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the big bang theory is not possible unless the big bang theory isnt the begining of the universe but the begining of a universe. Because if something can be squeezed into an atom then it must be not very dense to do that. Once it is an atom, it is pretty dense. The scientists say that the big bang theory is physically impossible. There are many ways the big bang theor has been thought of. Such as nothing exploding. something as small as an atom exploding. Well physically the universe can only get so dense. The universe can only get so small. The universe can get so heavy. I am not saying that science is incorrect but i am saying that this theory is wrong. If it is a beginning of a universe then there are many more universes around this single universe. Then what if there are things which mean many universes which mean that there are many more things. Like so: continent to planet to solar system to galexy to universe to higher then universe or dimension to someting that holds the dimensions.

I meant to post this a while ago, but SEN went all wierd so I couldn't.
So it might be outdated, I'm compleatly lost so I would have no way of telling.
Here it is:


I agree with this bit: "I do not have a particular theory, and prefer to leave the problem of 'how did the Universe begin' as an 'open question.' "

I think such complex things are currently difficult to explain (but if you read Scientific American or something of the sort, then you'll see they do a pretty good job of explaining most of the theories). My current pet theory is basically this:
According to quantum mechanics (or something of the sort), anything is possible, just most things are very very imporbable. So in the infinite amount of time before the univierse existed, something happened, agaist all possibility a peice of space and a piece of mass sprung into existance. Becuase everything Outside the newly formed mass was Empty, the piece of mass and space exspoded.
So basically the chance of the universe being created was infinitly small, but becuase the amount of time before the univierse being created was infinitly large, those two infinite thingys canceled each other out to form what acutally happened.

Don't know why I though of that. It's most likely wrong.

Anyway that mp) guy who's catholic (the one with the devil giving the finger for their avatar), needs to post again so we can have a greater variety of contrasting opinions and such.

Is it just me or is the thread getting off topic. I believe all the religous histories say nothing about if god created the universe. So why are we pondering about it in this thread?

Making a point: This is only on topic if people are trying to prove scientists are wrong, or god couldn't have just come here like anything else. Which in it's own term seems like spam, but why am i posting this i don't even care!

My Piece: Scientists need more research before they print things out. People just try and put down the ideas of the universe laid out by scientists to try and make people think "Omg, scientists are wrong again! The Bloody Bastards!" But a scientist is doing the same thing we are doing right now. Getting active, exploring information, discussing about the inmformation, and making a conclusion to share with a community of people. The only difference is we are not as big time as they are. They've been doing it longer, and have alot more tools and knowledge. So i won't go and say science is right or wrong about these theories, because trying to point out things about scientific theories, is like trying to point out the goal of the american government(hurt the blacks, give money to the white, take all the oil, save the earth, all of the previous things backwards.... )
All I'm saying is WHO KNOWS! Let's just keep paving the way through to information, and keep making conclusions until we finally have the right one(which most likely wouldn't come until the end of everything, or something).

Also: The link didn't work.

Well, how do you know it's impossible to fit it all into one spot?
Look at a normal star.
Then compress it into the smallest that is allowed for whatever it is(atom, quark, etc), until it becomes so dense that it just can't be that thing, and becomes something else that's smaller entirely, and thus capable of becoming more dense.
Supposedly, black holes have zero volume, meaning that they take up no space at all. They are pure gravity, pretty much.

At the most basic level, NOTHING makes sense. Tell me how gravity works, what exactly makes it work? Oh, right... there is no reason, it simply is. How does a different number of particles generate matter with different properties? Some things should just be considered given, and then be quiet about it. The existence of the Universe is one of those things that doesn't need to thought about. So, why don't we talk about making a cure for cancer instead?

As true as that is, we do not know at what level things are spontaneous and arbitrary— if it ever is, and as history teaches us, the farther down we get, the more we can use knowledge as to how things work to further our technology.
That's why we should bother about it.
As for us as individual people discussing it, it's interesting

Sure, why not? Why not believe in some "creationary force?" Can you magically explain how matter came to be in the first place? According to our laws of physics... everything is just impossible.

Sorry buy God dose not exist because then where did the dinosours come from?
What was he busy eating dinosours and just dumped them on the Earth, why did we find their bones? What about the humans way past 10,000 years ago? they don't look like they were the way they were described as. The big bang theory is most likely to be wrong, even though planets and things drift and drift away.... Evolution is true, why? If it is true then their is no god and its all about natural selection and geting down and dirty! and just change to adapt to the enviroment around it. God dose not exist, becuase of Evolution and time.

God might have created evolution. Don't be so damned black/white.

Also, how do you know God didn't plant that evidence?
How do you know that this "proof" wasn't created by random chance, much as atheists like you believe life itself was?
It's just as likely that some bone structeres were created through a freak accident as life was, and just happened to evolve into something that is physicaly weak as hell with hardly any advantages over other creatures, and managed to live long enough to produce all that we have.

Your belief in god depends on the knowledge you hold.

For example, if you had read the messages in www.rael.org

you would probably forget about god and believe in extra-terrestrials.

In the Bible it says that The earth/universe was made in 7 days. Now that doesnt neccesarily mean earth days, it could mean millions of years to him. On the "5th day" i believe, he made the animals of the earth. Now the bible doesn't specifically say what kind of animals were made nor did it specify that the animals were just like our nowadays animals. So when it said he made the animals of the earth, that's probably when he created the dinosaurs. And then when his "7th day" came, he destroyed all the dinosaurs by casting down a huge meteor onto Earth (and they say on the discovery channel that this actually occured. They found proof of it in the carribean sea) and then he created Adam. And also the bible also doesn't say Adam looked just like us humans right now; he probably could've been a miget as well.

And if that's your only reason for not believe in God's existence...

God is merely a reason for existance, an excuse for all of our flaws, and someone to fall back on when we up.

If you need that sort of thing in your life, by all means, have faith in him. But the fact is, God is something created by humanity, which I don't believe in.

No, I don't believe there's a God at this point in my life.

I don't get it. Why are there so many people who don't believe in god but can't put up a logical reason for it?

Millinium, I have a question for you, do you take the bible literally or only as a guide for your life? This question applies to the whole thing, not just parts of it.

I refuse to answer that question because you spelled my name wrong

jk, well, i take it literally, but not as literally as if I use it for my only source of knowledge and reprimand anything else (like science, etc). But i also do keep in mind that the people that wrote these books are from like thousands of years ago, so basically their mindsets and/or PoV are a bit old fashioned and are different from ours today. We live in a precocious world and sometimes it changes the ways we are physically and mentally. They also know nothing about science or evolution so their writings will mention nothing about it nor do they censure it. So yes i do take it literally.

I dunno if you have read Inherit the Wind or know about the Scope Trials or w/e, but i'm not like them. They take the Bible TOO literally, and sometimes they go beyond it. They think that anything that isn't biblical related is equivocal and fallacious and you will be deemed as the devil if you ever teach/comprehend those things. They also add their own funky junk to their religion, just like catholics. Those are the people who rebuke evolution, darwism, science, etc. Those people can't think beyond their own world. I'm not like them

EDIT: And yes i also use it as a guide.

What's your logical reason then? You don't believe in God because he can't be proved to exist?

Yea, maybe, but what he probably means by illogical is probably saying reasons which are completely irrevelant and have nothing to do with God's existence or something like that.

I don't believe in a god that is described in any bibles nor any old works. I can accept a higher power, but not as a "lord" or anything. However, if such higher power is so powerful that he is beyond laws of nature, then I will not believe in such a thing.

I already believe in extra-terrestrials.

Could you quote these messages you're talking about?

Well, you could find a story and a complete description of the elohim (The aliens on whom the Raelians worship) check their website at

www.rael.org

they have a lots of free e-books in there

Why is it that aliens are always presented as humanoids? Sure, we can except that in hundreds of billions of stars we're most likely not alone, but why can't people think of anything beyond a man with a big grey head?! I think aliens would most likely be something alot cooler then humanoid.

Or a lot more mundane - like a single-celled silicon based organism.

Or perhaps something that cannot yet fly through space in spaceships.
Why does everyone imagine them as being technologicaly advanced? Any that exist within a few quadrillion lightyears could be equivelantly primitive as we would see a large, muscled, hunched-over human with a stupid expression, bad teeth, makes grunting noises, and has a club over its shoulder.

Well, yeah, there could be races out here with similar space technology to us, wondering whether there is any other life in the Universe...

I think we'd find that aliens' looks would depend on their environment: If they live on a gas giant then they might be floaty and 'bag-like' to cope with the gigantic gravitational pressure, for example.

On the freak occurance that life would spring to life elsewhere, it would be pretty difficult to evolve into an intelligent species.

I for one don't believe in aliens. For starters, why would God create human-like creatures and not allow them to go to heaven? It clearly says in the BIble God gave His ONLY begotten Son, so that the people of earth would be saved. It later goes on to state that only those who live on earth can be saved. Anyways that is why I personally don't believe in "aliens".