if I said those words show me the quote. I choose to follow them.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2005-03-15 at 00:50:19
I didn't know I was out of control, sorry I didn't know I needed to calm down??? I don't know where that came from, also I think its bad that you think (indesiciveman) that its bad to watch curtian shows. I take my religion and try to follow it by still having a fun life. It was a mere joke, and thats bad? I do take it personal that you seem to be talking shit about me in these posts about how bad I am at following this religion. Im sorry Im not a PRO at it like you, AT LEAST I TRY! God is not going to send me to hell for trying to be a good follower who is sin free. You are taking this discussion waayyy too seriously, I would rather have a descussion rather then a debate beucase I know my knowledge on this religion ain't the sharpest tool in the shed. (please understand what I ment by that becuase its ppretty simple). Also remember that we are both christains who both believe in Jesus and the same god, we are on the same page, I respect that you have a god opinion on Catholism but that doesn't mean Catholism is bad, in my view we are both Christians so please see that the next time you post!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mr.Kirbycode774 on 2005-03-15 at 00:56:16
QUOTE(Theoretical Human @ Mar 13 2005, 12:53 PM)
Suppose, say, Jim, lives his life never lieing, never stealing, never cheating, never hurting anyone else, and being kind, polite, and forgiveful. He sends money to charity, and lives humbly without excess. Jim is an atheist and always has been. Where does he go? Most Christians I've talked to have said that an atheist will go to hell. But what do you think? By the way, I'd like this not to become another "Your beliefs are wrong" "No, they're right, you're going to hell for not believing in what I believe" conversation. Please, if you're really anti-religion, don't post here.
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Excuse me, but please answer this one question: is this Jim whom you speak of, is he just a good person, or is he a sinless person?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-03-15 at 01:00:59
QUOTE(`BiG~kAhOoNa` @ Mar 14 2005, 03:57 PM)
[center]Augh... So much ready... Not good for brain...
Anyways, if "God" creates us all and all that crap, why doesn't he create everyone to believe in him? Instead he just creates someone that needs to see facts to believe something instead of just believing from faith and sends them to Hell when they die? That's a bit messed up don't ya think?[/center]
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Anyways, if "God" creates us all and all that crap, why doesn't he create everyone to believe in him? Instead he just creates someone that needs to see facts to believe something instead of just believing from faith and sends them to Hell when they die? That's a bit messed up don't ya think?[/center]
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He doesn't want us to be like "robots." He wants us to freely choose, not be made like servants right away. He wants to let all his children/angels freely choose whether to stand by him or not.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by indecisiveman on 2005-03-15 at 01:15:03
Well Chris, I am Christian. You are catholic. Big difference there pal. And I am not saying I don't live a free life. I saw that show once and decided for myself it was beyond retarded. I have a VERY free life. I want to stay close to scripture so that when I meet people like you I can defend my religion. You(to me) falsely represent your religion and it makes me angry. I know a lot of good Catholic people but you my friend are not one of them. I suggest you take a look at the Christian ways. I belive they would suit you MUCH better. Anyways, I don't wish to say more on this topic. Unless it is said by someone who knows what they mean.(just to name a few CaptainWill, FireKame, MillenniumArmy, Mr.Kirbycode774, meh sure there are many more.) You people keep posting your thoughts.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Nozomu on 2005-03-15 at 03:07:37
Doesn't God already know what we're going to choose? From what I know of the Christian God, He knows every choice we'll ever make before we're born. To admit otherwise is to admit God's fallibility. That doesn't sound like a free choice to me.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by indecisiveman on 2005-03-15 at 10:56:17
Nozumo that question was already answered. Anyways, I am tired of people TRYING to poke holes in Christianity. Now I WILL poke holes in Catholicism. For everything you guys have tried to say about Christianity I have provided a Biblical scripture which obviously styates why I believe that. Now I want Biblical scriptures for you people. One, where in the Bible does it say you sprinkle water for baptism? 2. Where in the Bible does it say to praise the saints? 3. Where in the Bible does it say to praise Mary? 4. Where in the Bible does it say to ask some guy how much to ask for forgiveness? Anyways the list goes on. So answer those first.